Newbie 2057: Mars! - End!

[WhemeStar]

[quote="In post 773, six pomegranate seeds"][/quote]

His tone was fake.

[six pomegranate seeds]

A random thought that occurred to me. If Skitter is scum there with Creative - do you think she would have to clout to just straight up divert the vote off of Creative rather than Creative having to fake claim to live? Maybe scum skitter would be so pro she would have taken andante and I for a loop and gotten us to vote into Wheme or Kaz or something there, at least I had said I'm not hammering and Andante literally said she would vote with skitter so I think maybe she could have gotten that done and saved Creative without Creative having to out himself. Just a random thought as I eat dinner.

[six pomegranate seeds]

Maybe skitter and creative could have been spooked by Andante toying with hammering. But skitter even said herself said she didn't think he was getting flipped 583 "oh man ... :/you maybe shouldn't have claimed just yet. i don't think you were imminently gonna flip

and i thought you were softing vt"

Could she have saved Creative without him outting? Maybe leading an ML on d2 would hurt Skitters town cred.

[six pomegranate seeds]

Also another thought, I'm never going to TR someone for calling my reads bad again lol. Just because someone is being obnoxious doesn't make them town and I should stop rewarding that type of play.

[six pomegranate seeds]

His tone was fake.

To me reading the game he was just big time memeing and nothing he did was alignment indicative until his defense from creative was "lol dude there were two votes" and that felt town - can you tell me a specific post where his tone felt fake to you?

[WhemeStar]

His happy upbeat tone seemed fake to me. Did I scumread him for it? Sure. Did I think it was enough for him to get elimed? No. If I was around during that time and wasn't working I would have unvoted.

[WhemeStar]

I don't know why pooky matters in any of this.

[skitter30]

A random thought that occurred to me. If Skitter is scum there with Creative - do you think she would have to clout to just straight up divert the vote off of Creative rather than Creative having to fake claim to live? Maybe scum skitter would be so pro she would have taken andante and I for a loop and gotten us to vote into Wheme or Kaz or something there, at least I had said I'm not hammering and Andante literally said she would vote with skitter so I think maybe she could have gotten that done and saved Creative without Creative having to out himself. Just a random thought as I eat dinner.

i probably woudln't try that hard to divert it off i were scum with him

i definitely wouldn't be trying to divert it off while telling him to incriminate himself

[skitter30]

Maybe skitter and creative could have been spooked by Andante toying with hammering. But skitter even said herself said she didn't think he was getting flipped 583 "oh man ... :/you maybe shouldn't have claimed just yet. i don't think you were imminently gonna flip

and i thought you were softing vt"

Could she have saved Creative without him outting? Maybe leading an ML on d2 would hurt Skitters town cred.

i wasn't spooked by andente toying with hammering, i just didn't think he was the right flip
obviously i was wrong, but 'spooked' was the wrong word

if i were queen of hte scum pt he wouldn't have made that claim
i also wouldn't have vetoe'd it outright if he were deadset on it, it is the newbie queue after all.
would have explained at length why it was a bad idea tho

but if i were scum with him and knew in advance he were going to do that i would have bussed hard beause he always goes down afterwards

[six pomegranate seeds]

I don't know why pooky matters in any of this.

I'm examining your motivations for doing things that you did. That's basically what the game of mafia is lol.

[six pomegranate seeds]

New avatar, anyways the unfortunate thing is that I'm pretty sure that independent of alignment skitter will always seem more town than wheme. Let's just take our time here for now.

[six pomegranate seeds]

At least in terms of how skitter is able to explain herself and rationalize her actions. Wheme is a man of few words.

[WhemeStar]

again if you think ive hard bussed all game and forced pressure on creative at L-1 just as soon as the wagon was about to fall apart then go ahead and think im scum.

[CreativeName]

How would you be able to bus me, I'm town lol. Since samcro died and flipped town I realized scum were doing it to get two miselims on a town and a town who was acting anti town

[CreativeName]

I fell like I could possibly be wrong and it be both skitter and wheme, skitter pocketing me and wheme pocketing samcro to get an easy double miselim, I know I messed up but honestly I'm town, you can eliminate me if town are safe because I don't want town to lose because of my stupid mistake in reading samcro as scum for him making bad plays

[CreativeName]

Why would I take claim tracker to get samcro lynched as scum if it meant that I was going to be lynched next day, I would have just had my sum partner tie it at EoD and then killed someone on my wagon to be able to easy eliminate samcro and get a win. At this point as scum I would have given up and admitted it but I'm not scum so I haven't because I don't want town to lose because I made a stupid mistake that I regretted immediately after I made it because I realized if Sam was town then we(town) would lose. My mind set was that at least one scum was hard defending Sam and I believe he would bescum and that backfired, I'm saying if you think wheme is also scum eliminate him before you attempt to eliminate me I can guarantee I am not mafia though and town will lose at EoD we had 2 miselims and mafia want me to be eliminated for a third to win, I can guarantee after the first vote on me I'll be quickhammered by scum faster than anyone can anticipate to stop it and then it will be GG and WP.

