Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[Tammy]

Titus - How well does mathbladeread you typically?

[Tammy]

I don't have a townread on Tammy, largely on account of regular insertion of RL excuses, especially when related to demotivation and lack of participation. That's a scumtell to me. I reckon I am in the minority reading that as scum behavior.

But can you answer this?

there are other players that can read me correctly.

I used to be fairly decent at it. I wonder if I still am.

Do you have a read on GreyIce?

[Tammy]

A chainsaw is when someone attacks the attacker of someone else.

For example, Adam attacks Brian. Charlie then attacks Adam usually for his attack on Brian. That's a chainsaw.

Sometimes a chainsaw is from scum defending a partner but not always. It can and commonly is town defending town.

Catching up now.

A chainsaw defense is where scum

defends a buddy

by attacking their attacker. Because otherwise, attacking someone who is attacking someone else is called

playing a game of mafia.

Because any post that says 'this argument is crappy, what are you doing' is FUCKING PLAYING THE GAME.

This is "reasons for voting are scummy" except fucking serious. Which you realized midway through, because you FUCKING REALIZED THE SAME THING I SAID ABOVE.

GreyICE is someone I should review. The willing to murder me and chainsaw defense was odd. mastina's play around me was odd. Scum's play around me as a whole was odd.

This is "I read my buddy's ISO and wow I look like shit after that flip."

You can’t seriously be arguing looking outside of Titus after these posts.

Seriously Grey?

When you're right, you're right.

Vote: Titus

How much of your accusation that titus read Mastina iso and realized she looked bad is hyperbole and how much is that something you’re actually pushing?

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral

- Very cranky, wastes a lot of posts on relative nonsense. Was willing to vote anybody yesterday, but was cagey about mastina. To wit, Dunnstral's #1060:

Yes, I agree

BM's iso is bad

Titus is also bad

I think

sircakez is bad

I'd probably vote for these players today
lld, how confident are you right now?

Mastina not so much for me, but she's weird.

I also don't like the "lld, how confident are you right now?" because that's some pretty sly abandonment of responsibility on LLD. If Dunn is scum; LLD is town.

This feels like a pretty aggressive misrep

[Tammy]

Cakez - Thank you for writing your case, not necessarily because it tells me anything new about Pooky, but I kinda want to put to bed my suspicions on you for it, I think.

THESIS
Pooky's entire day 1 strategy revolved around buddying people and coasting until he got pressure from me for it. After that point, he dedicated the rest of his day to an essentially OMGUS push on me INCLUDING SIGNIFICANTLY AT THE KEY POINT WHERE IT WAS EITHER MASTINA OR I WHO WAS GOING TO BE ELIMMED.
He did not perform ANY original scumhunting day 1 - all of his pushes day 1 consist of either sheeping or attacking people who attacked him.
He used being leashed to LLD as an excuse to not take responsibility for his vote.
He repeatedly expressed fake-ass indignation that anyone could be scumreading him - despite all of the above.

Not on my computer at the moment, so I’m just pulling that. I agree that all of these are problematic from Pooky, they are in large part why he’s been giving me problems this game, and every time he tries to use the Mastina protocol or whatever it is to say he’s confirmed town, I want to reach through my screen and rip the stuffing outta that bear. And while I don’t think typically scum actually try to abdicate responsibility for their vote in such a blatant way, the leashing thing is stupid and juvenile and I wish they’d stop.

So this is mostly to say that I read your case, I understand and some of those things bother me too, except the buddying as a buddies myself it’s not inherently scummy, but I’m not entirely sure it’s from scum. I wish I had experience with Pooky town to know if my concerns aren’t just playstyle rather than alignment indicative. I have appreciated his thread health moments that haven’t felt like posturing. And I liked his post about the mason issue because in a sense it felt like he was opening himself up to suspicion on that part, and we both know that he’ll happily pretend to be a mason as scum. And the moments in Between the above feel natural and I like his presence at those times. The possibility that he could be a mason too is enough for me to consider he’s just town here as well.

[Prism]

friendship ended w/ petapan

whatever me/nacho even are ended w/ nacho

now tammy is my new best friend

[Dunnstral]

Sorry if DGB feels like I target them; I don't, I just don't see anything towny about their play here, there predecessor definitely site flaked but I still have problems with that, and also I don't like their current push on me

[Lady Lambdadelta]

hey so

Prism what's your feelings on bork

[Prism]

Very very town imo, there's a chance I'm wrong but I doubt it. This has come from multiple angles, starting out with just his lack of concern for how he's positioned (big towntell given my experience with him where, to quote Wallows, his scum style both in strength and in weakness is best summarized as "Looking for a sense of relation/Where do people want me to be?"), transitioning into tonally town for the sangres reaction, into town for the interaction with Tammy yesterday and immediately moving to nip any concerns I had about Tammy in the bud over sitting back and watching potential fireworks.

[Prism]

Why? Whatchu thinkin'?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Why? Whatchu thinkin'?

Eh, been getting weird vibes from them, and their position on the mastina reads list feels like the shakiest. Like Mastina scum makes bork look the worst, IMO

[Prism]

Can you elaborate on what posts give you weird vibes?

Rereading the mastina side of the interactions, I don't think they point to town bork but they're not actively scummy imo. There is one thing that I might bring up later here, but not just yet.

Bork being skeptical of the mastina wagon is the worst part of the slot imo, but was understandable to me and definitely gets redeemed elsewhere.

