Newbie 2057: Mars! - End!

[skitter30]

It's hard for me to TR skitter for #406, does reducing everything I said to some other random player who it appears lightly shaded her in lylo and brought up her signature seem town to you? I do agree that #147 seems scummy in the same way SAMCO seems scummy for voting pooky to prove a point, but I honestly think scum would be more subtle in how they end up on a miselim bw rather than openly announcing "I am joining the bw in a super scummy way everyone!"

This is reductive and once again is trying to mitigate the point i'm making

[six pomegranate seeds]

I don't think T3 is a level 1 night kill. I've played enough mafia to know that people's vote pools don't tend to radically change day to day. It is absolutely optimal to remove players who have you in their votepool as mafia, players have a hard time changing their minds on reads as you can see from the SAMCO/creative fight playing out. If you can take out players who will push you next day and make you the center of attention, you absolutely benefit as a mafia. Implying that killing someone who suspected you is low level mafia play and therefore incompatable with your perception of my idea of your mafia play is simply not true.

I admit that my reads can simply be wrong on SAMCO and perhaps I am reading too much into you pushing what seems to me like ez town.

I think i basically addressed 415 in my last post

T3 is a bizarre kill. Its nkt inherently a level1 kill, but saying i did it because he sus'd me would be a very level1 reason for me to make that kill, and i'm objecting to the notion that i would have made that kill for that reason, i would have looked for a pr or killed like kazyen (or something), it wouldnt have been t3. Like killing t3 for that reason basically posits that i'd be scared or worried about getting into a thing with him the next day, ans i am most assuredly not, but you seem to be indicating that i am

Well maybe this is the way you think. If it came down to you vs. T3 I would have voted you without a second thought. Maybe this is the way that you play then and I am overthinking things. I think everyone else in the lobby TRing you is a red flag to me that my suspicion may be off. I think if there were fewer mafia in the periphery more people would have jumped on you when I submitted my initial suspicion but I got a lot of "hey hey cool off."

[six pomegranate seeds]

Maybe this is really how you play. I have no way of knowing. But I do think honoring the dead is a valid way of playing mafia. I kill people who sus me all the time. If there was a fight between you and T3 today I would have thought T3 was super town. Why does a newer player pick a fight with one of the strongest players in the lobby unless it's lylo.

I also think it's really lazy for you to just bin me in with some player I dont know from a past game. I put out a number of reasons to suspect you and I spent a good number of hours today reading the game carefully. You show up and in a few minutes your all of the sudden coninced I am mafia. And asking me for what i think your scumgame looks like feels like trying to set me up for an omgus, I obviously don't know what your scumgame looks like I have no idea who you are.

If you want to have a conversation with me tell me why you are sus of SAMCO. From what I read you think his bravado is fake. I seriously doubt a new player would play suicidal like that, exactly as T3 stated on d1.

(I'm bored at work but i might have to leave before i get to everything, i will return and finish later tonight if that's the case)

Ok a few things:
- i'm not being lazy by 'binning you with some player from a past game'. I'm calling out a specific pattern that features specific elements that's happened at least three times before, and i've only seen it come from scum. I've never seen it come from town, and you fit the pattern to a T. I'm not sure why you're handwaving this away
- i also object to you reducing the scumread to omgus, when i laid out a very specific reason for why i think you're scum
- i could make an assumption of how you viewed my scumgame given how you interacted with me, but i asked you to doublecheck my assumption before i rolled out mu conclusion - if you had answered something contrary/different, i would have rethought the read, but you didnt, so. And you clearly did have some sort of preconceived notion, even if you'd now like to say otherwise
- i think i already explained why i was sus of samcro: the bravado ans aggression eod1 looked fake to me. I also said today that he made a few posts that i liked, and that i was rethinking the read, a fact that you're kinda ignoring

Fine I am fitting a pattern that you think that only mafia can possible fit into. I am going to be clear why I SR you. You seemed to be pushing on one of my biggest TRs in the lobby, and are supposed to be an experienced player. Those two things do not add up. I was not subtly throwing shade on you for your signature. I thought you were pushing a bad suspicion as a good player - which is a good signal for scum in my eyes.

