Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[MathBlade]

Again, Math posts are totally divorced from reality.

1) He whines about people not looking at the Cakez wagon. I have the most votes.

2) He argues Cakez is scum and that his partners all decided to bus him. (That's a Cakez Dunn Titus team).

3) He argues that Pooky crumbed being a mason still despite Pooky saying not a crumb in 2559.

4) He argues for two scumkills, yet doesn't push LLD for an explanation as to what happens with the artifacts as that would be the most logical source for a second scumkill.

Mathblade's response here is to discredit and divert attention from DGB and BM. Either it's because of partners or it doesn't fit into his absurd theory.

1) Votes are there but no one is hunting it. Like 75% posts plus are about people off the wagon.
2) Cakez/Dunn/you is a PoE I have said several times.
3) He neither confirmed nor denied which is the right play.
4) I don’t know enough to begin to push that. Half of the game is hidden by scum in the OP. It’s a prevailing theory. It could be a vig. We don’t have enough to push either way. I just think if it was a town vig it would have been on Quiet.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Cakez

I am going back here. I don’t think scum you is this bad.

[Prism]

LLD if there was anytime I wanted you to throw your Mason weight around it is now and for a bork lim

(I will be here tomorrow to legitimately catch up on what I’ve missed since yesterday)

I would strongly advise catching up before you rally more troops.

[Prism]

Rereading 2181 he's a bit bold with pushing/calling out Cabd but it's...extremely limited up until bork decides to harddefend a scum partner, and bork's entire focus that game was mainly around generating believable interactions with a scum partner (which paid off!). The one time he went fishing for a push he got burned super hard and Day 2 on he just flounders pretty aimlessly.

Arguably he was down to defend mastina by going similarly aggressive on me/sangres? iuno. Guess I'll hit the town meta.

[Prism]

There are imo some limited problems with this slot (Needing me to explicitly challenge, arguably fishing for what went wrong from sangres/Spiffeh, and missing my point on Titus) but I don't really see myself voting here RIP

Fundamentally, I am one vote and borkscum would definitely spend some time working around me in the wake of 2181. Skimming Tenet it was a bit different than this game, but fundamentally that...makes a ton of sense. If two players with a lot more experience with him (Tammy/Spiffeh) that I both think the odds are favorable then like, fuck maybe, I'm not the dictator of the town and me spending entire day phases pushing one scum while hard townreading the other is nothing new.

[Tammy]

Titus - How well does mathbladeread you typically?

He only reads me as town as scum. As town, he scumreads disagreement. He doubles down on bad logic, even when proven false. As scum, he must fake it. He'll scumread me if I am right.

Hmmm that’s kinda interesting. I asked because I’m trying to make sense of your dynamic. My only experience with the two of you, or even mathblade pretty sure, was a game you guys hydrad in years ago.

Unless I’m misunderstanding you seem like you read him as decently town but would policy if the overposting gets out f hand

But he seems pretty sure on scum you, and you don’t seem perturbed by that, which I found a bit interesting. So I thought if he normally gets you right but is wrong here, and you’re not annoyed or suspicious in return that could be telling, but if he’s not really that great at reading you then maybe it doesn’t phase you at all, and if you were scum and he was pushing you as scum would you not be a bit more aggressive in response? Because I know as scum you’re a fighter. You used to be a fighter as town too but tenet suggests that a lot of us are not the same players we used to be. But I was looking at the wagons today, and you’ve been the leading one for the majority of it and you seem reserved to it, and I’m thinking about sign ups where you and nacho talked about wishing for a scum role on and being burnt out on town, and I’m now wondering if that’s not a part of your reaction to the reads your email getting.

[Tammy]

Don’t know where email came from in that post, I think my tablet has a mind of its own,

[Tammy]

hey so

Prism what's your feelings on bork

Can you talk about your read on greyice at some point?

I’ll admit to not being the best greyice reader. I’m pretty sure one of the only times I got his alignment correct was when we were masons, and most of the other times he’s been in my possible or decently strong townreads as scum, so a little help would be nice because he’s not in my town reads right now.

