FFVII Mafia: Over

[Cavebear with a toothache]

Hmm. Xtoxm's behaviour has been erratic to say the least (claiming day cop with instant investigation and a guilty on your wagon in a pressured situation really sounds bad) but, since ABR apparently has almost the same role, seems believable to me. The odds of hitting scum on your own wagon like that is probably pretty low, esp. if there are two scum groups and you can only find one, but what are the odds that he's faking a day cop role that targets different baddies than the other day cop but have a similar pm and the same instant investigation? If he just got that out of thin air, I'll be very impressed indeed. As for Bugenhagen being cop, a) I'd pretty much expect him to have some sort of information role (or maybe being an inventor or something), b) it's really no weirder IMO than Cid being one. I'd expect Bugenhagen to be in the game as well.

All that being said:

Vote: armlx

.

ABR: Since this is based on you not faking your claim, I'd very much like to know if you ARE faking your claim after all in some misguided attempt to get Xtoxm lynched. Just saying.

[armlx]

The backwardsness of accepting a counter claim making the first more likely blows my mind.

[Cavebear with a toothache]

The backwardsness of accepting a counter claim making the first more likely blows my mind.

Realizing it did feel a little odd at first, yes. But it makes sense, at least in this case. The stranger the role; if there exists a counter-part that (at least seems to) makes sense; the less likely it is to be fake. Probably not what ABR intended, which is why I urge him to come clean if he's faking.

[armlx]

What specific corresponding details are you citing between the two?

[Cavebear with a toothache]

What specific corresponding details are you citing between the two?

Well... The important part is that they're both (allegedly) instant day cops (not the most common of cop roles) whose targets don't overlap. Furthermore, their respective targets make sense in the FFVII setting. The best thing for ABR to have claimed if he just wanted to make Xtoxm look silly would've been to say that there was some minor detail that differed (or simply that he was a day cop that found anti-town people). I gave him opportunity to do so, and he didn't take it. That their stories seem to match adds credibility to both of them, assuming that ABR wouldn't fake a claim except to get armlx lynched. (Or, I suppose, to NOT get him lynched by someone like me drawing the conclusions I'm drawing, but that wouldn't make sense.)

There's also the possibility that Xtoxm is faking, and then ABR faked for some reason and now is trying to limp along by matching his story to Xtoxm's, but in that case, their stories will crack sooner or later. Anyone more familiar with Xtoxm's and ABR's play style might possibly be justified with disbelieving both their stories (in which case a vote for Xtoxm would be right), but if you believe one of them, I think you should believe the other. I have no reason to disbelieve ABR's claim at this point.

[iLord]

Guys, Xtoxm may not be scum.

Think about it - ABR has claimed an almost identical role to Xtoxm's, except that it finds a different type of player. These two roles are not mutually exclusive and it seems very likely that both roles could be in the game. I'm thinking that Shinra is a scum group, and that Team Jenova is another scum group, and that ABR and Xtoxm are cops for those groups respectively.

However, if ABR were proven to be lying, then I'd go back to thinking Xtoxm is lying. A daycop is more important than a random townie, however, and after some consideration, I'd rather risk lynching Armlx than Xtoxm.

I'm just banking on the fact that ABR isn't lying. If ABR is telling the truth, Xtoxm is almost confirmed in my eyes.

------------------------------------------

I just read the last page - Cavebear hit the nail on the spot.

[armlx]

I still want xtoxm to answer my question.

[Zac]

Unvote: iamusername

Vote: XToxm

[/i]

[forbiddanlight]

Unvote: iamusername

Vote: XToxm[/i]

Argh...

HoS:Zac

Have you ever heard of VOTE EXPLANATION?

[MBPikamon]

Unvote: iamusername

Vote: XToxm

[/i]

. . . . .

You just put XToxm at L-1. I highly suggest an explanation.

Vote: Zac

Doubt it counts for much though.

