Mini Normal 2196 - Game Over

[geraintm]

Just vote me, I want to go on mafia hiatus, I am a town PR but was tracked to the dead guy, I really suck at the game, kill me it'll improve my odds of winning.

NAI but don't think like this regardless. What I've seen so far I don't think the visit was a bad choice from a town sense. The kill on the other hand, I'm still working this one out as nothing jumps out at me to why this slot was a target, maybe something from Klick.

@vfb
The reason this pinged me as suspicious was the way you basically kept all options open, yoy thought it not indicative but still didn't like it. I find posts like that things I look out for from scum, because they can use it later to justify going either way.
Does thay make sense why I called it out?

[RLotus]

amelie is so town

Gretchen's votes and pushes always feel unnatural and oppurtunistic to me. I would so want to shoot there if she wasn't a PR, but tbh I probably read her playstyle as scummy.

Dannflor I really want to know why you had so much confidence in DGB being scum if you aren't tracker, that is very fishy to me.

I seriously doubt Dann, DGB, and Gretchen are all town, that Amelie wagon is so bad.

I think you are too sure she is Town and I can't really see much from her posts to indicate that. Imo you are distancing from Town lynch

VOTE: Rlotus

I've given my reasoning as to why her wagon is bad and makes her likely town, not to mention I've been calling her town since yesterday. She's being raw with her reads, unapologetically pushing where she believes is scum, even if it is a push that will get her into trouble. As scum, I presume she would want to position herself more carefully, that is why I think she is town.

Also I'm green checked

[RLotus]

btw I was wrong to say all 4 of our roles couldn't be town

4 is like a standard number for the game of this size and they all seem to be (maybe?) fairly weak investigative roles

they are weird roles to all coexist but if this is all there is it's actually not unlikely

That would make 5 PRs in total. If there are 5 prs, I find it unlikely that we've already forced them all to claim, especially when 3 prs claimed in reaction to a wagon on them (solon, dgb, gretchen). Seems more likely that we've hit a scum that used a fake claim as a defense. Especially when I already read 3 towns outside of the claims, but that's just my prespective.

[Not_Mafia]

VC 2.05

Dannflor (0)-

Amélie (5)-

DrippingGoofball, Gretchen, bugspray, VFP, dannflor

(E-1)

DrippingGoofball (1)-

RLotus

AliceK (1)-

Solon

geraintm (0)-

Gretchen (1)-

Amélie

VFP (0)-

RLotus (1)-

AliceK

clidd (0)-

bugspray (0)-

Solon (0)-

Not Voting (2)-

geraintm, clidd

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to Eliminate.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2021-03-21 19:00:00)

-

Mar 21st 19:00 GMT

[Dannflor]

I'm counting 4

solon, dgb, me, gretchen

who am I missing

[Dannflor]

april doesn't count

[RLotus]

klick/biped

[Dannflor]

oh shoot you're right, sorry I'm not paying very much attention this is a busy week

I'll reread shortly

[RLotus]

also like Rlotus it's really weird you're just lumping me in DGB into the same category when it's probably very unlikely we are ever scum buddies and yet you're doing nothing to decipher which one of us you think is more likely? Despite thinking scum must be among us?

idk it's weird

I actually like Alice's vote

VOTE: rlotus

The main thing I don't like about your claim is that you say DGB is 90% scum (presumably based on mechanics?) and then promptly backed off on her. I also can't figure what role would give you that confidence other than tracker. However, you being PR totally explains Entrapta's tilt on day 1.

DGB I like that they were very skeptical of the PR claims on day 1, but the fact that they simultaneously assumed that you had unluckily tracked them and that you must be scum pr is weird. It makes it seem like they figured you were tracker and knew you were town and as as defense claims psychologist visiting the kill, which is a convenient claim anyway.

at the same time he seems to be thinking things through and I can track some sort of thorough line of thought process through his posts

This is why I assumed you were tracker and I figure DGB assumed the same.

Btw, that defeatism can come from scum too, because if I were the scum that killed biped in the night and it seemed like I got tracked, I would also be very tilted.

Gretchen has just been generally scummy in my view, but her claim looks good and fits with the even night gunsmith.

Solon I am assuming is town, because I figure if they were scum they would be more self aware of how their claim was scummy. Instead, they have this headstrong conviction about it that I think comes from town.

[RLotus]

I'll elaborate why I think the amelie wagons is bad. First and foremost I think it is very likely there is scum inside of {Dann, DGB, gretchen}.

DGB it would totally make sense for them to vote their partner in that position, so DGB + Amelie isn't off the table.

For Dann and gretchen it makes no sense for them to move away from DGB onto their partner Amelie.

VFP is someone who is floating in the below town area and is currently on the wagon. AliceK isn't on the wagon, but made it seem like she would be ok with voting there and is also in the below town range, for me.

