Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[Andresvmb]

@Cookie Monster I think you’re wrong about both Datisi and VPB being Scum together. That just doesn’t seem right. I actually think that VPB set out to pocket Datisi after a certain while. They first had Datisi as null but once Datisi expressed a TR, VPB has hardened their TR read on Datisi because it’s working out very well for them. That’s a theory.

[VP Baltar]

VPB has been sarcastic about arguments against them.

Oh dear

[VP Baltar]

This is a very strong reaction to a midway vote, Andres.

I'd love for you to illustrate the momentum that exists for a midway wagon that I'm exploiting.

[VP Baltar]

Also,

mod: your vote count is wrong. I'm on midway

<<Fixed. Apologies.>>

[Andresvmb]

It’s not a reaction to your vote. I’ve been feeling this whole time that I’m way off with every push I make. I sided with you against RLotus and that has over time started to feel wrong. I started pushing Green Crayons, and that again started to feel like it was wrong. Particularly after their claim. Then I pushed Cookie Monster, and based on their reaction, I really doubt they’re Scum. And then I read your ISO, and I realized that the game started to make some sense if you assume that you’re Scum. So that’s how I landed here.

[Andresvmb]

Your jump on Italiano is actually quite Scummy. I don’t know how I didn’t see that before.

[VP Baltar]

Your jump on Italiano is actually quite Scummy. I don’t know how I didn’t see that before.

It's not though? I was very transparent with why I voted italiano. The fact you had a go nowhere vote, made a big deal out of examining the wagon, forced a GC claim (off wagon), and now are trying to make hay on me for weak sauce seems more scummy...but what you do you.

[VP Baltar]

But then there seems to be some momentum against midwaybear

Again, where's the momentum toward midwaybear muh guy

[Andresvmb]

Your jump on Italiano is actually quite Scummy. I don’t know how I didn’t see that before.

It's not though? I was very transparent with why I voted italiano. The fact you had a go nowhere vote, made a big deal out of examining the wagon, forced a GC claim (off wagon), and now are trying to make hay on me for weak sauce seems more scummy...but what you do you.

Weak sauce? How are they weak sauce? I really do think you helped instigate the seemingly permanent Duchess v. Green Crayons fight. You have tried to get RLotus to stop TR’ing me repeatedly. You’ve encouraged Datisi interminably in their push on Dunn which you yourself of course have tried to carry out. And when you had massive pull with Datisi D1, instead of trying to dissuade them aggressively away from Italiano who you TR, you decided to succumb to their bad points and vote there. For information and consolidation. Which are really weak reasons to consolidate anywhere in my view, which you agreed with when I expressed them D1. You also made a silly post trying to coerce a hammer. And despite you SR’ing RLotus at various points throughout the game, you’ve made the point that they’re too Scummy to be Scum. And every now and then keep asking them questions. Which is bizarre to me.

[Andresvmb]

Like you’ve tried to insert an out on every SR you have expressed (did it with Elements too, saying you didn’t have much confidence it was correct), except for Dunn.

[Andresvmb]

More people should consider this lol

There’s no momentum, yet midwaybear felt the need to post this? So I’m just making it up?

[VP Baltar]

I really do think you helped instigate the seemingly permanent Duchess v. Green Crayons fight.

GC, was I instigating the fight you had with duchess?

[VP Baltar]

You have tried to get RLotus to stop TR’ing me repeatedly.

RLotus, do you feel like I've tried to influence your read of Andres in anyway?

[VP Baltar]

You’ve encouraged Datisi interminably in their push on Dunn which you yourself of course have tried to carry out.

Datisi, have I encouraged you to tunnel Dunn in anyway?

[Andresvmb]

GC town

Go on

As in, why specifically is GC town here, and do you think Duchess is scum?

He isn't being cagey about his reads in that post. He is using a metaphor to explain his viewpoint

those were 2 separate points.
you just assumed they were one and the same.

Then explain specifically where he is being cagey about his reads. I don't see it and need an explanation

I don't know exactly what kind of push I was expecting to see, but if I recall correctly there was some discussion just before that time of Italiano possibly being an easy early push, and what I saw pinged me, so I wanted to nip it in the bud.

This post is screaming TMI

Do you think Duchess and Italiano are scum together? Or that duchess was scum trying to pocket a low hanging fruit townie?

Bring the smoke then, a vote puts about as much pressure on me as the bottom of a puddle.

Are you usually this combative as town? Or is this game pissing you off?

You call that combative?

As a reformed toxic player, I'm sure you wouldn't understand casual combativeness.

Yeah, I think Duchess had a bit of a bad faith response to GC

VP, where did I respond in bad faith to GC?