I did not ignore that you were coming around to town reading him - I made note of that several times in my posts. My question to you is - do you really think that SAMCRO is town and if so, who would you vote instead. I guess the answer is that you will vote me. Well I can tell you that I am town. I was not light shading you by suspecting you - I placed my vote on you when no one else did when the vote was clearly between creative samco. If I am mafia and you had previously TR my slot, why would I go about picking a fight with you?

So my question remains unanswered - do you still feel that SAMCO is mafia or would you want to swap votes? I can tell you for a fact I am town, so if you are really town and assume that I am town - then who would you vote?

[skitter30]

Maybe i'm just very good at allowing my towniness to shine through :)

Pedit the longer post i'll have to get back to a little later today, apologies

[six pomegranate seeds]

It's hard for me to TR skitter for #406, does reducing everything I said to some other random player who it appears lightly shaded her in lylo and brought up her signature seem town to you? I do agree that #147 seems scummy in the same way SAMCO seems scummy for voting pooky to prove a point, but I honestly think scum would be more subtle in how they end up on a miselim bw rather than openly announcing "I am joining the bw in a super scummy way everyone!"

This is reductive and once again is trying to mitigate the point i'm making

Ok, maybe this is an argument that is coming from a town you. If you are really a town then I can tell you for a fact that my reason for scumming you is not just "the mafia must be really good this game." You say that I am reducing your reads, I feel exactly the same way about you.

Sometimes I just assume that a good town player will be better at correctly reading my alignment, maybe that is not always the case. But I feel like I have played this day quite townie, and the fact that you don't see that either means I am disappointed in your town play or that you are just scum.

[six pomegranate seeds]

I kinda dislike how you lay out several reasons to tr creative in 426 (similar to my own) but come to the conclusion you still want to flip him

I am conflicted about him being mafia. I've never played forum - but do mafia commonly have the highest post count? I've expressed multiple times that I am conflicted about voting creative. But there are things about him that ping scum, especially on d2. On day 1 his info dumps and reaching for reads early felt a little off. Him telling me that I was a TR from d1 then when I start actually speaking changing his mind and voting me is kind of lols. He says that I am paired with SAMCRO because I am defending him this hard, honestly I tend to be more of a busser in the games I play - I guess none of you know that. But if creative looks at how griff argues with SAMCRO #142 I don't really see how others view that as a possible pairing. He's even swapping his vote over his biggest suspicion in what appears to be an attempt to live because "more people are sussing seeds so I will swap votes." Swapping your vote off of your hard sus does not seem very townie to me, neither does self pres voting.

There is the possibility that I am wrong about SAMCRO being a town, in which case I've probably lost town this game by derailing when it seems that town was going to vote him. I do apologize to the townspeople if that ends up being the case. Maybe my d1 counterpart staying in the game would have been better for town in that case

I reread the game this morning Skitter, and I actually do remember from my initial skim agreeing with a lot of your reads before I entered the game. My concern at present - however, is that you seem quite convinced I am mafia to the point it seems you are more concerned with miselimming me than actually interacting with me. My suspicion on you was open to change once we interacted, but your suspicion on me feels like you are trying to muster the troops to vote me rather than exploring whether you think I am genuine or not. I can tell you my reads are 100% genuine so it feels off that you cannot see that.

[six pomegranate seeds]

Btw you can link posts using post-tags, and it would make it a little easier to go back and see ehat you're talking abt

Oh I see this option now, I will do from now on.

[six pomegranate seeds]

Maybe this is really how you play. I have no way of knowing. But I do think honoring the dead is a valid way of playing mafia. I kill people who sus me all the time. If there was a fight between you and T3 today I would have thought T3 was super town. Why does a newer player pick a fight with one of the strongest players in the lobby unless it's lylo.

I also think it's really lazy for you to just bin me in with some player I dont know from a past game. I put out a number of reasons to suspect you and I spent a good number of hours today reading the game carefully. You show up and in a few minutes your all of the sudden coninced I am mafia. And asking me for what i think your scumgame looks like feels like trying to set me up for an omgus, I obviously don't know what your scumgame looks like I have no idea who you are.

