Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[Bell]

Right now, that list is Bork, sircakez, Dgb, math.
I’ll Eliminate any of these folk.

[MathBlade]

My personal feeling is that I need to find 4 more town and protect them for all I’m worth to win in the worst case scenario.

Located town: spiffed, LLD. Prism. Bell.

Need 4 more town to rise their hand. I’m not sure we’re going to get much more tractation so I figure it’s probably best just to control an elimination with those four people, take the game out of the scum team’s control as punishment for having lives and not being obv town.

The only one I agree in that list as obvTown is LLD.
LLD Tammy and Pooky. I like the concept though.

[Tammy]

SirCakez, Mathblade, Spiffeh, Titus

the fuck are you doing off the titus wagon at this point in the game if you legitimately think this

I'm just getting the vibe from 1455 that titus wants to talk more about the reads that aren't legitimate scumreads (math, lld) than the people she's actually scumreading other than cakez. a lot of those other scumreads are heavily laced with plausible deniability

cakez/quiet take seems much ado about nothing to me; i thought cakez' point was pretty salient, that people attacking quiet are kind of doing it recently and therefore more relating to the lack of activity and less about really the content; titus should want to flip quiet here and not cakez because that entire point is predicated on cakez defending a buddy

Bork can you talk about why you have Titus as a scum read now? Yesterday you made it clear that you scum read her, but then at the start of day you kinda moved against it, but are just really focused on the mathblade reasoning. Do you think you can flesh that read out some?

Also, why are you getting after Dunn here? He makes a list of four people, and is on the wagon of the first person in this list (cakez), yet you castigate him for not being on another person on this list.

I'm reading through your iso trying to find a reason why you might be town, but other than tonally liking some of your posts, for the most part they lack nuance and are a bit

buzzword alert

shallow. What do you think of the reasons that people have provided for thinking Titus is town. Unless I'm missing something, that's missing and I don't really understand why. I'm just having a really hard time understanding your approach this game if you're town.

[SirCakez]

im sorry to do this but I have to push the Pooky case to tomorrow - my anxiety has been really bad today and I just can't do it right now

[SirCakez]

Located town: spiffed, LLD. Prism. Bell.

I like this list except I'm still hesitant about spiff

[SirCakez]

i went ahead and submitted a placeholder for my action
i will keep it secret for now

[borkjerfkin]

I'm just gonna work backwards because I'm here now and Tammy posted right to me here:

Bork can you talk about why you have Titus as a scum read now? Yesterday you made it clear that you scum read her, but then at the start of day you kinda moved against it, but are just really focused on the mathblade reasoning. Do you think you can flesh that read out some?

I thought Titus might be town beginning of day because the mastina wagon ended up being on scum, and just the way it built with people quickly switching without much reasoning it smelled of "switching from not-bussing to bussing" to me.

I think more strongly though to me is that Titus went like right back to Mathblade and has kinda just hung out there all day. I also note that her read on me seems mostly commensurate with overall thread feeling about me and not really in relationship to anything I've done.
re: people's reasons for townreading Titus - point to one in particular that we can talk about. I remember Prism saying they thought Titus might be town but I can't find the post right now and if I remember correctly it mostly read as "is being too unbelievably stubborn or dense or something the like" to NOT be town which I just didn't really empathize with when put forward.

Like yeah I'll admit the entire situation needs a reread, and is why I haven't voted there or anywhere today (I've kinda just not been around super much either) I'm just curious as to why you're so focused on that read in particular.

re: Dunn - this was at a point in the game when the Titus wagon was large and the Cakez wagon was not very large and that's a common tactic when scum wants to distance from a partner but not necessarily bus them.

[borkjerfkin]

My claim wasn't really unprompted, I initially thought Cakez and I couldn't exist together but my sense of balance sucks so I thought I'd put it out there for people more adept than me to judge

My response really hasn't changed - I think your roles are anti-synergistic. Why do you think they cannot coexist?

[borkjerfkin]

and really don't understand the angry "I crumbed I was visiting them" as if we're supposed to know that bit.

Not angry at you or anyone for not knowing that, but annoyed that I'm being pegged as happy that sangres is dead when I actually feel the opposite: they'd be able to verify that I did (not that it clears me, but it was an attempt to reach out and make a tentative plan for something else in a future night, but I can't really do any of that now)

[borkjerfkin]

If there's anything I don't like about Spiffeh overall is that his posts read like a caricature of someone angry about being scumread

[borkjerfkin]

Tammy if you have anything more specific you want to engage w/ me on, especially with your saying our reads are similar but you don't like how I got there I'd rather do it in real time then just wallpost and hope it gets reacted to eventually

I do appreciate the reachout even if this is where you currently seem to stand but I want to read this GreyICE/Prism interaction a bit more because I've skimmed it a few times and I don't understand it at all

[borkjerfkin]

PEDIT: Are you claiming to be scum with Cakez? If so... well, I'll take it.

