Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[Bell]

My skin is thicker than it once was and I know GrayIce isn't being serious.

You were chain sawing for Mastina and setting up conditionals so that you'd only vote Mastina if X was scum. I know that as scum you probably weren't too interested in the case I made against you, but it was there.

[MathBlade]

My skin is thicker than it once was and I know GrayIce isn't being serious.

You were chain sawing for Mastina and setting up conditionals so that you'd only vote Mastina if X was scum. I know that as scum you probably weren't too interested in the case I made against you, but it was there.

If you mean with Titus, I was thinking Titus was scum and Mastina was scum only in certain instances.

Knowing Mastina scum I look in those small instances. Namely again Titus and the Cakez wagon. This isn’t a chainsaw because A) I am not scum and B) it’s what I believed and C) The conditional doesn’t attack anyone.

Eg I only vote Pooky if LLD is scum is not an attack on LLD or Pooky.

[Bell]

The conditional defense of Mastina by arguing that we must go in the order of A to B and B to C. By arguing this way you soft defended and provided an excuse not to vote her without at least securing one miselimination beforehand. This isn't hard.

[Bell]

In addition I would like someone to explain why Mastina decided to make the argument was town based on a very obscure bit of Titus knowledge.
As sum she had the answer right in front of her.

Mastina often creates arguments around appeals to authority and in part, given how close the Titus wagon was from happening. I believe Mastina was just trying to build some of her authority by being "right on Titus"
It's not my fault the scum team missed the boat/were chickens who wouldn't out one of their number to get her wagon done. They deserved to lose Mastina because they were clutching their own status and positions.

[Bell]

I'm totally not projecting.
And also, scum team, I don't mean it and I'm sorry and I'm sure you're trying your best. I just have a bad habit of trying to demoralize you by talking to you directly to make you feel bad.

[Prism]

Mastina often creates arguments around appeals to authority and in part, given how close the Titus wagon was from happening. I believe Mastina was just trying to build some of her authority by being "right on Titus"
It's not my fault the scum team missed the boat/were chickens who wouldn't out one of their number to get her wagon done. They deserved to lose Mastina because they were clutching their own status and positions.

[Battle Mage]

It's called being passionate. Your mom enjoyed it last night.

It’s called please obey site rules while displaying passion.

shit like that is uncalled for dude.

QFT

[MathBlade]

Mastina often creates arguments around appeals to authority and in part, given how close the Titus wagon was from happening. I believe Mastina was just trying to build some of her authority by being "right on Titus"
It's not my fault the scum team missed the boat/were chickens who wouldn't out one of their number to get her wagon done. They deserved to lose Mastina because they were clutching their own status and positions.

I agree with that this is true in general but not true here.
It’s a trick I often use as scum.
Eg X player does Y often as scum or scum often do Z thing. This is a logical fallacy.
Just because someone did something in the past doesn’t correlate to here.

Eg A slot machine not paying out the last 100 times...surely it’s “due”.

[SirCakez]

like if I am this wrong on my read then I'd rather invest that time into digging into other reads because obviously I need to reevaluate

Cakez, get out of the tunnel and vote Titus with us.

If you are her scumbuddy, this earns you lots of towncred. Lots and lots of towncred. We promise.
If you're town, well, do you really think she's flipping town? She read Mastina's ISO and is like 'oh crap'

talk to me about Bork I'm not even voting Pooky right now
Titus is a strong SR of mine but I don't feel like voting her rn does that much

This is really lazy imo and not really engaging with the content of bork's posts or the assertions he's made. The only one I've seen people take issue with was bork's skepticism of the mastina wagon and how he didn't rigorously go after it like a dog; I think he very much acted in accordance with that read and that not doing so more doggedly is a result of time constraint.

Him not wanting to interact with anybody is an eh point to begin with imo-he has been less explicitly cooperative, but has been extremely quick to call BS indiscriminately-but even if it were true it's a big +town flag, not a +scum one.

I don't think the content is bad I'm looking at tone more here

Also where is Tammy?

[Bell]

Mastina often creates arguments around appeals to authority and in part, given how close the Titus wagon was from happening. I believe Mastina was just trying to build some of her authority by being "right on Titus"
It's not my fault the scum team missed the boat/were chickens who wouldn't out one of their number to get her wagon done. They deserved to lose Mastina because they were clutching their own status and positions.

I agree with that this is true in general but not true here.
It’s a trick I often use as scum.
Eg X player does Y often as scum or scum often do Z thing. This is a logical fallacy.
Just because someone did something in the past doesn’t correlate to here.

Eg A slot machine not paying out the last 100 times...surely it’s “due”.

Your example is for clarifying independent events as being truly independent. That is if you flip a coin every time the odds are 1/2 if both sides weigh the same and we have a gamblers fallacy.