If you want to have a conversation with me tell me why you are sus of SAMCO. From what I read you think his bravado is fake. I seriously doubt a new player would play suicidal like that, exactly as T3 stated on d1.

(I'm bored at work but i might have to leave before i get to everything, i will return and finish later tonight if that's the case)

Ok a few things:
- i'm not being lazy by 'binning you with some player from a past game'. I'm calling out a specific pattern that features specific elements that's happened at least three times before, and i've only seen it come from scum. I've never seen it come from town, and you fit the pattern to a T. I'm not sure why you're handwaving this away
- i also object to you reducing the scumread to omgus, when i laid out a very specific reason for why i think you're scum
- i could make an assumption of how you viewed my scumgame given how you interacted with me, but i asked you to doublecheck my assumption before i rolled out mu conclusion - if you had answered something contrary/different, i would have rethought the read, but you didnt, so. And you clearly did have some sort of preconceived notion, even if you'd now like to say otherwise
- i think i already explained why i was sus of samcro: the bravado ans aggression eod1 looked fake to me. I also said today that he made a few posts that i liked, and that i was rethinking the read, a fact that you're kinda ignoring

Another comment - you've already admitted my preconceived notion is correct that you have a strong scum game. If you wear that signature around - what do you think people meeting you for the first time are going to think I really cannot understand how you scum read someone for thinking what any person would think based on the information available to them.

And the basis for my scum read on you is not "oh noes skitter so scurry big bad tiger" I've laid out that it felt like you were pushing one of my biggest TRs and the guy who died said that SAMCRO was easy town. Why does SAMCRO the scum elim a guy who just said he was obviously town and clearly would not vote him? To me T3 dying was like yup SAMCRO is obv town and your response is push him right off the bat. I don't like when strong players push my TRs, you admit you are a strong player - everything should add up quite easily from your POV why I SR you. Instead you call my read bad and scummy (I still have a hard time understanding why exactly you think this) and call Andante's read townie when he didn't give much reasoning and just said "skitter good vote - i can't see world where skitter town." To me this feels like you not really caring about sorting me properly and just getting people to vote me.

Anyways, I had already made the decision to drop my tunnel on you and come into this day with an open mind before deciding on my vote. If you guys decide to vote me I want to at least die voting a mafia while all of you will have voted a town

I actually understand the impulse SAMCRO if he was town had to flip Pooky just to see if he was right at this point. This game goes on forever.

[fferyllt]

SAMCRO has been prodded.

[Andante]

ok, seeds's comments about the n1 kill, and the fact I feel like there has been many feels weird to me, almost like he's mad griff picked them, idk.


Note about Skitter, the post at #406, I felt was pretty good, like, I'm not entirely sure a scum!skitter would have worded it that way, one thing I'm not sure about on skitter is their post #149, to me 147 felt super scummy, then skitter TRed it?? idk, I'm no longer feeling a skitter elim here tbh which then makes me go, ok, who do I want here...

#375 creative went "If sam is scum" after saying sam was their strongest sr??

I'm thinking an elim in kaz/creative tbh

It's hard for me to TR skitter for #406, does reducing everything I said to some other random player who it appears lightly shaded her in lylo and brought up her signature seem town to you? I do agree that #147 seems scummy in the same way SAMCO seems scummy for voting pooky to prove a point, but I honestly think scum would be more subtle in how they end up on a miselim bw rather than openly announcing "I am joining the bw in a super scummy way everyone!"

It is somewhat annoying SAMCO doesn't show up to talk at all.

In #406,
"sooooooo in the newbie queue there's this thing that happens where newbie scum get a particular vibe of my scumgame (either via my sig or via an SE partner, in this game the former) and decide to hype me up as a big bad scary scumplayer with a super strong scumgame and a lot of their case ultimately rides on the fact that i'm very good at scum, people should be afraid of my scumgame, and/or the game points to experienced scum

(incidentally i *do* have a very strong scumgame but this particular pattern/hyping it up in this way seems to exclusively happen in the newbie queue, it's happened i think 3 other times now)"

I TR this part, like, idk, a lot of me feels like scum wouldn't want to start talking about their scum game, or at least, town would be more willing to discuss it.

