Newbie 2057: Mars! - End!

[skitter30]

they know it's 2C from the get go.

I realize now this isn't actually true they only knew 2c after T3 days.

It seems like you are reading yourself into SRing me skitter.

i really fucking hope that this isn't where that ends up but as of right now i'm not convinced creative/wheme is the right answer

let me finish reading tho

~
like for the above post: scum-wheme is hardtownreading sam because he shares a scumread on his partner? like that's a weird pov/take, no?

[skitter30]

Well I didn't know that I didn't actually think through that mafia knows the setup until D3. I thought that Creative was just hoping there was no tracker to cc him.

well if he's scum he knows what column they're in. given a jk they know whether or not there's a tracker because they know if they're in A or C (or if they're in B they know if there's a friendly neighbor)

like he either knew he was fake-claiming a role that nobody had, or that he was trying to cc a real tracker. to us it's not clear but he knew which he was going to do

[six pomegranate seeds]

This is good, actually. It means that if we flip Creative and he's scum, then we have two almost-confirmed townies.

bizarre thing to write about a partner

224 is the quote from my synthesis that is the most townie thing from kaz. It's less townie in retrospect now that I realize that mafia was aware there are no more power roles left after T3 dies, but I still think it's backing Kaz into a corner because there's no guarentee the SAM slot or the grif slot will end up TRing him for this post and he will need skitter/wheme MLs back to back to win if the creative vote goes through.

[skitter30]

I assume 1 of 4 things is

T3 Roleblocked the other power role - if this is the case don't claim
Tracker got no incriminating result or neighbour didn't send a message
Friendly neighbour targeted an inactive or the tracker is inactive
We only had the one power

All of these make sense with no claim

Again only claim if you're the tracker with an incriminating result, only claim who is friendly neighbour if it will help decide a lynch candidate/stop a town being lynched. don't claim if roleblocked

what on earth is this if he's scum knowing that he's planning on fake-claiming tracker (which would be what scum-wheme/scum-creative in my mind would necessitate given that sequence of posts i quoted earlier)

[six pomegranate seeds]

~
like for the above post: scum-wheme is hardtownreading sam because he shares a scumread on his partner? like that's a weird pov/take, no?

He's hard townreading Sam to take the opposite side of creative on the argument and also gets easy town credit if SAMCRO flips town from defending him when no one else will imo. I most commonly do this when I'm mafia, I'll pick a town and hard defend them and then some people maybe get sus of them if I die or if they die then I look more town. It was super easy to do it too becaue everyone else in the town as sussing on SAMCRO you/creative/Kaz were all willing to vote. Doesn't scum wheme look pretty bad if he's just like "yeah I agree let's quickhammer this bad boy." As scum I think it'd be fine to defend SAMCRO and scum Creative on d2 especially knowing creative can claim tracker at this point if he gets into danger.

You're absolutely about to SR me skitter there's no other place for you to go with this.

[skitter30]

i'm actually not sure
i'm very conflicted, i'm sorry :/

i havne't reached the point where i have an answer that feels satisyfing yet
i'm not sure that that means you're scum but i'm having a hard time making hte pieces fit together for wheme/creative

maybe this is just my worst game in like years and it's just wheme/creative.
idk i'm still reading let me get up to the claim

i'm skipping commentary on your catch up posts

[six pomegranate seeds]

I assume 1 of 4 things is

T3 Roleblocked the other power role - if this is the case don't claim
Tracker got no incriminating result or neighbour didn't send a message
Friendly neighbour targeted an inactive or the tracker is inactive
We only had the one power

All of these make sense with no claim

Again only claim if you're the tracker with an incriminating result, only claim who is friendly neighbour if it will help decide a lynch candidate/stop a town being lynched. don't claim if roleblocked

what on earth is this if he's scum knowing that he's planning on fake-claiming tracker (which would be what scum-wheme/scum-creative in my mind would necessitate given that sequence of posts i quoted earlier)

I'm not sure why you have to say it's absolutely necessary that Wheme knew Creative would fake claim tracker for those 90s posts to be compatible with a scum wheme/scum Creative pairing. You can read it as just plan distancing.

And the quote you're providing from creative was at a point where creative did not look like he was going to be the vote. Creative says a lot of weird stuff on d2 that implies he's a VT.

If you're really going to say that wheme/creative cannot be paired due to the 90s posts unless the tracker claim was premeditated from d1 then all I'm going to say is that I think that is a false assumption. Even if wheme doesn't bring up later that he was PR reading creative it can be read as light scumming creative, but wheme remains parked on pooky rather than pushing creative with SAMCRO.

[skitter30]

i have never seen scum townread a partner off of a fake-crumb that didn't exist in all of my years of playing mafia

[skitter30]

Ok im here.

Seeds what do you think of creative?
Andante what do you think of creative?

