Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[SirCakez]

I had a weird dream about this game
The final four was Cabd, myself, sangres and someone else who I can't remember
Somebody got hammered who was mafia so we thought it was over
But then Cabd won as serial killer and we all got mad at penguin in post game

Very strange

[Dunnstral]

We need to know who the 4th member was Cakez

We need to know

[Dunnstral]

We need to know who the 4th member was Cakez

We need to know

[SirCakez]

I DON'T REMEMBER IM SORRY

Tbh it might not even have been someone in this game lol

[Prism]

I would really, REALLY like for Tammy to stay and not flake/replace out, and I'm sure I'm not the only one at the table who feels this way. (Nothing has been submitted/I don't even think she's been prodded, but at over 72 hours without posting I'm a bit concerned)

[SirCakez]

She's just busy irl right?

[MathBlade]

Ugh that was beautiful but kinda scummy.

Prism are you assuming Cakez is town?

[Prism]

Not really, just a townlean, but at this point I'm heavily weighing just voting one of Cakez/Titus to get the wheels turning again. The only votes I actively like are GreyICE and DGB, the first isn't happening and the second is still *shrug*

[Prism]

If you're worried it's fake, as scum I 100% save it for later and not just randomly drop it to get LLD/Tammy in the game again.

That said I had been planning to save a variant of that speech for when I flipped scum against Nacho so you're not entirely wrong but c'est la vie.

[MathBlade]

I am not worried it’s fake, it just reads as manipulative. I really like you’re being nice so I was kinda scared to call it out.

[Prism]

fair enuf, I was just being a huge jerk for a lot of the game and at this point I need the help so ~pls come back everyone~

[penguin_alien]

Replacing Tammy

[SirCakez]

;(

[penguin_alien]

Replacing Tammy

Rescinded, Tammy returns

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I know I said I wouldn't shitpost anymore but this deserves a:

[Prism]

YES

btw Pooky could you maybe give a reads list or something? maybe we could find a point to talk about.

[borkjerfkin]

(courtesy post so penguin doesn't have to worry):

back tonight, had a pretty shit week so far.

[Tammy]

Sorry. I actually thought I replaced out on Monday when the idea of playing mafia was too much. I'm an easily distracted waffler, so I must have gone shiny before hitting send but thinking I did. I'm in a bit better headspace than I was a couple days ago, so I'll work on getting back to it. I still need to read through Mastina and how the end of day went down and today. Need to go back to look at some other things day one as well.

Prism - Thank you for asking me a question a few days ago. It felt like you were trying to pull me into the game, and I appreciated it. Sometimes I feel super alone in mafia games, so it's nice to not feel alone. Also I really hope that my read on you is right. Not just because I thought you were town quite early and I'd like to be right, but also because you've recognized me as town. After the game we played a few years ago, I thought I was the type of player that you'd not understand and never be able to read as town, so I'm happy if I'm actually wrong about that. (And, just in response to your big post. Nacho told me about how much he loved your play as scum that game and that he wanted to hydra with you and why. I was surprised when you said you didn't like playing scum when we were partnered in Flying Scumsman because of that. Regfan started playing at my homesite rip just after I started playing mafia so a lot of my early understanding of mafia was shaped by watching him and a couple other players there who were hands down some of the best town players I've ever seen. I still chat with Regfan though I miss some of the other players on your list. Magua was such a fun person to play with.)

[SirCakez]

bless!!!!

[Tammy]

Prism - I do owe you my thoughts on Bork though before I get started.

I don't know what to think of bork right now. I'm not leaving this game day with a townread, and that's extremely disturbing.

I'll be around more after my class is over, but did this happen to start when i said that your post could come from scum? Because this is the first I've heard of that kind of sentiment from you.

Like I'm sorry but wagon movement has been extremely weird in the latter half of this day and a town flip on mastina here, especially if Titus flips scum later on in the game, puts that under scrutiny for me.

Explain to me why that's unreasonable.

