Newbie 2057: Mars! - End!

[six pomegranate seeds]

It's sad no one else is posting. I'll be at work tomorrow in any case if I don't post anymore tonight.

VOTE: Unvote

[skitter30]

Fine I am fitting a pattern that you think that only mafia can possible fit into. I am going to be clear why I SR you. You seemed to be pushing on one of my biggest TRs in the lobby, and are supposed to be an experienced player. Those two things do not add up. I was not subtly throwing shade on you for your signature. I thought you were pushing a bad suspicion as a good player - which is a good signal for scum in my eyes.

I did not ignore that you were coming around to town reading him - I made note of that several times in my posts. My question to you is - do you really think that SAMCRO is town and if so, who would you vote instead. I guess the answer is that you will vote me. Well I can tell you that I am town. I was not light shading you by suspecting you - I placed my vote on you when no one else did when the vote was clearly between creative samco. If I am mafia and you had previously TR my slot, why would I go about picking a fight with you?

So my question remains unanswered - do you still feel that SAMCO is mafia or would you want to swap votes? I can tell you for a fact I am town, so if you are really town and assume that I am town - then who would you vote?

at this point in time i dont' think i want to vote sam anymore, no
and honestly i'm maybe rethinking my push on you as well (just noting inb4 you call me scummy for backing off)

your analyses and tone are honestly p good to be coming from scum
i am still tripped up on how you originally approached me, but maybe i'm a bit tunneled atm

UNVOTE:
i need to think a bit before i revote, i'm not sure who i think i s scum at this moment

[skitter30]

oh that timing

[skitter30]

I am conflicted about him being mafia. I've never played forum - but do mafia commonly have the highest post count? I've expressed multiple times that I am conflicted about voting creative. But there are things about him that ping scum, especially on d2. On day 1 his info dumps and reaching for reads early felt a little off. Him telling me that I was a TR from d1 then when I start actually speaking changing his mind and voting me is kind of lols. He says that I am paired with SAMCRO because I am defending him this hard, honestly I tend to be more of a busser in the games I play - I guess none of you know that. But if creative looks at how griff argues with SAMCRO #142 I don't really see how others view that as a possible pairing. He's even swapping his vote over his biggest suspicion in what appears to be an attempt to live because "more people are sussing seeds so I will swap votes." Swapping your vote off of your hard sus does not seem very townie to me, neither does self pres voting.

There is the possibility that I am wrong about SAMCRO being a town, in which case I've probably lost town this game by derailing when it seems that town was going to vote him. I do apologize to the townspeople if that ends up being the case. Maybe my d1 counterpart staying in the game would have been better for town in that case

I reread the game this morning Skitter, and I actually do remember from my initial skim agreeing with a lot of your reads before I entered the game. My concern at present - however, is that you seem quite convinced I am mafia to the point it seems you are more concerned with miselimming me than actually interacting with me. My suspicion on you was open to change once we interacted, but your suspicion on me feels like you are trying to muster the troops to vote me rather than exploring whether you think I am genuine or not. I can tell you my reads are 100% genuine so it feels off that you cannot see that.

a couple of notes:
- thanks for elaborating on creative
- scum don't usually (?) have the highest postcount but at the same time it's not like impossible for them too
- don't worry too much about being wrong on samcro if you are, it's just a game :)
- i actually want to note that i was *not* making any attempt to muster the troops to vote you. i basically made no effort to try to bargain, wheedle, or cajole any particular player to vote with me on you

[six pomegranate seeds]

I'll probably just sleep on this and come back tomorrow night. No one hammer please.

[skitter30]

also how do you view your scumgame

also i'm kinda like mentally reviewing my reasons to townread various players and even though i just said i'm not actively pushing samcro i think my reasons for thinkign he may be town are the weakest, and given that (outside of seeds) i don't think i super strongly scumread anybody, i may go back there

pedit sure

[skitter30]

Asking if we have a miselim implies you have completely lost track of the game state to an extent that is hard to do as mafia imo. He's either maliciously attempting to play very dumb as mafia or he's just a lost town which seems more likely to me. Mafia doesn't lose track of how many miselims are left unless they are intentionally playing dumb.

i think he looks like 'lost townie' quite a lot
i don't see myself voting either creative or kaz today

[skitter30]

I'm just going to say I thought this over, I don't know if talking about your scumgame is a townie thing or not, but this response to my sus on her feels like something you could pull out on a lot of players and doesn't feel all that specific to me. Feels like she is talking about a pattern more than she is talking about specific things that I did or said. And that doesn't feel townie to me. Like for example when I use pattern recognition on things like omgusses or reciprocal susses I always try to take the players actions and context into consideration. I'm not seeing a lot of that here. Even blindly following a pattern worked 3 times in the past, that is a sample size of n = 3, and to just be willing to scumbin me from n=3 without wanting to bring in more context does seem lazy to me regardless of what skitter says.

oh i talk about my scumgame all the time as both alignments, that bit is utterly nai

i think the pattern was worht investigating - it's p specifc, and i odn't have any counterexamples, but i have several examples of where this reasoning came from scum exactly, and i've caught scum a few times off of it so

[skitter30]

SAM feels like he's tried too hard to dumbtell/seem new, like, claimed, asked about miselim, has yet to make any solid read except against Creative. Kaz and Sam both, feel like they started with a tunnel on Creative, and didn't think to consider Creative being town, ignored everyone else in the game.

yes this is exactly my vibe from sam ^

[skitter30]

Nvm creative is not obv town

Are you willing to explain this now? This is a pivotal moment in the game imo.