And your next comment about the "self preservation vote" I think Creative realized the sam wagon wasn't going anywhere, and you haven't exactly been towny, but the resistance to the sam wagon kinda makes me sus there... I need to just ISO everyone, my reads are literally falling apart and I am crazy unsure right now

[Andante]

What is making most sense in my head is that I have very wrong reads, and at least 1 scum is outside skitter/seeds/creative, I'll focus outside for a bit here

[six pomegranate seeds]

ok, seeds's comments about the n1 kill, and the fact I feel like there has been many feels weird to me, almost like he's mad griff picked them, idk.


Note about Skitter, the post at #406, I felt was pretty good, like, I'm not entirely sure a scum!skitter would have worded it that way, one thing I'm not sure about on skitter is their post #149, to me 147 felt super scummy, then skitter TRed it?? idk, I'm no longer feeling a skitter elim here tbh which then makes me go, ok, who do I want here...

#375 creative went "If sam is scum" after saying sam was their strongest sr??

I'm thinking an elim in kaz/creative tbh

It's hard for me to TR skitter for #406, does reducing everything I said to some other random player who it appears lightly shaded her in lylo and brought up her signature seem town to you? I do agree that #147 seems scummy in the same way SAMCO seems scummy for voting pooky to prove a point, but I honestly think scum would be more subtle in how they end up on a miselim bw rather than openly announcing "I am joining the bw in a super scummy way everyone!"

It is somewhat annoying SAMCO doesn't show up to talk at all.

In #406,
"sooooooo in the newbie queue there's this thing that happens where newbie scum get a particular vibe of my scumgame (either via my sig or via an SE partner, in this game the former) and decide to hype me up as a big bad scary scumplayer with a super strong scumgame and a lot of their case ultimately rides on the fact that i'm very good at scum, people should be afraid of my scumgame, and/or the game points to experienced scum

(incidentally i *do* have a very strong scumgame but this particular pattern/hyping it up in this way seems to exclusively happen in the newbie queue, it's happened i think 3 other times now)"

I TR this part, like, idk, a lot of me feels like scum wouldn't want to start talking about their scum game, or at least, town would be more willing to discuss it.

And your next comment about the "self preservation vote" I think Creative realized the sam wagon wasn't going anywhere, and you haven't exactly been towny, but the resistance to the sam wagon kinda makes me sus there... I need to just ISO everyone, my reads are literally falling apart and I am crazy unsure right now

I think I do TR you tbf, I'm at the same point where my reads are falling apart so it feels very townie of you to say that.

[six pomegranate seeds]

Nvm creative is not obv town

Are you willing to explain this now? This is a pivotal moment in the game imo.

[six pomegranate seeds]

ok, seeds's comments about the n1 kill, and the fact I feel like there has been many feels weird to me, almost like he's mad griff picked them, idk.


Note about Skitter, the post at #406, I felt was pretty good, like, I'm not entirely sure a scum!skitter would have worded it that way, one thing I'm not sure about on skitter is their post #149, to me 147 felt super scummy, then skitter TRed it?? idk, I'm no longer feeling a skitter elim here tbh which then makes me go, ok, who do I want here...

#375 creative went "If sam is scum" after saying sam was their strongest sr??

I'm thinking an elim in kaz/creative tbh

It's hard for me to TR skitter for #406, does reducing everything I said to some other random player who it appears lightly shaded her in lylo and brought up her signature seem town to you? I do agree that #147 seems scummy in the same way SAMCO seems scummy for voting pooky to prove a point, but I honestly think scum would be more subtle in how they end up on a miselim bw rather than openly announcing "I am joining the bw in a super scummy way everyone!"

It is somewhat annoying SAMCO doesn't show up to talk at all.