[Dunnstral]

I said gut town for Bork yesterday but I think I'm back to gut neutral after consideration

Here is a succint case for why they

could

be scum:

-They went out of their way to leave hints that they thought I was a mason. It's possible that he really though I could be mason and went on to kill somebody else because maybe my reads at the time were bad, or maybe they thought someone else needed to die, and he wanted to be able to point back at it and say that because I didn't die he was more likely to be town.
-When I argued that they should be seeing me as town they got defensive even though it wasn't meant as an attack on them; they defaulted to saying 'this isn't how you'd read me' instead of reevaluating (and indeed didn't reevaluate)
-Their read on me is weird. They can't really explain why I'm a scumread but repeatedly put me in their poe but don't really do anything with that read. I think there is at least one scum phoning it in and calling me scum.
-The dead guy thought they could be scum, which isn't a grand slam but they do have some familiarity with each other.

[Titus]

Titus - How well does mathbladeread you typically?

He only reads me as town as scum. As town, he scumreads disagreement. He doubles down on bad logic, even when proven false. As scum, he must fake it. He'll scumread me if I am right.

[Dunnstral]

I think mastina is the type of player to think "I'd townread x here as town, so I have to say I townread them" without considering the gamestate.

For example, when she called me town that threw me off, but I think she'd do that as scum just because she thinks she'd think that as town, and she's hyper-sensitive to deviating from that because she is paranoid others will catch her on that.

With that in mind, I think that looking for motives in her interactions is the wrong way to go about this.

[Titus]

@Cakez, We agree on practically everything, yet you feel my posts are bad. Cog dis?

[Dunnstral]

(big towntell given my experience with him where, to quote Wallows, his scum style both in strength and in weakness is best summarized as "Looking for a sense of relation/Where do people want me to be?")

Could this not explain his weird read on me?

[Spiffeh]

LLD if there was anytime I wanted you to throw your Mason weight around it is now and for a bork lim

(I will be here tomorrow to legitimately catch up on what I’ve missed since yesterday)

[Titus]

Bork is a bad elimination.

It's DGB BM and one of Cakez/Pooky/Math/LLD.

[MathBlade]

Titus - How well does mathbladeread you typically?

He only reads me as town as scum. As town, he scumreads disagreement. He doubles down on bad logic, even when proven false. As scum, he must fake it. He'll scumread me if I am right.

I have a predisposition towards scumreading you because you are scummy.

Like you’re literally misrepping me so hard it’s not even funny/moon logic anymore.

It’s just bad.

Gonna watch Critical Role at this point.

Not sure how much repeating the same damn thing is going to be of any use and everyone has made up their minds to do the stupid thing and not look on the Cakez wagon so like...just discouraged.

[MathBlade]

@Cakez, We agree on practically everything, yet you feel my posts are bad. Cog dis?

It’s because he’s scum Titus imho.

Either you or he are.

[MathBlade]

If you’re town he’s employed exactly what I said my scum strategy is or if you don’t know what to do agree with someone who is incorrect.

It’s pretty blatant. I am just trying to figure out if I am wrong on you to tunnel Cakez.

[Titus]

Again, Math posts are totally divorced from reality.

1) He whines about people not looking at the Cakez wagon. I have the most votes.

2) He argues Cakez is scum and that his partners all decided to bus him. (That's a Cakez Dunn Titus team).

3) He argues that Pooky crumbed being a mason still despite Pooky saying not a crumb in 2559.

4) He argues for two scumkills, yet doesn't push LLD for an explanation as to what happens with the artifacts as that would be the most logical source for a second scumkill.

Mathblade's response here is to discredit and divert attention from DGB and BM. Either it's because of partners or it doesn't fit into his absurd theory.

[GreyICE]

Okay, I'm doing some work for people that basically doesn't really involve me, but kind of involves me, and saves someone from a deadline tomorrow.

Yes, this is a 'catchup coming' post, but one I'm personally annoyed by because I promised it.

[Prism]

(big towntell given my experience with him where, to quote Wallows, his scum style both in strength and in weakness is best summarized as "Looking for a sense of relation/Where do people want me to be?")

Could this not explain his weird read on me?

Both sides of this conversation are hard for me to follow. Day 1 he's kind of sniping at you for things similar to me/sangres, takes a hairpin turn when he reads your 1125 (that according to today's wall are b/c he thinks you're a mason). I thought you were softing mason at one point Day 1 but looking at this 1125+ sequence I can only see one post that I'd take that way? Today immediately calls you out for not being on Titus. I scratch my head at the "Why do you scumread me if we have the same PoE?" argument here since I don't think those are exclusive, eg. my own scumread on DGB.

So maybe, if we're talking about your slot specifically? In general though I feel like the answer this game is a resounding "No", in that for entire stretches of 2181 bork was noticeably unsure of when to interact with certain slots, how he should do so, whether he should do so at all, and consistently opted to play passively. The exceptions are when he felt threatened and would overshoot it out of fear (forcing a 1v1 with me Day 1). bork opened Day 2 of that game not interacting with his top scumread at all, and when called on it decided it would be a good idea to openwolf to try and trade 1 for 1.

He's uncertain on your slot but I think hasn't been afraid to call you out or engage with you and I definitely don't think has been positionally paralyzed and clueless. Skimming illicit substances he ran into the exact same issue even early game of waiting nervously to see how things happened over taking more initiative, the few stances he took were very meh.

In contrast here it doesn't matter who it is: me, sangres, Tammy, if it's bullshit he wants to know why we think that, and holds us to a high standard that is very natural imo