My first concern was the way he called you scum, and a few times threw out the possibility of you as scum. He does not scum read you. I went back and looked at alisae and pine I think it was, which I had loosely followed, and he clearly scum read you there and pointed out why, whereas here there is no bite. Here’s my question is this just a kinda trolling interaction he’s having with you because why not and that’s totally cool if so OR is he feigning a bit of paranoia at you?)

I thought he started the Mastina wagon yesterday but looking back over things that isn’t the case. He was third after mathblade and bell though mathblade didn’t stick around for long, and his vote on Mastina was almost from a dare by Mastina to get on the wagon, which he did. I do very much like his interactions with Mastina because he called her out on all her bullshit, but I would have expected him to rally the troops onto Mastina more than he did.

His titus push feels off, mainly the argument that she read Mastina iso and saw how bad she looked and was responding out of that oh shit kinda of way, which doesn’t ring true when titus was aware of Mastina s treatment of her yesterday, and recognizing that scums treatment of you was wrong can easily come from town too. (I know that’s not the crux of his case but that bit hit wrong)

His bit about prism being scum and he got there by accident and is just that good hit wrong too.

Are these dumb concerns?

[Tammy]

friendship ended w/ petapan

whatever me/nacho even are ended w/ nacho

now tammy is my new best friend

[MathBlade]

Not sure Tammy.

I can’t tell. Everyone seems to be looking for who bussed Mastina rather than on the Cakez wagon to see if it’s a double.

This critical role episode is such a nail biter.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

hey so

Prism what's your feelings on bork

Can you talk about your read on greyice at some point?

I’ll admit to not being the best greyice reader. I’m pretty sure one of the only times I got his alignment correct was when we were masons, and most of the other times he’s been in my possible or decently strong townreads as scum, so a little help would be nice because he’s not in my town reads right now.

My first concern was the way he called you scum, and a few times threw out the possibility of you as scum. He does not scum read you. I went back and looked at alisae and pine I think it was, which I had loosely followed, and he clearly scum read you there and pointed out why, whereas here there is no bite. Here’s my question is this just a kinda trolling interaction he’s having with you because why not and that’s totally cool if so OR is he feigning a bit of paranoia at you?)

I thought he started the Mastina wagon yesterday but looking back over things that isn’t the case. He was third after mathblade and bell though mathblade didn’t stick around for long, and his vote on Mastina was almost from a dare by Mastina to get on the wagon, which he did. I do very much like his interactions with Mastina because he called her out on all her bullshit, but I would have expected him to rally the troops onto Mastina more than he did.

His titus push feels off, mainly the argument that she read Mastina iso and saw how bad she looked and was responding out of that oh shit kinda of way, which doesn’t ring true when titus was aware of Mastina s treatment of her yesterday, and recognizing that scums treatment of you was wrong can easily come from town too. (I know that’s not the crux of his case but that bit hit wrong)

His bit about prism being scum and he got there by accident and is just that good hit wrong too.

Are these dumb concerns?

I don't have a great read on him right now, mostly because I have the luxury of living with him and knowing how his work has been going, so it's a matter of like

how much of his touch and go shots at people are just flexing to gain reads but not having time to follow up and how much is just putting on the ritz? really hard to tell cause it's not like he's pretending to be busy

So right now my GreyICE read is "eh, he could die but I wanna give him the opportunity to flex his skill a bit before we do that."

ESPECIALLY when he was right on Mastina day 1, and we have a scum yeet day 1, so we have more space to work with right?

It's not the time for that road.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Speaking of, I have an incredible urge to murder titus for calling me scum again and again despite my mason claim at this point

like i just don't see what titus accomplishes by doing it and i wonder if the accomplishment isn't just "shouting into the void to be seen as doign something"

[MathBlade]

Yeah I have that urge too LLD. I just think it’s too dumb to be scum, but part of me wonders if it is intentional. Like I get what you’re saying.

Let’s assume Titus is scum here. Who would be okay with her pushing you/a possible mason?