So initially this read really skeevy to me because the "oh do you not have a townread on me because x" just felt so off. It didn't feel right because Bork has felt off and oddly kinda angry all game and not town, so it felt like the kind of deflecting emotional manipulation he did to ffery in Illicit Substances.

Why it feels off are things like this:

If I'm reading things correctly, the post where he suggests sangres vote could come from scum was this one:

If you're talking about the recent votes on mastina, who specifically are you spooked by on that wagon?

Honestly? Everyone except Bell and Battle Mage because they weren't interested in Titus to begin with:

any of
Sangres 1716
Prism 1725
your 1831

Feel to me like they could possibly be stay-off-my-buddy votes just because none of them have any real "I've changed my mind about Titus" to them, and if mastina flips green there basically has to be scum in there

Which came after this:

The only thing its done really is made it slightly harder to read Tammy and KTT.

Are you referring to the post restriction? And if you read me as scum after we claimed IC, I don't think you have a handle on what town me looks like, don't think you'd be able to tell in more posts, and I'm not going to go all scary-face to get you to read me correctly. But if you are referring to the post restriction. The only thing that the post restriction has done is had me put together posts into one that I wouldn't normally bother with. I'd still have not been around much this week because I was busy with work stuff.

~~~

Ffery - I think maybe I understand where you got your original thought? When I mentioned not having you as town to town paean level, it was just a reference of my strength of read. In Tenet, when you made the town paean post, I knew you were town. I got paranoid here and there even after we died when I was somewhat keeping up in case we came back, but I always came back to that post as my tether for me just knowing you were town. So, when I referenced that it just meant that my strength of read was not what it was in Tenet, and I wouldn't want what pushed you to that reaction for me to have that kind of safety in a read.

I just wouldn't bet the game on any of my reads right this moment.

How do you feel about bork?

pedit: that's a total mood. Also don't bet on nacho right this minute. He wanted to "take a nap" a few hours ago because he's got a weird schedule tomorrow and I tried to wake him up from said nap and his response was something like why fight the inevitable or some shit like that. He'll probably do something stupid like wake up at 3 am and totally fuck himself over for work, so maybe you hear from him then.

I had this moment earlier today where I asked myself if there's an unequivocally town post in bork's iso to hold onto and pin down this cloud of a read I have right now, and I felt like maybe there isn't. And then he made a post that was a new thought -- a new question that nobody else had asked and I hadn't thought to ask myself and I thought "there he is! and oh look, he's asking a trajectory^tm question!"

And then Math came in and dumped on it and used it to chain bork and Titus together (with Prism?) and to push the idea of bork and mastina as partners apart.

Like there's not a world where bork just noticed the discrepancy and questioned Mastina.

Anyway, bork still worries me a little. He feels distant, maybe preoccupied.

And yeah, that is a mood. I feel like I've been in too much of a holding pattern, when I should just play onward and sync if and when.

Bell's made some decent points and my read's grown shakier over time, not stronger.

So the Bork suspicion did not come out of nowhere. In fact, sangres had never really expressed a town read on Bork other than liking the post in which he said that they didn't have to worry about him that game and kinda townreading it.

So it felt like a way to jump at her to push her a bit off her footing without recognizing that she'd already been wondering about him.

A few days ago I was thinking about this again, and I started to doubt the above a little bit. Years ago Bork and I hydrad in a game where ffery and nacho hydrad, and while ffery was always iffy about me nacho read me very well and both of them read Bork very well. But in this game, both of them were concerned about us even though we were both being very town throughout the game. And both of us were very freaked out about their question marks on us, and it caused us to have some suspicion on them for positionality reasons and there was some friction.

So when I remembered that, I'm not completely sure that his reaction wouldn't have been similar if he were town too, and I'm not sure what to do with my original reaction to his response to ffery.

Spoiler: Bork's reads list post

it should be clear based on my stances at the end of the Day why I am singling him out over Tammy, but instead he tries to discredit my suspicion by deflecting onto Tammy.