[six pomegranate seeds]

How would you be able to bus me, I'm town lol. Since samcro died and flipped town I realized scum were doing it to get two miselims on a town and a town who was acting anti town

SAMCRO played weird and in a frustrating way, but don't call them anti town. They made a very questionable decision in voting but they sussed people and made arguments. Them afking is frustrating but you know there is more to life than this game. Now that we know they are town we know they played the game in an honest way so I won't stand for you insulting them.

Also Creative, if you are mafia - I very much don't appreciate you telling me that my reads are bad. Because if you are mafia you are basically just lying to me as a town when I am correct and telling me I'm very bad at reads - that is just very rude and not good manners. It's not good manners if you are town either, but at least I can excuse it as frustration. As mafia it's just obnoxious.

[six pomegranate seeds]

Creative if you are a town all I can say is that someone who suspects you isn't necessarily mafia and that people can make bad plays as town it is up to you to read their intent. SAMCRO seemed pretty easily town to me before he afk'd and I was left alone with you guys questioning him. The play you made has made the game unwinnable for town there is no way we cannot vote you after that. If you are town I'll forgive you it's just a game.

[six pomegranate seeds]

again if you think ive hard bussed all game and forced pressure on creative at L-1 just as soon as the wagon was about to fall apart then go ahead and think im scum.

That is what I'm thinking atm I am trying to give you a fair chance because I don't assume that I am correct I am fallible in making reads. Maybe in the post game chat I will be in for a big surprise.

But you aren't really trying to defend yourself that much or scum case skitter. If I was a town being wrongfully accused by the town in ELO I would be pulling out all of my arguments for who I think is the scum.

I have the day off from work so I'll read some more today.

[six pomegranate seeds]

again if you think ive hard bussed all game and forced pressure on creative at L-1 just as soon as the wagon was about to fall apart then go ahead and think im scum.

Also you began to sus creative on d2, on d1 by your own word he was a PR read and you wanted him to live so I don't understand why you are saying you sussed him all game. Kaz and SAMCRO were the ones who suspected Creative on d1. Kaz was the one who voted him to open day 1. You did put pressure on creative at L-1 but the tone of your posts didn't really strike me as someone who was really trying to persuade any of us to hammer.

Skitter's argument that she would not have defended creative if he was about to out himself by fake claiming - what do you make of that Whemestar? Do you believe that?

[six pomegranate seeds]

Idrc about convincing seeds I’m not scum I think I only need to convince you

I really don't understand how this post comes from a town POV still. Wheme is an SE, supposedly thinks that perhaps skitter is mafia and yet somehow his initial reaction to everything is - seeds is for sure going to be the night kill I just have to convince Kaz. This just reads as Wheme giving up trying to convince me he is town and flat out committing to night killing me tbh.

[Kazyan]

Yeah, the narratives that Wheme is trying to tell aren't fitting together. He did pressure Creative on Day 2, but he wasn't all that present, and his arguments were basically "this post is scum" over and over again--performative, but lacking in substance. And even if we somehow had a crystal ball that told us you would be the nightkill regardless of what happens, you're the one leading this entire discussion. I'm pretty sure that you could talk us into eliminating Skitter on Day 4 rather than Wheme even if you were the only one convinced.

[six pomegranate seeds]

Yeah, the narratives that Wheme is trying to tell aren't fitting together. He did pressure Creative on Day 2, but he wasn't all that present, and his arguments were basically "this post is scum" over and over again--performative, but lacking in substance. And even if we somehow had a crystal ball that told us you would be the nightkill regardless of what happens, you're the one leading this entire discussion. I'm pretty sure that you could talk us into eliminating Skitter on Day 4 rather than Wheme even if you were the only one convinced.

Kaz - a question to you: do you feel there is a chance that Creative could be town?

[Kazyan]

Logically? I can't see a way that Creative isn't scum. His explanation of the town!gambit is missing at least one step--I can't follow his reasoning. Town!Creative would have known there was a chance that his gambit would just lose the entire game in one fell swoop, too, and thus not done it.

Emotionally? Well, I've never been right when scumhunting before, so...

[Kazyan]

Like, the degree of certainty that Creative expressed in SAMCRO being scum is not indicative of the uninformed town mindset.