Okay I'm on a computer for a few minutes while I'm icing my ankle and then it's back to my tablet and the possibility of passing out lol.
I'm pulling out your red quotes Prism:
This felt extremely town to me at the time, and on most rereads. I can see a world where bork is trying to fish out where he's going wrong, but bork had previously been pretty annoyed by several ~not ideal~ suggestions by sangres beforehand, such as in 1088 and with the voteswaps around mastina. The disappointment and demand line up well with someone who has high expectations of both players in the sangres slot.
Yeah they definitely had interactions, and quite frankly the suggestion that he's responding to in 1088 is one I remember not really agreeing with or paying much attention to at the time, but you giving the artifact to Bork never really interested me in the way that it maybe should have. I thought your early play seemed pretty town and didn't think you were the kind of player that would teehee give their partner an artifact and flavor claim in the beginning of the game, and the way you interacted with Bork about the artifact felt town to me and reinforced my initial town read. So really all I thought was that you were unlikely to be partners, so that was her inquiry and I just shrugged my shoulders about it. But the point there is that she had expressed some suspicion previously; it wasn't coming from nowhere.
The prior sentence confuses me because both are extremely understandable things to be frustrated about, not that people should know it but that bork softed visiting sangres, wanted to visit them, wanted to townblock, felt bad about being wrong on the mastina wagon, only to have them die instead. To be blunt, the sangres visit claim is absolutely brilliant as scum
It felt like he was getting after spiffeh for not knowing that. And that seemed a bit unfair and odd to expect him to know that.
I guess you kind of get it here but I just...don't really see the same scum intent here that you do, honestly. I reviewed the deflection about you to Spiffeh. I can see why he'd say it as scum, but I see the town bork world too, and I don't think he's seriously pushing you?
Hmmm. I think you're thinking that when I'm looking at these things that I'm saying Bork is scum here for doing this. I do think that a town bork would also push spiffeh for something that seemed like selective scumhunting, but it felt odd to me to blanket compare the two as the same. ffery did get paranoid a couple times, I knew she would, and wanted nacho to give her support there. Which, side note, if Nacho had the tiniest glimmer that i was scum here I'd have been dead the moment afternoon started lol. That's besides the point, but it felt odd to me that it was just a blanket comparison when I don't think they were exactly the same. I wasn't meaning he was pushing me for that. It was a problem I had.
But I think where we might be getting crossed here is that I'm not writing this to say this is why Bork is scum. I'm writing this as a way of working out my read on Bork. (I'm now remembering the other night I gave a possible solve that included Bork. I forgot about that. That might be coloring why you think this is a scum case instead of me trying to work out my read on Bork. I did feel that solve in the moment. I don't think that solve is right.)
I think what you're missing is that you've been very demonstrative as to your process, such as in the "all mixed up" post and in 1087, but the result is more often than not ambivalence. For the most part, I'm the only one you've really gone to bat for, which is great, but Bork-and I-both really want to see you go to bat on other slots and take stronger stances (Not that you have to fake them, but that this is the missing link for me, and I suspect for bork too)
Yeah, that's me. I don't think that Bork would expect anything different than that or really stronger stances. Nobody who knows me really would, especially not early. There are some games where my reads come easier; xenoblade was one such game but it moved so fast and made so many pages that I was mostly hip firing my reads and they just happened to be right. I'm probably one of the biggest wafflers you will ever meet; it's so well known that people tried to get a title for me years ago. My posts a lot of the time are me trying to process and work out what I'm seeing and thinking; it squicks people out sometimes who don't know me because they think I'm trying to make a show of what I'm thinking until they get used to me. And then sometimes people will still get after me for posting a lot about nothing. But I work best with people who understand my process and work with it. I don't expect everyone to, and I'm capable of getting things done on my own, but one thing I've always appreciated about Spiffeh is that he's been good at picking out some of the important things in my ramblings and working with me. And nacho's always good about pointing out which of my thoughts are dumb. (You said you don't know how to read me really, and here's one thing. Once you figure out what my wheel's turning looks like vs what I'm trying to make it look like my wheel's are turning, I'm pretty easy to figure out. I do lack a certain bite as scum that is present when I get frustrated as town usually, especially with a friend, but rarely if ever as scum in that way. I'd point out some other things, but my luck is going to run out with drawing town soon I know it, and I'd rather not make it easier to catch me than it already will be.)
You are a strong read I have. I also have a strong townread on Bell, and I had a decently strong townread on Sangres day one. I do also have a decently strong town read on Spiffeh though I do have a little paranoia that I could be wrong there that I keep just going shh shh shh don't worry about it. I do also feel decently strong about Mathblade being town, but there's a little paranoia there too mostly because of how strongly bell scum reads mathblade and one of my mafia weaknesses is feeling I might be wrong when someone else expresses a strong read. Actually now that I think about it, I've had town and scum pools, and I think they've been okayish strong for me even thought they've been in flux. So now I'm just rambling and not sure I'm making sense. (This is not to say I never have strong scum reads. I do sometimes, and I tunnel and will push why they're scum, but still a good number of my posts are going to be me making sense of my view of people and the game.) I take some getting used to.
I, and several other players, have actively pitched just going "fuck it mathblade ig" and while this might be free for borkscum, him telling us to stop being morons 100% makes sense imo
I was one of the people who said I'd hammer there out of frustration, so yeah I know. I can't find the post that I thought existed in which he was scumreading people for wanting to policy there, so I maybe made that up.
But I think here is that all of this stuff he can also do as town, and I'm aware of that. But it's a town read I don't/didn't have and one I'd really like to have, and one I thought I'd have by now. And now I'm not even sure I care about any of my thoughts anymore because I feel bad that I got pissy when I'm trying not to be such a bitch in mafia and get so emotionally invested that I get toxic. But I do like that he looked at the old game you posted and made a comparison. I do like his end reaction to my reaction in some sense, I don't really want to be more townread because I got bitchy I want it because my play is town, but recognizing that if I were scum here I'd probably have used all that build up to put a vote on him is probably what I would have done. Maybe. Probably. I've definitely done something like that before.
Now that I've made a huge mess of thoughts about me and Bork and my approach, I'm going to stop. It's late and I'm going to get back to reading mastina until I pass out.
I'm really just a fucking sweetheart though