@bork, who do you want limmed today and why? On top of everything I've stated above, I feel a lot of your posts today are surface level and I have no idea where your head is at.

I mean, your stances aren't always clear, that's why I'm calling them out and speculating. You latched onto something that I felt was underexplained by them and only now do I have any kind of justification about why you feel this way.

(I don't really want to make this about tammy either but what has she done in particular that screams town besides an early unprovoked claim, because otherwise she's just been kinda there)

My reads probably would sort into:

{LLD, Bell, Prism, Pooky, Math}
{GreyICE, Cakez}
{Spiffeh, Tammy, BM}
{Dunn, Titus, DGB}

All my lower tier stuff explained:
Dunn - my reason for townreading Dunn EOD yesterday evaporated - I actually thought he was the mason partner for LLD, but Dunn's interactions with LLD have made it pretty clear that this isn't the case. Otherwise, his progression on Mathblade kind of left me in a weird spot as I wasn't very satisfied with how it ended but I picked up on what I thought were softs in that I didn't want to pursue it anymore. Would again restate that I doubt Dunn is scum w/ DGB.

Titus - just kinda gross interaction with Mathblade throughout the game. I find it really hard to stomach that someone wants to continually move back to a policy elim when we have a gamestate that really is pretty sane so far. Math also seems pretty transparently town to me. Don't like this version of the Pooky push either - I can more see where Cakez is coming from even if I think he's being dense as fuck about it.

DGB - Dunno, just expecting something other than the entrance I got. Might imply Titus is town if flipped scum but I consider the error bars extremely wide on that. Was hoping to be able to put this higher up when the slot turned over but here we are.

BM - Hard to quantify, just kinda bad vibes with voting patterns crossed with I think an occasional salient post or two. Did kind of get on mastina before it was cool, so maybe that does count for something. I need a reread.

Tammy - Other than the claim there's just not much there for me? A lot of talk about her overall approach and a lot of hypotheticals but not a lot of stuff that I'm reading with like "yeah I can empathize with that take". Her level of effort is reasonably high when she's here but I'm having trouble finding anything concrete that I can latch onto in a lot of her posts.

Spiffeh - Wanted to save you for last because you've done some stuff I like and some stuff I don't. I feel like people who approach with the level of breadth you do are generally town, and yeah you're trying to kick stones around, but your engagement against still seems like someone who decided at the start of day he wanted to push on my slot because of the opening that ffery gave about it and the fact that I'm not hyper engaged at the moment.
Ultimately I was worried about the mastina votes, but that was something I was willing to deal w/ d2 and that flip I think gave me considerable info and is also why I'm not up the people's asses that I said I was going to be up at start of day if mastina were to have flipped town.
Can we drop the 'surface level' buzzword when describing what you actually don't like about my play here? That makes it utterly impossible to read into your motivations for calling me out here and honestly makes me not want to engage at all. Do you disagree with my points? Do you think I am overly simplifying things? Your suspicion is wrong, and pre-2528 based on imo a really simplistic "sangres kinda sorted suspected bork and sangres is now dead" (despite the fact that I was fucking heavily crumbing that I was going to visit them w/ something last night which by the way I fucking did and it sure was fuck wasn't with a kill)

Spoilering that because this post is too big as it is, but a couple things read off. I don't like deflection onto me in his spiffeh thing before this post which he's done more than once now. It didn't feel like a search for selective scumhunting, which would make sense sort of, but more of a deflection that feels scummy. I don't really get his anger over the concern that sangres showed suspicion on bork and now they're dead so hmm, and really don't understand the angry "I crumbed I was visiting them" as if we're supposed to know that bit. I just reread through his iso and I don't even see it knowing it's supposed to be here. I mean yeah, it's annoying when you're town and people accuse you of this. I expected to get it myself once I saw that sangres was dead because nacho was there and most people don't understand nacho and my goals with each other concerning mafia. Think that Bork isn't really understanding where and why ffery did get concerned about me and that she ultimately was fine so it's weird that Bork deflected there and acting like it's the same. Beyond that I'd really appreciate his spiffeh thoughts that weren't just so centered around spiffeh's thoughts on bork.