In #406,
"sooooooo in the newbie queue there's this thing that happens where newbie scum get a particular vibe of my scumgame (either via my sig or via an SE partner, in this game the former) and decide to hype me up as a big bad scary scumplayer with a super strong scumgame and a lot of their case ultimately rides on the fact that i'm very good at scum, people should be afraid of my scumgame, and/or the game points to experienced scum

(incidentally i *do* have a very strong scumgame but this particular pattern/hyping it up in this way seems to exclusively happen in the newbie queue, it's happened i think 3 other times now)"

I TR this part, like, idk, a lot of me feels like scum wouldn't want to start talking about their scum game, or at least, town would be more willing to discuss it.

And your next comment about the "self preservation vote" I think Creative realized the sam wagon wasn't going anywhere, and you haven't exactly been towny, but the resistance to the sam wagon kinda makes me sus there... I need to just ISO everyone, my reads are literally falling apart and I am crazy unsure right now

I've thought about your TR on skitter here and honestly I do talk about my scum game maybe more when I am town. I said in an earlier post that I tend to bus as mafia, but I think I'm starting to understand in these forum games maybe it's better to just defend your mafia because it's so hard to get anyone voted.

I do agree there is a world where creative just thinks he won't get samcro voted and votes me as town.

Part of me just wants to vote SAMCRO just because if he's actually mafia just attempting to fake townslips and I prevented town from voting him I would feel really bad about it especially in my first game. But I don't think voting out of guilt has ever won me a game as town.

I think in the next few hours I'll try to finalize who I want to vote and clearly say why so that I don't have issues with the deadline tomorrow while I'm at work.

[Andante]

I just ISO'd Kaz, and I invite you all to do the same, I'd rather not flood this with quotes.

Kaz's entire stance on this game seems to be very reactionary, I see no effort at all to find scum from this slot, and it looks like Kaz entered D2 with an agenda, which was "Vote Creative out" All of their posts about creative were like "Creative is maf!!! Don't care about counter points"

Kaz also disappeared while likely "letting town tunnel one another" I just get bad vibes from this slot

I'm like 99% sure I'm going to vote this today, would love to hear yall's thoughts on this.

[Andante]

ok, seeds's comments about the n1 kill, and the fact I feel like there has been many feels weird to me, almost like he's mad griff picked them, idk.


Note about Skitter, the post at #406, I felt was pretty good, like, I'm not entirely sure a scum!skitter would have worded it that way, one thing I'm not sure about on skitter is their post #149, to me 147 felt super scummy, then skitter TRed it?? idk, I'm no longer feeling a skitter elim here tbh which then makes me go, ok, who do I want here...

#375 creative went "If sam is scum" after saying sam was their strongest sr??

I'm thinking an elim in kaz/creative tbh

It's hard for me to TR skitter for #406, does reducing everything I said to some other random player who it appears lightly shaded her in lylo and brought up her signature seem town to you? I do agree that #147 seems scummy in the same way SAMCO seems scummy for voting pooky to prove a point, but I honestly think scum would be more subtle in how they end up on a miselim bw rather than openly announcing "I am joining the bw in a super scummy way everyone!"

It is somewhat annoying SAMCO doesn't show up to talk at all.

In #406,
"sooooooo in the newbie queue there's this thing that happens where newbie scum get a particular vibe of my scumgame (either via my sig or via an SE partner, in this game the former) and decide to hype me up as a big bad scary scumplayer with a super strong scumgame and a lot of their case ultimately rides on the fact that i'm very good at scum, people should be afraid of my scumgame, and/or the game points to experienced scum

(incidentally i *do* have a very strong scumgame but this particular pattern/hyping it up in this way seems to exclusively happen in the newbie queue, it's happened i think 3 other times now)"

I TR this part, like, idk, a lot of me feels like scum wouldn't want to start talking about their scum game, or at least, town would be more willing to discuss it.

And your next comment about the "self preservation vote" I think Creative realized the sam wagon wasn't going anywhere, and you haven't exactly been towny, but the resistance to the sam wagon kinda makes me sus there... I need to just ISO everyone, my reads are literally falling apart and I am crazy unsure right now

I've thought about your TR on skitter here and honestly I do talk about my scum game maybe more when I am town. I said in an earlier post that I tend to bus as mafia, but I think I'm starting to understand in these forum games maybe it's better to just defend your mafia because it's so hard to get anyone voted.