The issue with this is that these aren’t independent events. I’m specifically referring to marina and her preferences.
Slot machines don’t have habits. People do.

[Titus]

VLA Tuesday Wednesday

I'm spending 10-15 hours on the road tomorrow and I'm already very behind. This was almost a sub out request but I really want to try to finish.

[Titus]

Cakez is not a scumread. It's a PoE if Pooky is town. The votes don't make sense unless one of them is scum. I strongly think it's Pooky.

Titus, what exactly do you mean by this line.

Which votes do not make sense unless one of me and Cake is scum?

The end of day wagon does not make sense unless one of you or Cakez is scum.

If you and Cakez are both town, then we get a scenario that should not exist. Namely, an all town counterwagon to scum.

[MathBlade]

Mastina often creates arguments around appeals to authority and in part, given how close the Titus wagon was from happening. I believe Mastina was just trying to build some of her authority by being "right on Titus"
It's not my fault the scum team missed the boat/were chickens who wouldn't out one of their number to get her wagon done. They deserved to lose Mastina because they were clutching their own status and positions.

I agree with that this is true in general but not true here.
It’s a trick I often use as scum.
Eg X player does Y often as scum or scum often do Z thing. This is a logical fallacy.
Just because someone did something in the past doesn’t correlate to here.

Eg A slot machine not paying out the last 100 times...surely it’s “due”.

Your example is for clarifying independent events as being truly independent. That is if you flip a coin every time the odds are 1/2 if both sides weigh the same and we have a gamblers fallacy.

The issue with this is that these aren’t independent events. I’m specifically referring to marina and her preferences.
Slot machines don’t have habits. People do.

Different games are different events. A predisposition can inform your reads but isn’t the be all end all. Meta is a tool just like any other.

[MathBlade]

VLA Tuesday Wednesday

I'm spending 10-15 hours on the road tomorrow and I'm already very behind. This was almost a sub out request but I really want to try to finish.

Cakez is not a scumread. It's a PoE if Pooky is town. The votes don't make sense unless one of them is scum. I strongly think it's Pooky.

Titus, what exactly do you mean by this line.

Which votes do not make sense unless one of me and Cake is scum?

The end of day wagon does not make sense unless one of you or Cakez is scum.

If you and Cakez are both town, then we get a scenario that should not exist. Namely, an all town counterwagon to scum.

This is exactly why you’re probably scum.
It’s almost certainly not Pooky unless a hell of a coinkadink.
Dunn is possible but not probable.

You and/or Cakez makes sense
Especially how you don’t reevaluate here.

That’s why even though you are the harder to elim scum player (assuming you and Cakez are scum) because knowing if Cakez is scum is going to help a fuck ton.

[MathBlade]

I would vig Cakez omg I swear I can type English good lmao *

[Bell]

1.I'm saying you falsely compared my opinion to the gambler's fallacy. Which I don't think you can dispute.
2. Ye...yes? Meta is a tool with dubious efficacy. Though I have no idea what you mean when you say meta is a tool like any other tool. When...Er, a hammer and a screw driver for example are both tools for different functions so I have no idea what you're trying to say other than that, actually, your opinion is normal and not special in anyway!

Which yeah. I know?

[Prism]

If I vote anyone on the Cakez wagon today it is 100% going to be MathBlade lmao

[MathBlade]

1.I'm saying you falsely compared my opinion to the gambler's fallacy. Which I don't think you can dispute.
2. Ye...yes? Meta is a tool with dubious efficacy. Though I have no idea what you mean when you say meta is a tool like any other tool. When...Er, a hammer and a screw driver for example are both tools for different functions so I have no idea what you're trying to say other than that, actually, your opinion is normal and not special in anyway!

Which yeah. I know?

1. I agree. Not disputing that.
2. I believe your point about Mastina was a meta point. My point was this is an independent game. Say Mastina does what you said in 80% of her scum games (number pulled out of my ass). This is a new game/event. So distinct event. It doesn’t entirely preclude your point but I don’t like how Prism is treating it as “truth” and was trying to encourage caution as when I am scum I commonly drive people towards logically incorrect things similar to here.

@Prism okay then vote me. Then continue to elim on the Cakez wagon. Pretty sure there isn’t enough town derp to elim me but my elim imho is better than a random shot in the dark about who is bussing Mastina.

[MathBlade]

Like flipping me flips Titus or Cakez tomorrow so it’s not the worst thing but Titus or Cakez should go today.