You've called his posting strawmanning and loaded questions variously, which seems combative when you could just answer the questions.

You also seem to be telling RTP to bring it. Your overall demeanor seems aggressive. Just curious if that 'fight me' attitude is common to your town play.

You did. Trying to argue that you didn’t is laughable.

[VP Baltar]

instead of trying to dissuade them aggressively away from Italiano who you TR, you decided to succumb to their bad points and vote there. For information and consolidation.

Yep! A yeet D1 is better than no yeet. I will sheep a town read. I don't care if that brings heat. It is much better than voting an off wagon that is never going to happen. I pushed multiple people I felt stronger about y'day and couldn't quite get the wagons there. That's verifiable

[VP Baltar]

You did. Trying to argue that you didn’t is laughable

K man. I'm not arguing anything. Asking the people directly who you are saying I'm manipulating. Seems fair.

[Andresvmb]

- his way of dismissing/shading me gives me vibes of scum who wants to scumread me but doesn't know how / doesn't want me to get back on their ass again - like for the amount of things he implies are scummy about me i don't see how he can have me as lolnull

Which posts of his do you feel like he is implying you're scummy?

i went to look for these but i opened my own iso instead of italiano's, and it took me a good 5 seconds to figure out why italiano's posts aren't appearing on the screen

anyway

615 gives me the vibe of shading me for not giving him the same ~benefit of the doubt~ that i apparently want for myself
which i did call out at the time (618), i don't think i got a response

1./5. the game is dead because 4-5 people are barely playing or not playing at all and the moderator had abandoned us for half a week too. wow.

The fact that it doesn't at least somewhat frustrate you or allow you to understand why someone else would be frustrated by it is telling to me.

i was calling out the "this game is dead, i can't figure it out" thing as blatantly obvious to figure out, and his conclusion from that is that it's weird that i'm not frustrated by it (which is false and i never said that but besides the point) and that it's "telling" to him. what's it telling?

You scumreading me for your reasons are goofy to me, but I’m not gonna change your mind and I’m not gonna try to, I’m gonna move on.

and this just, like ok my reasons are "goofy". am i scum bullshitting? am i a townie making a mistake? nah my reasons are just goofy he's not gonna try to change my mind

pedit: dude i am trying i'm braindead again give me a bit

Ok, thanks. I can see that from your perspective. I guess there is a certain aloofness to Italiano's play that gives me pause on a scum read, but if I was in your shoes I'd probably find it more scummy than I do.

The second post you cite does indeed look bad.

This is you encouraging Datisi’s wrong Italiano read.

[Andresvmb]

You have tried to get RLotus to stop TR’ing me repeatedly.

RLotus, do you feel like I've tried to influence your read of Andres in anyway?

And this is ridiculous. RLotus called you out on it early in the game already. Of course you have. So you constantly asking people if they TR me is not a way of trying to get them to re-evaluate without having to say anything?

[VP Baltar]

This is you encouraging Datisi’s wrong Italiano read.

Because I asked him to explain his read. Wut?

[Andresvmb]

Anyway those people can speak for themselves. All I’m saying is - your ISO is littered with defensiveness at being SR, shifty positions when most convenient, and a few hard positions that don’t seem to move regardless of what happens, which strikes me as strategic positioning and not a player that’s actually uninformed.

[VP Baltar]

Anyway those people can speak for themselves.

Can they? You seem pretty eager to jump in.


Still waiting on that midway momentum

[VP Baltar]

few hard positions

What have your hard positions been this game, btw?

[Andresvmb]

few hard positions

What have your hard positions been this game, btw?

I should rephrase. It’s not necessarily that you haven’t had reads that you actually stick to. Because yeah, I’ve had multiple reads I am going back on as I’m trying to evaluate what’s happening. It’s that you’re doing it in reverse. You express a TR (say, for example, Elements). But the minute they started questioning you aggressively, you went back on it and pushed back hard. RLotus has stopped questioning you so aggressively, though early in the game they pushed you hard. And so your read went from Scum to asking them questions and trying to engage them. Italiano SR you, so you discredited them. But once it started to seem somewhat untenable, you threw out a TR, only to leave enough room there to vote when the time came. RTP? They SR you, and you threw a lot at them. Until they softened their stance against you, and they expressed a lot of emotion that also made them seem Town. Then you changed your tune. It all just feels very convenient to me.

[Andresvmb]

This is you encouraging Datisi’s wrong Italiano read.

Because I asked him to explain his read. Wut?

So you saying that the second post they quoted looked bad is only you asking them to express their read, but not reinforcing it?