I do agree there is a world where creative just thinks he won't get samcro voted and votes me as town.

Part of me just wants to vote SAMCRO just because if he's actually mafia just attempting to fake townslips and I prevented town from voting him I would feel really bad about it especially in my first game. But I don't think voting out of guilt has ever won me a game as town.

I think in the next few hours I'll try to finalize who I want to vote and clearly say why so that I don't have issues with the deadline tomorrow while I'm at work.

I mean, it is very likely yall were just TvT, I'm saying, we need to look at others, Wheme/Kaz, these 2 have been flying under the radar today, and I'm inclined to believe it's just to avoid attention. I know Kaz hasn't taken like any stances this game, except against Creative (which felt so planned to me) I find it really hard to believe town wouldn't want to say anything about SAM/seeds/skitter here after there's been a lot of talk on you 3 recently

[six pomegranate seeds]

I just ISO'd Kaz, and I invite you all to do the same, I'd rather not flood this with quotes.

Kaz's entire stance on this game seems to be very reactionary, I see no effort at all to find scum from this slot, and it looks like Kaz entered D2 with an agenda, which was "Vote Creative out" All of their posts about creative were like "Creative is maf!!! Don't care about counter points"

Kaz also disappeared while likely "letting town tunnel one another" I just get bad vibes from this slot

I'm like 99% sure I'm going to vote this today, would love to hear yall's thoughts on this.

I had a lot of thoughts as I was going to bed about whether kazyan could be mafia. I initially TR kazyan at #47, #71 where he susses creative also pinged town to me. But he backs off the read quickly which kind of feels a little scummy to me. #133 were he says creative SAMCRO is not TvT initially felt quite townie to me as well. He could just be playing more careful as town, which is actually what he expressed to open the game in #44. So I feel bad if my scum vibes are coming off of a player being more humble because I think that’s a really admirable trait in a player. But honestly #44 opening a game by saying you are going to play differently is commonly a mafia thing to say in my experience. The other thing that pinged me about kazyan was his willingness to vote SAMCRO -> creative idk I was just getting bad vibes because I was hard TRing SAMCRO at that point it was a gut feeling. I do think if SAMCRO is mafia Kazyan would make sense as the pair though tbh in #208 he thinks SAMCRO is scummy but wants to vote for Creative. He does soon backtrack and agree to vote SAMCRO a little while later.

Idk, the thing that scum pinged me hardest on kazyan is that in my past games when I am getting upset about being suspected normally the mafia are the ones who feel bad for me and try to defend me which kazyan did defend me. And by post count kazyan does seem a little more passive which is suspicious.

It’s not fair to say he just sat back and didn’t say anything though, he defended me and said I was town in #431.

I don’t know. I think you are probably townie Andante for suggesting kazyan as a vote option. It does feel like you are trying to solve right now. Let me think.

[six pomegranate seeds]

Wait, crap lmao we didn't have a single vote outside of the SAMCRO/Creative deadlock up until you guys came in. Mafia can't be trying to deflect. Damn, now that I put my thoughts into words, I realize that I'm freaking out over nothing

Idk this just gives me townpings tbh. Idk if it's just TMIing that I am town since I am the person who came in and took the heat off of those two, but I think having a preliminary thought that doesn't make sense and then coming to the realization it doesn't make sense seems townie to me.

Also I'm going through his ISO and a lot of it just seems really townie. He has given a lot of content throughout the game and was proactively giving reads that I thought made sense at the time. The point you bring up that he hasn't really interjected too much into the current action is somewhat valid since his post count is lower on D2. That is scummy. But he did interject to say he sus'd skitter he changed from voting SAMCRO to voting creative and he TR me so he did have opinions.

If I'm picking up on the invest soft correctly honestly I'd still just want to vote into Creative / Skitter I think. I'm honestly sorry to town if I am wrong but I'm just going to go with my gut feeling.

Do you think that SAMCRO is town Andante? Because if SAMCRO is town I'm willing to bet at least one mafia pushed them. Actually Kazyan also expressed intent to vote SAMCRO so maybe I will remain open to him in the votepool.