I thought he was big softing a power role.

What power may I ask?

i don't think (new) scum asks this ^

[skitter30]

VOTE: samcro
i feel the best about this rn

[six pomegranate seeds]

He jumped on the bear for a very bad reason and then tried to make it seem like the bear realistically had a chance at ever pushing that BW through only 3 pages into the game. I don't know Pooky, he seems like a jolly bear, but I think this is probably something he does a lot. Then Creative makes a reads list and divides people by high activity and low activity when the day just started! Then says maybe some of the people in low activity are lurking. How do you know if they are actually lurking or not? Maybe they are really not here. If creative could point to a post and say "this seems like lurking" then maybe his post would have validity, but since he just says people are possibly lurking with no actual merit behind that statement it's just a way to subtly shade an entire group of players. NEXT!

Not quite asleep yet. The thought I had trying to fall asleep is about this quote specifically. On initial skim I TR SAMCRO for this. Looking it back over, this argument specifically the bit that creative has no specific posts as examples to prove a player is lurking feels somewhat discordant with the rest of SAMCROs game, i.e. pretending not to be able to figure out to vote when honestly it's not really that hard I figured it out no problem or not knowing how many miselims. Idk just a thought I had. I am wondering whether I am too charitable in interpreting townslips, I've been burned in the past with such things. My gut of not wanting to vote creative raises SAMCRO's scum equity.

Also, frankly, if he's town he played really bad and then decided to afk on us which is lame af.

I'm still not sure who I will vote.

[six pomegranate seeds]

Nvm creative is not obv town

Are you willing to explain this now? This is a pivotal moment in the game imo.

I thought he was big softing a power role.

What power may I ask?

i don't think (new) scum asks this ^

I want to point out that creative is clearly not actually new, the same way that I am clearly not new. New to this website, sure. But the way he talks and thinks he's clearly quite familiar with the game.

[six pomegranate seeds]

also how do you view your scumgame

also i'm kinda like mentally reviewing my reasons to townread various players and even though i just said i'm not actively pushing samcro i think my reasons for thinkign he may be town are the weakest, and given that (outside of seeds) i don't think i super strongly scumread anybody, i may go back there

pedit sure

I have no idea how I would play scum on this site. On my other site I basically try to simulate how I would play as villager and try to use lines or trains of thought I think I would use as a town in that situation. I have a tendency to at least light scum my partner rather than outright TR, and if my partner is fumbling I'll normally just bus them. I always am sure to interact with my partner a decent amount to prevent people from catching on to any distancing. Lately I've tried out TRing and hard defending my partners. Especially if my partner is a newbie sometimes I'll just hard defend them just to be nice. I think probably one tell I have is that I tend to get way more upset as a townsperson, and also have a tendency to be more uncertain. My favorite part of mafia is being a town and trying to solve the game correctly. I don't really enjoy being scum that much.

[skitter30]

I want to point out that creative is clearly not actually new, the same way that I am clearly not new. New to this website, sure. But the way he talks and thinks he's clearly quite familiar with the game.

i don't think he is actually

[six pomegranate seeds]

I want to point out that creative is clearly not actually new, the same way that I am clearly not new. New to this website, sure. But the way he talks and thinks he's clearly quite familiar with the game.

i don't think he is actually

Well okay then.

I do wonder if my reads are actually degrading with time rather than improving lol.

In any case I'll log off for real for the night now.

[skitter30]

he's just saying a lot of things in a bit of an awkward way - like he's familiar with the game on some level but i don't think he's played it much

and g'night! we'll chat again soon :)

[six pomegranate seeds]

One more question to leave you with before I sleep, do you have any doubts on your TRs on Wheme or Kazyan? From my POV if you are really town one of them is likely to be mafia.

Good night.

[skitter30]

ig i question wheme a bit more but i thought his 'no i prefer to answer that question later' thing when asked multiple times was very townie

kaz i also got very strong townvibes throughout the game but maybe i owe this one a reread. it's a little harder for me to articulate this one

[Andante]

Wheme just showing up and making Creative E-1 feels weird to me... ahhhhh idk what the best move here is!!!