[penguin_alien]

Afternoon Vote Count 2.04

Afternoon 2 will end in (expired on 2021-03-14 12:31:37)

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 votes to Bronze

MathBlade (1): Bell
Titus (5): DrippingGoofball, MathBlade, GreyICE, PookyTheMagicalBear, Battle Mage
borkjerfkin (2): Spiffeh, SirCakez
GreyICE (1): Prism
DrippingGoofball (2): Titus, Dunnstral

Not voting (3): Tammy, borkjerfkin, Lady Lambdadelta

Mod notes: Lady Lambdadelta is V/LA
Titus is V/LA until 3/11
22/70 pages used

[Prism]

This game is getting depressing with the same 6/7 players going in circles with the occasional spurts of Spiffeh/bork activity and some one liners from BM/Dunn. At this point we've got 48 pages for 4 days, plenty left over for us to keep talking in circles with no new voices jumping in.

I'm going to do something different tonight instead. Here's one thing I've appreciated about every player, dead or alive, in signup order.

Spoiler: sangres (hydra of fferyllt and Nachomamma8)

We townblocked! We voted scum! It ruled! I was really happy to link up early, ffery had strong reads and Nacho was, well, the Nacho whose posts I always frown at, but the degree to which we were able to work together was honestly a pleasant surprise. A+, 10/10, would do again, earn that UTR fearkill.

Spoiler: Tammy

I really enjoyed your early comments, both on other slots and in discussing the meta on me. You're incredibly perceptive and have a knack for communicating the inferences/patterns you see effectively. Also, the 311 song has been in my Spotify rotation lately.

Spoiler: borkjerfkin

YES KING call out the bullshit as you see it, with 0 regard for human life. hit em with the wall that leaves em stuck and speechless when called to deliver more. sangres target claim is genius if you're scum btw jesus christ

Spoiler: SirCakez

Much stronger play than I've seen from you across the board! While I may not be thrilled with the Pooky push, everything about your positioning on me/LLD and earlygame screamed town to me, and regardless of what you are the confidence you've brought to the game is such a step up

Spoiler: Kitty Trauma Team (hydra of Malakittens and kuribo)

Holy shit did I underestimate this hydra, completely thought you were going for easy push and couldn't back it up. I expected kuribo to be all emotion with little fundamental teeth. OH HELL NAW, great walls, great content, quickest turnaround from "Probably scum" to "Hard town" I have ever seen in my life. Every other time something like that happened it was because someone town did something too stupid to be scum, this is the rare exception where the sheer quality+quantity of content just made this obvious. Excellent shit.

Spoiler: Lady Lambdadelta

Straight up refusal to take anyone's shit, absolutely call me out for being toxic as hell. Don't mistake my distrust of your judgment at that time as disrespect for you broadly as a player; there's a reason I've asked for your help now that we've both calmed down and I'm in a bind. And it was 100% wrong of me to call your praise worthless: I am glad to have earned your respect early, I just struggle a lot with being able to accept praise and respect sitewide, as ffery and p_a both recently saw.

Spoiler: mastina

I thought the tell you identified in general was a good one, and respected the boldness to push me for it knowing you had a high chance of blowback. Had you had more time, things might not have wound up the way they did.

Spoiler: Bell

How did I go from perpetually annoyed/wanting to dodge you to posting 2680? Like I knew you were competent, and just wouldn't work with me for whatever reason, but the 180 here has been incredible and that mastina flip doesn't happen without you, period. I now see why peta was such a fan.

Spoiler: Spiffeh

Absolutely brilliant analysis and reads through and through, and right now you're the other major voice that imo is still constantly digging up new discussion points over going in circles. If you are scum you are playing to near-perfection, and the fact I'm even considering that possible is a testament to how skilled of a player you are. One of the most exciting things for me this game is seeing a Spiffeh post in Theme Park and excitedly opening the thread like it's Christmas morning.

Spoiler: GreyICE

I mean, you fuckin instantly leaped down mastina's throat for the same reason I did: refusing to engage with the rest of my play and shoving that "when you take Prism's play as a WHOLE" garbage. You weren't here at the end of the day, oh no, someone call the cops. Good shit and if I'm wrong please keep carrying me.

Spoiler: PookyTheMagicalBear

What the fuck are those wallposts, dude? The VCA, the progressions, all of it? I saw glimpses of this Pooky in Folly but jesus christ, playing out of your mind rn if you're scum and making it super obvious you're town otherwise. There is more than fluffy tonal spam in this stuffed bear.

Spoiler: Titus

This is a game that you've clearly struggled to stay engaged with, both for ingame and out of game reasons. I really admire that you've been determined to see it through rather than replace out, even if you haven't always been able to translate that into a ton of action. Sometimes, just playing the game is so mentally taxing that staying in really does take an incredible amount of tenacity, and I suspect this is one of those games for you. Thanks for pushing through.

Spoiler: MathBlade

Sheer WIM and determination is off the charts, yeah you've frustrated the hell out of me a lot but I have to respect that.