Im much more confident with a Creative vote here than I am a skitter vote.

again bizarre knowing what creative is about to come up with

[skitter30]

I also think a seeds elim is a good option today, it feels like he came in and realised his partner was open wolfing and needed to protect him, plus more people have SRed him than SAMCRO

VOTE: Seeds

fuck this is also bizarre

[six pomegranate seeds]

I actually now saw that Creative and Wheme voted together on Pooky on D1 which made me lose some confidence so I reread this portion of the game.

At post #50 there are two votes on wheme (kaz/pooky) / two votes on pooky (SAMCRO / whemestar)

#55 creative jumps in with his vote that puts 3 votes on pooky (SAMCRO / whemestar / Creative) saying this is a gut read. I wonder if this is just scum making sure that pooky will be the default vote over their partner if no one comes to a conclusion at EOD since they have more votes. Losing your partner on d1 would be impossible to recover from on d1. This could explain creative’s impulse to jump in here with a shit push on pooky.

I'll repost this from before, I do think both creative and wheme light scumming each other but not voting each other is a common example of partner distancing. Wheme's distancing from creative in the 90s posts has a more sophisticated flavor to it in that it provides an excuse not to vote creative on d1 (he's a PR) but then allows wheme to vote creative with internal consistency on d2 - and even allows him to unvote with internal consistency on d2 when creative claims PR. I don't think they needed to have the PR claim 100% planned on d2 unless it became necessary for this form of distancing between mafia partners to be possible.

This is all written form the POV of assuming wheme is scum.

[skitter30]

VOTE: Creative

so, what, he's planned with his partner that he's going to fake-claim tracker and votes him to e1 here? like idk

[six pomegranate seeds]

Ok im here.

Seeds what do you think of creative?
Andante what do you think of creative?

Im much more confident with a Creative vote here than I am a skitter vote.

again bizarre knowing what creative is about to come up with

Why is it bizzare if whemestar knows that creative can claim tracker if he gets into trouble? Wheme can push safely knowing his partner would have a safety valve.

[six pomegranate seeds]

VOTE: Creative

so, what, he's planned with his partner that he's going to fake-claim tracker and votes him to e1 here? like idk

I did the same exact thing as you skitter. I said creative was town and that I wasn't going to vote him. I can say the exact same thing to you that you can say to me. Why would I be defending creative if he is about to out to claim tracker?

[skitter30]

i didn't actually accuse you of that yet but ok
like i saw that, thoguht it, but didn't actually write it anywhere

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

I thought you were HEAVILY softing a power role day 1 which is why I rolled back my townread of you to try and grt scum to not kill you

Now I no longer think you are a power role I think you are scum

Now I no longer think you are a power role I think you are scum

when did you stop thinking he was an pr?

Stsrt of day 2 when he was heavy set up speculating

so why did you say I was not obv town in 97 if you thought I was softing a power?

That contradicts what you just said

nope sorry this dynamc + the seequence of posts from the 90's is just fucky as anything if htey're scum together

i dont' know what the right answer is but i don't think this is it

[six pomegranate seeds]

i didn't actually accuse you of that yet but ok
like i saw that, thoguht it, but didn't actually write it anywhere

With all due honest skitter, I have a functioning brain and I can already tell from the assumptions you have made you are going to SR me unless you change your assumption that 90s clears wheme / creative scumpair if the tracker claim was not premeditated from d1 (which it may or may not have been I don't really know).

You are accusing me of pre emptively accusing myself, with all due honesty I can simply read and I new from the post you assume wheme - creative cannot be scum pair from 90s that you would SR me, there is no other option. I am simply addressing what I know is coming at this point.

[six pomegranate seeds]

Then maybe you are scum then skitter.

Maybe I have misplayed thinking that wheme / creative was the solve and you will attempt to ML me with wheme in final 3. I honestly have no idea how people can think I'm mafia at this point. I have really tried my best as town.

If you are town then this is simply disappointing.

[six pomegranate seeds]

You have just told me that normally scum distance and wheme and creative have done just that - I invite you to reread my synthesis post in 665 where I detail how creative light scums wheme but stays parked on pooky on d1, a classic example of distancing.

You say "i have never seen scum townread a partner off of a fake-crumb that didn't exist in all of my years of playing mafia."

I've never seen it either. It doesn't mean I'm going to ignore other evidence and assume this can't be the pair.

I actually wrote this out prior in my night time writings but didn't post becaue I didn't see it as relevant anymore. I also wrote a piece defending Kaz from andante if andante was still alive too.