Like I am actively resisting pushing her to avoid a drag out fight with her but not posting just how bad what she is doing is taking a lot of restraint.

[penguin_alien]

Afternoon Vote Count 2.06

Afternoon 2 will end in (expired on 2021-03-14 12:31:37)

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 votes to Bronze

Titus (4): DrippingGoofball, GreyICE, Battle Mage, SirCakez
borkjerfkin (1): Spiffeh
DrippingGoofball (3): Titus, Dunnstral, Prism
Mathblade (1): Bell
SirCakez (1): Mathblade

Not voting (4): Tammy, Lady Lambdadelta, borkjerfkin, PookyTheMagicalBear

Mod notes: Lady Lambdadelta is V/LA
34/70 pages used

[DrippingGoofball]

Speaking of, I have an incredible urge to murder titus for calling me scum again and again despite my mason claim at this point

like i just don't see what titus accomplishes by doing it and i wonder if the accomplishment isn't just "shouting into the void to be seen as doign something"

I read it as town.

Scum can say they believe you all day long and NK you. Townies don't know for sure if you're town and have to lay out their doubts in broad daylight.

[Prism]

Maybe I should just give up the ghost and accept that DGB is God itself, correct reads up and down the board with no sweat, calmly and patiently pointing out every error made by others like a Zen master....except to whack Titus with the "ur bad" bat ofc

But to me this slot is blatantly informed about alignments between Pooky, Cakez, Titus, me/Math, etc. and throwing LLD in scumleans awhile back does not change this imo

[MathBlade]

I am not seeing what you say is blatant. Can you please expand on this?

[Prism]

The list of "correct townreads" imo is the explanation, Pooky as probably the best example, in that DGB has very easily seen what has taken me, Tammy, Spiffeh, etc. eons of working through the game to see and then some with virtually no trouble. I'm not the best scumhunter and it takes me 5x the effort as anyone else to get even remotely close, but this inherently makes me very skeptical. She's also pinpointing basically why the reads are/would be right extremely easily without having to delve into the nuanced counters or having to work through the harder weeds.

[Prism]

My apologies for the incorrect pronouns above DGB.

[MathBlade]

The list of "correct townreads" imo is the explanation, Pooky as probably the best example, in that DGB has very easily seen what has taken me, Tammy, Spiffeh, etc. eons of working through the game to see and then some with virtually no trouble. I'm not the best scumhunter and it takes me 5x the effort as anyone else to get even remotely close, but this inherently makes me very skeptical. She's also pinpointing basically why the reads are/would be right extremely easily without having to delve into the nuanced counters or having to work through the harder weeds.

So it’s scum because it agrees with you?

I don’t see how agreeing with you is informed.

This also is drastically different than the scum meta I linked earlier.

It’s also not getting into fights either.

I am not really following how agreeing with you is informed.

Do you have an example?

[Prism]

I explicitly gave you both multiple examples and one hallmark one in that post and it's on you to track through it, DGB's ISO is not extensive.

"Scum because it agrees with you" is very reductive. If you disagree that it seems to be informed, OK, but this is fundamentally subjective and I'm not going to continue this debate further.

[MathBlade]

A> I am not debating, I am trying to see where your read comes from.

B> Explaining your DGB case would, if good, bring more people onto DGB.

C> DGB has few to no posts (have to double check) before I outed my theory Pooky is a mason. So a Pooky townread is not a stretch there.

I am trying to help get an explanation for DGB scum other than quiet lurked on D1. This was the closest to something actually representing a reason. If you’re town please don’t shut this down.

[Bell]

VOTE: DGB

Sure.

[Titus]

I am trying to help get an explanation for DGB scum other than quiet lurked on D1.

DGB being scum is likely why scum couldn't flip the wagon to Cakez.

[MathBlade]

I am trying to help get an explanation for DGB scum other than quiet lurked on D1.

DGB being scum is likely why scum couldn't flip the wagon to Cakez.

This is a fancy way of saying DGB was a lurker therefore scum.
It also assumes Cakez’s alignment.

It also assumes a majority of scum left on Cakez which you’re not proposing.