Side Note

-ABR mentioned something about Cavebear=Mako.

FoS: Albert

[Jebus]

unvote

Vote:Xtoxm

FoS:Those on the Armlx wagon

Seriously, did you read Xtoxm's posts? He is the best lynch by a long shot. We can at least (marginally) verify ABR's counter-claim and gain a better read on Armlx (who is reading incredibly pro-town to me at the moment). I'm a bit concerned about some of the backpedalling that was done, will take another read before the day is out to see if there's anything to be gleaned in that regard.

I did indeed read Xotxm's posts. All of them. And I'm torn now between ABR (I find his jump into that claim a little iffy), Xotxm (obvious), and armlx (Xotxm's claim, which seems an unlikely coincidence, or something).

unvote

for now.

And if Xotxm is at L-1, should I hammer? (and yes, I'm going to wait for an at least decent reason to)

[DynamoXI]

Unvote: iamusername

Vote: XToxm

[/i]

Reasoning? Putting someone at L-1 without a reason is pretty sketchy in my book. Maybe even a one sentence answer, but you don't even give us a general reason why.

FoS: Zac

Guys, Xtoxm may not be scum.

Think about it - ABR has claimed an almost identical role to Xtoxm's, except that it finds a different type of player. These two roles are not mutually exclusive and it seems very likely that both roles could be in the game. I'm thinking that Shinra is a scum group, and that Team Jenova is another scum group, and that ABR and Xtoxm are cops for those groups respectively.

However, if ABR were proven to be lying, then I'd go back to thinking Xtoxm is lying. A daycop is more important than a random townie, however, and after some consideration, I'd rather risk lynching Armlx than Xtoxm.

I'm just banking on the fact that ABR isn't lying. If ABR is telling the truth, Xtoxm is almost confirmed in my eyes.

I reread the thread today to get recaught up and I agree with your post here. Its likely he could be lying, yet its also likely his not. He is at L-1 (i think i suck at counting =[) and said he was going on a V/LA so im going to

Unvote

for now. One so that we can have him come back and answer armlx's question, and so that we don't have someone come in here and quickly lynch him.

[armlx]

The fact he didn't answer it while he was around is telling.

[Zac]

Unvote: iamusername

Vote: XToxm[/i]

Argh...

HoS:Zac

Have you ever heard of VOTE EXPLANATION?

No technical reason for this vote, just general suspicions that XToxm is Scum.

[CallMeLiam]

At this point, I'd have no rela problem with side-stepping the chaotic mess that is Xtoxm\ABR\Armlx and just lynching Zac.

That said, I find the unvoting of Xtox a little odd considering how damn sure people were that he's scum yesterday...

[armlx]

At this point, I'd have no rela problem with side-stepping the chaotic mess that is Xtoxm\ABR\Armlx and just lynching Zac.

FOS iamliam

No. You have a scenario where 1 of 2 people is confirmed lying. Why sidestep that.

That said, I find the unvoting of Xtox a little odd considering how damn sure people were that he's scum yesterday...

This.

[armlx]

Err,

FOS CallMeLiam

. Fixed.

[Zakeri]

Guys, Xtoxm may not be scum.

Think about it - ABR has claimed an almost identical role to Xtoxm's, except that it finds a different type of player. These two roles are not mutually exclusive and it seems very likely that both roles could be in the game. I'm thinking that Shinra is a scum group, and that Team Jenova is another scum group, and that ABR and Xtoxm are cops for those groups respectively.

However, if ABR were proven to be lying, then I'd go back to thinking Xtoxm is lying. A daycop is more important than a random townie, however, and after some consideration, I'd rather risk lynching Armlx than Xtoxm.

I'm just banking on the fact that ABR isn't lying. If ABR is telling the truth, Xtoxm is almost confirmed in my eyes.

------------------------------------------

I just read the last page - Cavebear hit the nail on the spot.