I don't get how we got here and everything after this I think is just degenerate weirdness from that

[SirCakez]

If there's anything I don't like about Spiffeh overall is that his posts read like a caricature of someone angry about being scumread

i got this impression too
he explained his indignance with Dunnstral but he also keeps poking me about it and I'm irked

[Tammy]

I'm just gonna work backwards because I'm here now and Tammy posted right to me here:

Bork can you talk about why you have Titus as a scum read now? Yesterday you made it clear that you scum read her, but then at the start of day you kinda moved against it, but are just really focused on the mathblade reasoning. Do you think you can flesh that read out some?

I thought Titus might be town beginning of day because the mastina wagon ended up being on scum, and just the way it built with people quickly switching without much reasoning it smelled of "switching from not-bussing to bussing" to me.

I think more strongly though to me is that Titus went like right back to Mathblade and has kinda just hung out there all day. I also note that her read on me seems mostly commensurate with overall thread feeling about me and not really in relationship to anything I've done.
re: people's reasons for townreading Titus - point to one in particular that we can talk about. I remember Prism saying they thought Titus might be town but I can't find the post right now and if I remember correctly it mostly read as "is being too unbelievably stubborn or dense or something the like" to NOT be town which I just didn't really empathize with when put forward.

Like yeah I'll admit the entire situation needs a reread, and is why I haven't voted there or anywhere today (I've kinda just not been around super much either) I'm just curious as to why you're so focused on that read in particular.

re: Dunn - this was at a point in the game when the Titus wagon was large and the Cakez wagon was not very large and that's a common tactic when scum wants to distance from a partner but not necessarily bus them.

I'm interested in that read because that read has been your main focus. The majority of your day one was focused around the Titus read such that you suspected people based on Titus/mastina positioning. You got after Mastina for her dumb Prism case, but made it clear that your interest was in Titus.

I'm sitting at is Bork town with just THAT strong of a read on Titus for reasons that I'm not so sure are for certain scum? That isn't to say that I don't agree with your problems about Titus because I did bring up some of the same problems with Titus yesterday. It just feels like it's a major focus with not much more depth. I'm interested in that depth. In part because I want to be able to read you, and I'd like your take. Titus is someone that I've gone back and forth on, and some of your issues with her are somewhat either or.

OR are you scum who's been focusing on Titus because it's easy to find scummy things about Titus and focus on her? I kindaaaa don't think if Titus is scum and a pr as has been suggested that you'd get as cranky as you did yesterday that people were going to mastina instead. But if Titus is town, then your focus for some of the reasons that you suggested, doesn't feel great. (I do like the part where you think Titus should be pushing in a different direction if she were town for some of her reads; I see possible glimmers of town there, but I'm not sure the mathblade issue is as concrete as you presented it (even though I admittedly felt the same way yesterday.)

In short, I'm interested because I'm trying to get a handle on you. If I town read you, then I take your Titus concerns into consideration to balance out with my own reads. Mostly, if you're town, I'd like to get there, and I'm hoping understanding your main read will move the needle for me. It's not the only way, but the Titus read seems to be something you care about.

My claim wasn't really unprompted, I initially thought Cakez and I couldn't exist together but my sense of balance sucks so I thought I'd put it out there for people more adept than me to judge

My response really hasn't changed - I think your roles are anti-synergistic. Why do you think they cannot coexist?

I don't think that anymore. My knee jerk reaction when he claimed was that they couldn't work together, but I think it's entirely possible that two weakish investigates were put in.

[Tammy]

Oh but prism wrote a decently in depth post on Titus yesterday, and I thought you'd might interact with that since you have prism as a decently strong town read.

[Bell]

VOTE: Borkjerfkin

[Prism]

Okay this game is officially lit and I'm going to come back after I eat, but just to make sure I don't miss all the action:

Right now, that list is Bork, sircakez, Dgb, math.
I’ll Eliminate any of these folk.

I'd be game for DGB/Math and might be open to Bork depending on how things continue.

I don't think my point on Grey atm is particularly complex; intuitively I feel like his interactions around me have been all wrong, but lately I think he's been very content to ignore any points for town-Titus in favor of pushing her for playing poorly. (And if he's right, shame on me, but I haven't seen those given fair consideration despite him working so hard to get a reply out of me)

[Prism]

Oh I forgot to actually include this in the above RIP

If you're talking about the recent votes on mastina, who specifically are you spooked by on that wagon?

Honestly? Everyone except Bell and Battle Mage because they weren't interested in Titus to begin with:

any of
Sangres 1716
Prism 1725
your 1831

Feel to me like they could possibly be stay-off-my-buddy votes just because

none of them have any real "I've changed my mind about Titus" to them,

and if mastina flips green there basically has to be scum in there

This isn't really the first time bork has ignored the towncase I've made on Titus, here my 1725 was by a very, VERY thorough review of the slot in 1711 and again I'm inclined to think the interactions w/ mastina point heavily towards her being +town

[Spiffeh]

I want to read because Tammy's here and I love her posts

But I also don't want to read

[Spiffeh]

Mathblade I'm a little confused, I was locktown for you yesterday when I was defending you but today it seems like I am often thrown into your PoE lists.