Someone pointed out a Sam elim gives up the most info, but like, sam was a strong tr till I reread, I have genuinely tried to formulate reads, whoever is maf is not bad, I will give you that. just cause of how torn half us are on sam, it is almost like, do we just vote sam? Cause if we vote town out here, I about guarantee Sam goes tomorrow.

Kaz struck me as towny, but upon a reread, I was like, it's towny in an easy to fake way... skitter, I do think you are town, and I'll likely vote with you today here

[skitter30]

oh gosh, so much pressure :/
let me reread kaz, i'm not sure i can promise it tonight but i will do so soon

[Andante]

I tr myself, I think I've been towny, but everyone else? idk.. the fact there's at least 1 town in wheme kaz sam, and I don't like any of those ISOs... rip

[Andante]

oh gosh, so much pressure :/
let me reread kaz, i'm not sure i can promise it tonight but i will do so soon

haha all good!!! no pressure don't worry, something just felt off about Ka, reading that ISO, KAz entered d2 with some agenda it felt like?? It's just hard when we have 3 not reading/explaining reads

[Kazyan]

Ok, I see that there's been some major distrust of the way I've played today. You might not want answers from me about that, but I have them.

My "north star" for this game has been the argument between Creative and SAMCRO. I saw SAMCRO go into attack mode and I saw Creative blow up in retaliation, and this whole time, I've remained completely convinced that there must be scum between the two of them due to the veracity of that attack. Therefore, my whole objective for day 2 has been to figure out which of the two are scum. I narrowed down two players that each have a ~50% chance of being Mafia, thus leaving everyone else at a 25% chance, which meant that I didn't care about anyone else--thus the lack of commentary elsewhere. You can

not

take that blowup argument into two rounds of ELo, because unless the town is seriously on top of their game and both peripheral townies take the proper side of the argument, that's just a loss condition. What you

can

do is flip one side of Creative/SAMCRO to try your better 50% odds, and then if they're not scum, vote off the other. Even if you're wrong on your first guess, the ELo you arrive at only requires the correct town deduction instead of two. To me, there was no way that flipping either Creative or SAMCRO wasn't optimal play, unless I could somehow catch the other scum in a pool of twice as many people, which I was really not ready to do. I have a 0% success rate at scumhunting so far.

(The problem with the above plan is that you have to walk up to everyone and say "hey, I'm totally prepared to hammer either of them; I don't care which, lolol". But I can't say that, or everyone turns on me and we lose a townie, which, as I just went over, means that we lose. So I decided to play with that plan, without telling anybody what the plan was. Surprise--that looks super scummy. I'm not great at peforming my towniness, because I care more about getting mafia eliminated than surviving. I gathered a lot of suspicion in Mini Normal 2187 and in Newbie 2054 for this exact problem, and it's recurring. But now I

have

to care about not getting eliminated, because see above.)

What happened next was people splitting down the middle between Creative and SAMCRO--which was bad for two reasons. First, it mant that if a miselimination was had outside of Creative and SAMCRO, there's nothing that Mafia has left to worry about except for an incriminating tracker result. Second, it meant that we didn't even have the votepower to come to a conclusions--two people were MAI.

Once I realized that Whemestar couldn't break the tie no matter who he voted, I kinda started to lose interest, tuned out the peripheral arguments, and eventually started talking about stuff like pizza toppings. No one made any progress on deciding anything, and even the deadline timer froze. I've stopped posting so much because I stopped seeing much of a point.

Thankfully, we got Seeds next. Suddenly we get a strong towncase on SAMCRO from someone who towns very towningly, and provides a new perspective.

I would like for us to come to some kind of consensus on voting. I will admit, forthright now, that I am willing to hammer SAMCRO or to keep my vote parked on Creative, so that we can get both of them eliminated and actually put the game into a winnable state. You can do with that opinion what you want. I very much do not want an elimination on Seeds, Andante, Whemestar, Kazyan, or Skitter. The heat the Seeds has been taking, in particular, is unwarranted.

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: Kazyan

You know, honestly? I wonder if Andante is town and he thought I was playing scummy I should use that as a reference point. I wonder if Kazayan TR me because he is scum. I guess Wheme also TR me though. But I do feel like when I am being attacked by town it's more common for maf to come to my defense. I may be open to this vote tbh.

Crazy question: would it be best to just flip SAM here? If he is town like I think I think he is going to be miselimed like for sure in ELO. And if he is scum then I will lose the game in ELO voting with him. At least flipping SAM here would give us a little bit of information, like to me him flipping blue would make Wheme a pretty strong town, and I feel like Andante feels like a town right now. Also I feel like letting someone win as scum the way SAM played is just bad for the game. And this way I won't feel guilty for throwing if you guys were right that he was scum. Just a thought.

You know what I'm not going to play that game. SAM town, if he's scum I lose.

I wouldn’t go that far with my townread on SAM. Why would you?

The townirsy person here is probably you

Lol man, I really hope this isn't a pocket. What moment did you think was towniest from me?

I believe I answered this