It would be really nice if SAMCRO would actually play and stop looking like a mafia who just gave up though lol.

[six pomegranate seeds]

[quote="In post 369, CreativeName"][/quote]

Asking if we have a miselim implies you have completely lost track of the game state to an extent that is hard to do as mafia imo. He's either maliciously attempting to play very dumb as mafia or he's just a lost town which seems more likely to me. Mafia doesn't lose track of how many miselims are left unless they are intentionally playing dumb.

[six pomegranate seeds]

I kinda dislike how you lay out several reasons to tr creative in 426 (similar to my own) but come to the conclusion you still want to flip him

Wanting to flip creative absolutely makes sense If I assume SAMCRO town, regardless of Creative's alignment because Creative seems like he will vote SAMCRO in ELO otherwise. He also now wants to vote me, another great reason to just yeet him now even if he is town. You can't bring scumsiding town into ELO, and if I use my initial gut reads before everyone started arguing with me he's the second most sus person in the game. He's also the most sus person on the Miselim d1 wagon another compelling reason to vote him.

I'm getting kind of bored now though. Not sure if forum mafia is really for me.

[six pomegranate seeds]

Summary of thoughts at present:

Townbinning: Andante ("my reads are falling apart" coming in with gutreads and adapting reads exploring options seems town his pseudooriginal sus on kaz feels townie), WhemeStar (liked sudden flip on creative being town to not for one post, he TR SAMCRO without any feedback from me just like T3 did), SAMCRO (feels like he townslipped at various points i dont think mafia would play super suicidal and then effectively afk)

Process of Elim votes: Kazaya vs. Creative (I feel like one mafia in these two.) Skitter - I do think her pushing SAMCRO and then really addressing her thoughts on SAMCO when that was the only thing I really wanted her to answer feels scummy.

I'll vote within Kazaya / Creative / Skitter.

If I am really wrong about SAMCRO then I apologize for derailing the game. I'll probably take a break it's hard for me to disconnect from the game when I have free time and it's not really fun being the only person talking.

[CreativeName]

I kinda dislike how you lay out several reasons to tr creative in 426 (similar to my own) but come to the conclusion you still want to flip him

Wanting to flip creative absolutely makes sense If I assume SAMCRO town, regardless of Creative's alignment because Creative seems like he will vote SAMCRO in ELO otherwise. He also now wants to vote me, another great reason to just yeet him now even if he is town. You can't bring scumsiding town into ELO, and if I use my initial gut reads before everyone started arguing with me he's the second most sus person in the game. He's also the most sus person on the Miselim d1 wagon another compelling reason to vote him.

I'm getting kind of bored now though. Not sure if forum mafia is really for me.

In my eyes it's the same for you, even if you are town because I SR SAMCRO you're either a scum buddy or a scumsiding town

Also I will accept a different lynch if people have more evidence on a player, I'm not just gonna pile SAMCRO until he is lynched

[CreativeName]

Asking if we have a miselim implies you have completely lost track of the game state to an extent that is hard to do as mafia imo. He's either maliciously attempting to play very dumb as mafia or he's just a lost town which seems more likely to me. Mafia doesn't lose track of how many miselims are left unless they are intentionally playing dumb.

He would know it was only D2 because it says so in the title and in a 7 v 2 that's 3 miselims with no mafia dead before they win, so IDK why he would ask it to me it's NAI, which is why I slightly suspect you two in a team because you're townreading him on NAI things

[six pomegranate seeds]

ok, seeds's comments about the n1 kill, and the fact I feel like there has been many feels weird to me, almost like he's mad griff picked them, idk.


Note about Skitter, the post at #406, I felt was pretty good, like, I'm not entirely sure a scum!skitter would have worded it that way, one thing I'm not sure about on skitter is their post #149, to me 147 felt super scummy, then skitter TRed it?? idk, I'm no longer feeling a skitter elim here tbh which then makes me go, ok, who do I want here...

#375 creative went "If sam is scum" after saying sam was their strongest sr??