Can you walk me through why you've changed your mind?

[Spiffeh]

@bork I know you said you're working backwards but can you address these when you get the chance?

DGB - Dunno, just expecting something other than the entrance I got. Might imply Titus is town if flipped scum but I consider the error bars extremely wide on that. Was hoping to be able to put this higher up when the slot turned over but here we are.

How were you reading quiet while he was in the game? I ISO'd you to check but you didn't really mention him much, so does DGB being so low on your reads list have anything to do with him, or is it primarily its performance so far that puts it there?

So given the progression I've laid out, can you explain why my focus on you is more likely to be scum-motivated than Town who thinks everyone should pay more attention to you?

[borkjerfkin]

I'd be game for DGB/Math and might be open to Bork depending on how things continue.

This isn't really the first time bork has ignored the towncase I've made on Titus, here my 1725 was by a very, VERY thorough review of the slot in 1711 and again I'm inclined to think the interactions w/ mastina point heavily towards her being +town

I kinda feel like the winds are changing w/ your opinion of me - can you briefly explain why using content from me in the last couple pages?

[borkjerfkin]

How were you reading quiet while he was in the game? I ISO'd you to check but you didn't really
mention him much, so does DGB being so low on your reads list have anything to do with him, or is it primarily its performance so far that puts it there?

Had virtually nothing on quiet with that ISO - didn't feel like I could confidently gleam anything out of what I got from his 8 or so posts. It's not really the basis for any read I have now.

[Prism]

I'd be game for DGB/Math and might be open to Bork depending on how things continue.

This isn't really the first time bork has ignored the towncase I've made on Titus, here my 1725 was by a very, VERY thorough review of the slot in 1711 and again I'm inclined to think the interactions w/ mastina point heavily towards her being +town

I kinda feel like the winds are changing w/ your opinion of me - can you briefly explain why using content from me in the last couple pages?

I'm currently working through the thread starting from your reads post, as I feel that'll be the best way to get a gauge on your Titus stance, but the short of it is simply that Tammy and Spiffeh both suspect you, and I asked for fresh voices for a reason. I am townreading you for feeling organic with what you're choosing to question/push on, with the response to sangres+claim to have targeted them. I don't anticipate voting you at this time.

Is there a good chance I am wrong on your slot, and that you're pushing Titus because it's free? Absolutely. I'd like to avoid mindlessly sheeping other players against my own read, but that means taking borkscum seriously and not discarding it wholesale.

Finally though, honestly, I just want you to find scum, and I don't think you've done that so far or are used to being put in a position by others to where it's demanded of you. Your wall was good, and the scumreads plausible, but you can go further.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm interested in that read because that read has been your main focus. The majority of your day one was focused around the Titus read such that you suspected people based on Titus/mastina positioning. You got after Mastina for her dumb Prism case, but made it clear that your interest was in Titus.

I'm sitting at is Bork town with just THAT strong of a read on Titus for reasons that I'm not so sure are for certain scum? That isn't to say that I don't agree with your problems about Titus because I did bring up some of the same problems with Titus yesterday. It just feels like it's a major focus with not much more depth. I'm interested in that depth. In part because I want to be able to read you, and I'd like your take. Titus is someone that I've gone back and forth on, and some of your issues with her are somewhat either or.

OR are you scum who's been focusing on Titus because it's easy to find scummy things about Titus and focus on her? I kindaaaa don't think if Titus is scum and a pr as has been suggested that you'd get as cranky as you did yesterday that people were going to mastina instead. But if Titus is town, then your focus for some of the reasons that you suggested, doesn't feel great. (I do like the part where you think Titus should be pushing in a different direction if she were town for some of her reads; I see possible glimmers of town there, but I'm not sure the mathblade issue is as concrete as you presented it (even though I admittedly felt the same way yesterday.)

My play didn't revolve around Titus.
It's the one wagon I got on but it's not where the majority of my engagement lies.

Like I don't even want to go into the rest of this before we get past that point - you're mischaracterizing my opinions on Titus.
If I felt strongly on Titus I'd have come into today and fucking voted her. I was waiting on the mastina flip before I dealt with that, and she flipped in a way that didn't implicate Titus in the way I described.
So I didn't vote there and am mostly reacting to her play today is why I'm conflicted on my mechanical wagon maybe town vs play oriented maybe scum

but I look at your

I'm sitting at is Bork town with just THAT strong of a read on Titus

and wonder if you're reading the same game I am.

that said, I'm not meaning to ignore any post in the game, but I don't appreciate the "bork ignored X <and I don't think he'd do that as town>"
like I ignored the whole fucking forward thread in tenet except when I was feeling on top of my game. You can bet your ass I've glossed over posts and will continue to do that. I'll give it a fair shake now that I've been pointed at it but ???