I'm going to make that last sentence and immediately be a hypocrite because I hate his entire paragraph about me. The nothing concrete thing is full of cringe because that's often the way that scum talk about me and my posts. I'm not playing really any differently than I've played the past few games, and he was reading us in tenet based on my posts before we claimed IC, and his paranoia on us there felt more free flowing and organic. And the way that he got his initial read on me felt really really natural in tenet. I'm missing that there. I just read over my iso to see if this, and his earlier post, was a fair interpretation of my posts, and I don't think it is. I've made a few posts about my approach, not a lot. My claim wasn't really unprompted, I initially thought Cakez and I couldn't exist together but my sense of balance sucks so I thought I'd put it out there for people more adept than me to judge. I don't know it feels a bit off and my place on his list feels positional even thought I don't really have a problem with where I am in his list. I don't know if that makes sense.

I don't like some of his focus on mathblade. He's acting like people can't be irritated with the mathblade interaction issue, which weirdly makes me feel like he's not town trying to actually read people and the game through this. I feel like if he were town he'd understand the frustration a bit more. The focus later on mathblade being town so the wagon shouldn't be there feels like an easy thing to pop in and plunk down about. We're not bronzing mathblade, we all know we're not actually bronzing mathblade no matter how we want to policy here and there, so it feels like just something easy to pop in for.

BUT through all that, our poe isn't all that terribly different, which makes me wonder if we are not understanding each other this game. I would not have pooky or greyice as high as he has them as confidently as he does. And I'm not as confident that Titus is scum as he is but I definitely had some issues with her day one. If I could muster the ability to do a reads list though it wouldn't be so completely different that there's no way we're looking at the same game.

So, I've come down to not really knowing what to do with this read.

[Tammy]

Oh I have spiffeh higher than him. He's a much stronger town read for me, and part of that is spiffeh's interaction with me and his read and case on dunnstral and the way he pushed it. I do need to nail down this read to make sure I feel confident about this.

[Tammy]

I mean I don't have a ton of large theme experience but scum just...might not have an RB? Why are you assuming they have one? Looking at your role, I think you're overrating just how strong it is early game. You get stronger as the day goes; right now virtually everyone, scum included, is going to return zero and returning one still doesn't damn a scum slot.

Oh I forgot I also wanted to respond to that. I agree that my role isn't really all that strong right now, and I'm not even really sure what it can do early game especially. The role is why I suggested that if someone was given the artifact over night, they claim it. When you said that some people started with an artifact, it put an extreme dent in how I was trying to figure out how to use my role. I didn't realize that, so I basically thought that I could catch scum if I found someone using an artifact.

My assumption is that usually scum have some type of blocker. If there aren't that many of us that have actual roles, they might not have a role blocker but possibly an artifact blocker? Although if LLD is claiming true about being a mason and having the artifact that she used last night, I might be wrong on that. I mostly thought that if I were roleblocked it would be useful information to know and would be lost if I didn't use it to see.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Okay fuck it I'm gonna try in this game again

Motivation restored

Tomorrow tho

I just got my covid vaccine today and i am loopy as shit

Also you are great prism

[MathBlade]

I am guessing that scum already have a blocker or are lazy and not googling and don’t have flavor knowledge.

Reason being is that the artifact this AM seems roleblockery.

Not sure how this helps or not. Kinda really losing motivation here. It’s a dick move to push Titus and Cakez is like not vanity and no one is posting.

[Bell]

My personal feeling is that I need to find 4 more town and protect them for all I’m worth to win in the worst case scenario.

Located town: spiffed, LLD. Prism. Bell.

Need 4 more town to rise their hand. I’m not sure we’re going to get much more tractation so I figure it’s probably best just to control an elimination with those four people, take the game out of the scum team’s control as punishment for having lives and not being obv town.