I'm thinking an elim in kaz/creative tbh

It's hard for me to TR skitter for #406, does reducing everything I said to some other random player who it appears lightly shaded her in lylo and brought up her signature seem town to you? I do agree that #147 seems scummy in the same way SAMCO seems scummy for voting pooky to prove a point, but I honestly think scum would be more subtle in how they end up on a miselim bw rather than openly announcing "I am joining the bw in a super scummy way everyone!"

It is somewhat annoying SAMCO doesn't show up to talk at all.

In #406,
"sooooooo in the newbie queue there's this thing that happens where newbie scum get a particular vibe of my scumgame (either via my sig or via an SE partner, in this game the former) and decide to hype me up as a big bad scary scumplayer with a super strong scumgame and a lot of their case ultimately rides on the fact that i'm very good at scum, people should be afraid of my scumgame, and/or the game points to experienced scum

(incidentally i *do* have a very strong scumgame but this particular pattern/hyping it up in this way seems to exclusively happen in the newbie queue, it's happened i think 3 other times now)"

I TR this part, like, idk, a lot of me feels like scum wouldn't want to start talking about their scum game, or at least, town would be more willing to discuss it.

And your next comment about the "self preservation vote" I think Creative realized the sam wagon wasn't going anywhere, and you haven't exactly been towny, but the resistance to the sam wagon kinda makes me sus there... I need to just ISO everyone, my reads are literally falling apart and I am crazy unsure right now

I'm just going to say I thought this over, I don't know if talking about your scumgame is a townie thing or not, but this response to my sus on her feels like something you could pull out on a lot of players and doesn't feel all that specific to me. Feels like she is talking about a pattern more than she is talking about specific things that I did or said. And that doesn't feel townie to me. Like for example when I use pattern recognition on things like omgusses or reciprocal susses I always try to take the players actions and context into consideration. I'm not seeing a lot of that here. Even blindly following a pattern worked 3 times in the past, that is a sample size of n = 3, and to just be willing to scumbin me from n=3 without wanting to bring in more context does seem lazy to me regardless of what skitter says.

[Andante]

Wait, crap lmao we didn't have a single vote outside of the SAMCRO/Creative deadlock up until you guys came in. Mafia can't be trying to deflect. Damn, now that I put my thoughts into words, I realize that I'm freaking out over nothing

Idk this just gives me townpings tbh. Idk if it's just TMIing that I am town since I am the person who came in and took the heat off of those two, but I think having a preliminary thought that doesn't make sense and then coming to the realization it doesn't make sense seems townie to me.

Also I'm going through his ISO and a lot of it just seems really townie. He has given a lot of content throughout the game and was proactively giving reads that I thought made sense at the time. The point you bring up that he hasn't really interjected too much into the current action is somewhat valid since his post count is lower on D2. That is scummy. But he did interject to say he sus'd skitter he changed from voting SAMCRO to voting creative and he TR me so he did have opinions.

If I'm picking up on the invest soft correctly honestly I'd still just want to vote into Creative / Skitter I think. I'm honestly sorry to town if I am wrong but I'm just going to go with my gut feeling.

Do you think that SAMCRO is town Andante? Because if SAMCRO is town I'm willing to bet at least one mafia pushed them. Actually Kazyan also expressed intent to vote SAMCRO so maybe I will remain open to him in the votepool.

It would be really nice if SAMCRO would actually play and stop looking like a mafia who just gave up though lol.

I'm trying to logic through a SAM/Kaz team - both tunneled Creative at a point in the game, and maf often discuss reads on like easy pushes, SAM has done a lot of pushing on Creative, and I see 0 interactions from SAM with Kaz. I could see a maf SAM carelessly throwing out a vanilla town claim, idk, I'm trying to weigh the options here. Neither Sam nor Kaz has made a significant effort to try and find scum here, I understand SAM is just missing, idk. I think I could see a Sam and Kaz team (no I'm not just trying to pick easy pushes)

Yes, I also TRed Kaz for a couple lines, but then after I TRed Kaz, I stopped reading Kaz, and Kaz stopped trying. To me, it feels like Kaz doesn't actually care to find scum, and it's so easy to act towny at first, reading Kaz's ISO and SAM's it feels like they're partners