I'd like to remind everyone not to get distracted by ABR's Claims. Will it's true, in the context of ABR and Xtoxm being both daycops that it's possible and they both hunt for different scum groups, this is unrelated to why we were targeting Xtoxm in the first place.

It's the context of his claim. First he Votes iLord, who was targeting him for the Mass Claiming idea. Then He switches to Armlx practically admiting he's doing so because he would be easier to mislynch

Armlx's attack against me is just pathetic.

Unvote Vote Armlx

Atleast iLord sounds kinds genuine about it.

He realizes he can't get a bandwagon going on iLord, so he switches to the other guy attacking him. After digging himself further into the ground, he claims daycop with instant (barring ModDelay) results. He then claims in the same post he investigated the same person who was attacking him, and got a Shinra Result.

When asked why he investigate Armlx, he said it was because of a random number generator result (He specifically says "Dice), which is highly unlikely for a cop to do, even if they had to use their ability for the first phase of the game. It's pretty obvious he lied here, since if he really was a cop, and did investigate Armlx, He would of said that it would be because of the reasons he started attacking Armlx in the first place, not because of a random chance.

And this is ignoring the fact that a cop wouldn't likely ask for a Mass role Claim on day one in the first place unless he might not think the Scum all had alternate identities, which was proven early on that Xtoxm knows better than that.

confirm vote: Xtoxm

[CallMeLiam]

No. You have a scenario where 1 of 2 people is confirmed lying. Why sidestep that.This.

This isn't entirely true. Both could be daycops hunting different scum groups, as they've said they both have different methods of detection. As of this moment twe have no confirmed liars and Zac is just scummily hopping on wagons with no content.

[TonyMontana]

No. You have a scenario where 1 of 2 people is confirmed lying. Why sidestep that.This.

This isn't entirely true. Both could be daycops hunting different scum groups, as they've said they both have different methods of detection. As of this moment twe have no confirmed liars and Zac is just scummily hopping on wagons with no content.

Xtoxm is confirmed liar, because he lied. Claimed twice, remember?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I wasted my investigation on Xtoxm. He is scum. Confirmed.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Note that my role pm doesn't say "you may target a player and I will reply with either a guilty or an innocent" or something to that effect. It is a direct, definite and succinct as can be. Xtoxm is scum, point blank period.

[wolframnhart]

Even if it comes back to bite me in the ass later, i just can't bring myself to believe ABR after seeing him lie about his role as a townie before.

[Albert B. Rampage]

What do you think about this logic, wolf ?

Hmm. Xtoxm's behaviour has been erratic to say the least (claiming day cop with instant investigation and a guilty on your wagon in a pressured situation really sounds bad) but, since ABR apparently has almost the same role, seems believable to me. The odds of hitting scum on your own wagon like that is probably pretty low, esp. if there are two scum groups and you can only find one, but what are the odds that he's faking a day cop role that targets different baddies than the other day cop but have a similar pm and the same instant investigation? If he just got that out of thin air, I'll be very impressed indeed. As for Bugenhagen being cop, a) I'd pretty much expect him to have some sort of information role (or maybe being an inventor or something), b) it's really no weirder IMO than Cid being one. I'd expect Bugenhagen to be in the game as well.

All that being said:

Vote: armlx

.

ABR: Since this is based on you not faking your claim, I'd very much like to know if you ARE faking your claim after all in some misguided attempt to get Xtoxm lynched. Just saying.

How does this affect your views of Xtoxm ?

It doesn't matter who you like or who you believe, what matters is who you think is SCUM. That is also what I want to know.

[MrBuddyLee]

I wasted my investigation on Xtoxm. He is scum. Confirmed.

Well, now the question is.. would ABR suicide as scum to kill the town cop investigating his scumteam?

I have no clue, since he's a wingnut.

But at least we're guaranteed one scum if we lynch Xtoxm today. ABR dies as scum tonight or tomorrow if Xtoxm comes up good guy. There's even a decent chance both are scum.