Spoiler: quiet

I really hope you're doing okay and come back! Your starting post-especially the vote on sangres-was wonderfully creative even if it didn't sell me you were town, and it can be easy to get overwhelmed by the table and outside forces regardless of alignment. You had unusually high expectations put on you as a new player, but these aren't a burden: they're a well-earned reward and something to push you to go further.

Spoiler: DGB

Just taking this slot, that was widely scumread, is already such a giant service to the table. We haven't really had time to do much this game, but I really enjoyed linking arms with you in going "What the fuck was the Vanilla Cop for?" at the end of 2181, and I did appreciate your humor after Day 2 when I wasn't quite so demoralized

Spoiler: Dunnstral

You've kept a level of cool this game that's impressive regardless of alignment, your succintness in getting your point across is impressive. While I often want more of your posting, it's rare that I read a oneliner from you and think it's lacking in perception.

Spoiler: Battle Mage

I went over this a bit ago, but this is not the same trolly/VI Battle Mage I saw in Xenoblade, this is BM 2.0 revved and reloaded. Ridiculously crisp posting regardless of alignment, your biggest crime is not fully explaining yourself but every explanation you do give is great. I literally don't understand how you play for so long but still shoot up in quality in 4 months other than just putting in more effort, but whatever it is good shit.

[Prism]

You know, this isn't really directly related to this game, but something that might be of interest to LLD, GreyICE, Nacho, DGB, etc.

I have been playing mafia for 11 years, ever since I was 13. While I never really played on MS before 2016, I grew up reading all of your games. I remember reading along with so, so many of all of your games growing up when I was 14/15. I remember reading along in the entire series of DEFCON games that have been referenced, though I missed 4.0. I still laugh at Cobalt's "Mickey Mouse with a gun" claim from Kingdom Hearts. I remember LLD's strong performance in Blaz Blue. Growing up in a very backwards corner of the American South, I remember being struck that a woman could be so aggressive and filled with fire. I remember reading along in Cowboy Bebop Remix, and while I don't remember the strength of his play that game, I remember thinking how smart GreyICE's posts looked to me and maybe I'd grow up to be that smart one day. I remember being so, so impressed with Nacho for every single game that I ever saw him play, thinking his towngame second only to Regfan. Don't get me wrong, I didn't track any of you specifically, but you were names that I got excited to see in tables together, and part of games that I couldn't help but read along to, and players I couldn't help but look up to. Though they're not here, there are plenty of other players I looked up to in those days when I was too young and nervous to play myself: Regfan, Fate, Magua, Vi, the list goes on.

I'm 24 now. I'm no longer 13, I'm no longer nervously reading along as people older than me make arguments I can't understand, and I no longer look up so fawningly at those older than me. But I was still stunned when Nacho PM'd me in recognition of my play in my very first game onsite, and I was stunned when Regfan nominated me for DC despite not even recognizing who I was, and I was beyond excited for the first game, Miss List, where I got to go up against GreyICE.

I have a lot of problems accepting praise, especially midgame, due to how I approach the game and how much I try and demand from myself as a player. I no longer have the same fawning eyes I did when I was 13, either: The fact that you were model players to me at 13 does not make you role models now. It's probably weird to hear from someone who was reading your games when they were 13, but with that background in mind: It is an honor every time I get to play with you, and I'm extremely grateful to have the chance to demonstrate my own strength as a player against the players I looked up to growing up, even in a game as silly and niche as mafia. It is exactly this that drives me so strongly to win.

[Bell]

Aw, that’s adorkable prism.

I’m kind of just shifting between Bork, cakez and MB.

With a lot of paranoia outside of my stronger town reads.

[Dunnstral]

Thanks Prism

[Dunnstral]

Hey Dunnstral

Of everyone here, you know best why I'm not feeling having reads and pushing them. It's very insulting being punished for being wrong.

Yeah. I am in *passive player mode* right now and a lot of this is ON YOU.

So, get outta of here with your shitty, scummy vote. You can't read me for diddly squat.

Speaking of players who can't read me for diddly squat, and whose VCA is so tragically wrong that it's sometimes considered yeet-worthy. Titus. Titus, your VCA blows chunks once again and you scumread me 80% of the time, and suspect me the remaining 20%. So, get outta here too with that rubbish. At least I have learned, the hard way, that your VCA being pure trash doesn't mean you're scum.

Prism. Remember that game where you did me a favor a couple of times? Hint hint I am town.

MathBlade got it right.

Don't AtE at me
And when you do, at least decide if you want to AtE or push me. You haven't explained why my vote is scummy.

I think your predecessor had a suspicious exit/contribution. I said I'd give it to day 2, nothing has changed.