To skitter re: why I'm town:

I am town. I think andante identifying as as TvT was a very townie thing from him and I think he is town for reasons outlined above. I am hoping he is correct in this. I hope now that you see that SAMCRO was town why I suspected you so much. I thought that an SE would be able to see what an easy town SAMCRO was because on my initial skim I thought there was no way that scum SAMCRO kills T3 when T3 basically thought SAM was auto town. And the way you just went into SAMCRO looked like you were pushing a horrible miselim on what I thought was the towniest player in the game. My gut instinct always tells me an aggressor is more town than a reactor (SAM shot first in the battle with creative) and that SAM saying I don’t care if you vote me vote creative next was very town. Unfortunately creative then copied the same tactic in SAM’s absence and was able to soap opera while SAM was afk and cause my conviction to waver with time. But I hope you see now that if you are really town how I could have honestly suspected you given you were hard aligning with a mafia voting a town - I just couldn’t tell you were the town in the two of you. I wrote in my initial synthesis of the game that you and creative did not feel like the solve, I just picked the wrong one in the two of you to push because I thought you as an SE would know better and honestly I agreed with some of the things you TR Creative for. I also think that you and I both shared the same in real time reactions to Creative being at E-1, we both thought he was easily town and you even started becoming suspicious of wheme for thinking otherwise. I think the fact we were on the same wavelength in that situation should signal to you that we are both thinking on a townie wavelength. Wheme if he is scum has no way of being able to read the game honestly and so he stood out to both you and andante as feeling weird, because as a town in that situation you felt a lot of doubt - you didn’t feel good about hammering creative you felt scared. I hope you can also appreciate the symmetry that Creative TR you and pushed on me and Wheme TR me and pushed on you (albeit more subtly he said at one point he shared my reads except he had creative as more sus than you).

[six pomegranate seeds]

You even say yourself that the breadcrumb from Creative didn't exist. How do you read Wheme's PR read as genuine when it didn't seem like it was even there. Creative was just saying a lot of weird stuff about PRs, he seemed like a VT to me. I wasnt seeing any PR softs from #94 or any adjacent posts. He seemed like VT to me up until he rr'd and I reread things with rose colored glasses.

I'm not going to just blindly scum read you for pushing me tbh. I'll take some time off it's possible you could push me here as town. My gut from night time analysis is that you're town.

I think one of the biggest reasons I want to believe you were town is that Andante called you and me TvT and they died, and I want to believe that what they saw from us was a genuine good read. Andante made that read with the pure intentions of a town and I want to believe it can be true.

I'll ask Kaz whether Skitter feels town here.

[six pomegranate seeds]

I will say that the symmetry of both Wheme and Skitter beginning to suspect me makes it harder to differentiate between the two of them. Skitter provides more reasoning but at the same time I've had the experience of being mafia in final 3 and then reviewing logs as if I was a villager and then finding a rationale to hard push one of the villagers so that my argument sounded more genuine so I could get the misvote.

It's hard to get much thought process out of wheme so he is hard to read.

Being sussed perhaps dulls my reads and stresses me out. My read before this happened was whemestar scum I'll leave my read at that for now and not get wrapped up in being pushed by skitter and come back later with a cooler head.

[skitter30]

sorry i had to do a thing

~

Then maybe you are scum then skitter.

Maybe I have misplayed thinking that wheme / creative was the solve and you will attempt to ML me with wheme in final 3. I honestly have no idea how people can think I'm mafia at this point. I have really tried my best as town.

If you are town then this is simply disappointing.

i knew this is where we were going :/
it's lylo. i need to think about this critically and look at whether the narrative makes sense. i have a hard time seeing it make sense, and i'm going to say that
i'm not calling you scum inherently (although you're mighty quick to leap to that conclusion, and thus shading me in turn)

i'm saying that i don't think the accepted narrative fully explains the happenings of this game, and i need to do my due diligence

~
if you want me to get into this the whole way, this is a dumb af fight for me to pick rn wherein i coudl just have us all vote creative kill you and go on my merry way with a wheme and kaz lylo.

like
if you really want to force this rn (which i am not inherently trying to do) what on earth am i doing just there
why am i making this more complicated than it has any need to be
you and i both know this is silly of me as scum ...

[skitter30]

seeds i don't wnat to do this rn.
i want to do my thing and try to figure out what the solve is, and once i'm done feel free to come at me

[skitter30]

i'm p sure if this becomes a fight between the two of us we'll get bogged down and forget about creative and i don't want that to happen
i'm not calling you scum here inherently
i'm saying that i'm not finding the solve satisfactory yet

[six pomegranate seeds]

No you're right tbh. I said in the post a little down I was just getting heated from being pushed and that I need to cool off. And I didn't really think it through that making it more complicated is maybe in some sense unnecessary from your scum POV.

I will be honest tho I do make things more complicated than they have to be almost laways as scum just because it does seem townie and is just a good play. But you are right I was pretty committed to whemestar sus, maybe you wouldn't have done this as mafia.

Perhaps I am just being emotional. My read for now probably remains whemestar scum I'll think about it more later.