[VFP]

@vfb
The reason this pinged me as suspicious was the way you basically kept all options open, yoy thought it not indicative but still didn't like it. I find posts like that things I look out for from scum, because they can use it later to justify going either way.
Does thay make sense why I called it out?

Okay I see what you're saying I think.
I think my wording was poor to what was inside my head. By nothing jumps out at me, I hadn't finished the pages, and something from Klick I meant like a crumb or a decent read. However, when I was talking about the kill it was seperate to DGB visiting and I couldn't make sense to why this was the night kill.

[VFP]

Maybe it's because I'm caught up and in real time now, but I feel like nothing is moving while amelie is at E1. Means scum are just watching hoping for the lim? Possibly, but it feels more like scum don't know who to effectivly push.

For Dann and gretchen it makes no sense for them to move away from DGB onto their partner Amelie.

Lets not give credit where not due yet.
Dann did jump on a small, but existing wagon on you once amelie was at E1. The DGB wagon fizzled off as well. I'm not saying Dann is scum for this, I'm pointing out that it's not a golden path.

I do agree that scum can have the exact emotion that DGB had, but if that's what you want to go on to convince me to vote there you will need more. I'm sticking to town response overall.
What else makes DGB scum (Outside of Dann's claim and the reaction)?
If town, do you think this was a bad night action choice, given DGB scum read Biped slot?

A counter wagon at this point wouldn't be bad though, as a mis lim in the current state doesn't tell us much more than we know now.

UNVOTE: amelie
My vote is purely here in spirit but I don't want a rash choice to end it.

[VFP]

People off the table for me to lim today are Solon, Dann, Lotus and Gretchen. Pretty obvious to why.
DGB, although effectivly a VT now if town, I don't think is a good lim.
clidd I think I like as town so you probably wouldn't want to waste any convincing here

That leaves the below.
Amelie
AliceK
geraintm
bugspray

Amelie scum does have partners, so I feel I can be swayed with a good argument since my voting of amelie was more so testing waters.

[bugspray]

People off the table for me to lim today are Solon, Dann, Lotus and Gretchen. Pretty obvious to why.
DGB, although effectivly a VT now if town, I don't think is a good lim.
clidd I think I like as town so you probably wouldn't want to waste any convincing here

That leaves the below.
Amelie
AliceK
geraintm
bugspray

Amelie scum does have partners, so I feel I can be swayed with a good argument since my voting of amelie was more so testing waters.

is it just bcs ive been inactive lately?

[Dannflor]

UNVOTE:

[VFP]

is it just bcs ive been inactive lately?

Possibly due to your presence since I joined. But nothing stood out for me to town you yet.
But since you're here, what made you change from clidd to Amelie?

[bugspray]

i sr both and there was a wagon on amelie and not clidd

[VFP]

i sr both and there was a wagon on amelie and not clidd

I don't really see much from you on amelie.
There's a difference of suspecting / willing to lim to a scum read.

Whats the scum read cause here?

Think that Clidd and amelie are scum separately or both are the same align?

[VFP]

UNVOTE:

Whats your thoughts?

[geraintm]

ok, i am going back to work out who i want to vote for.
i am still wanting to eliminate someone on the wagon yesterday, because i hated everyone on it when i went through the votes and how they happened.

They were
clidd, RLotus, Dannflor, Gretchen, Featherless Biped, bugspray, Solon

But Solon, Dannflor & Gretchen have both made claims that have not ben countered so i don't think it is worth voting there
Obviously Featherless Biped died too.

that leaves
CLidd
Rlotus
Bugspray

But Rlotus has a green light, leaving Clidd and Bugspray
I cannot believe there isn't scum somewhere on the wagon, so becuase of probability that is where i am focussing.
My comments before on these two were

"Clidd voted in 988, was a blank vote. first voted back in 570. I cannot work out why they ever voted for Hypo"
"bugspray - this just felt like someone wanting a wagon to get over the line, trying hard to to eliminate someone (who turned out to be town)"

Currently, Bugspray is on the Amelie wagon.
Clidd isn't voting
I am going to look at Clidd's recent posts now to see what is up

a bunch of posts talking about Amelie but concluding not
for someone who had like 100 posts day 1, they have had about 15 day 2

Now bugspray
their last post

i sr both and there was a wagon on amelie and not clidd

VOTE: amelie
not checking if this is hammer, just voting

getchen can you join this clidd wagon? if you get my read on amelie then you should at least trust my read on clidd a bit

Those feel like the most interesting posts. pretty much happy with either clidd or amelie.

Overalll, i dislike CLidd more. I never got their vote yesterday, and the change in post count and being off wagon now (to me it has the hallmarks of scum team trying to share around being on and off wagon) feels weird.

VOTE: clidd

[bugspray]

VOTE: clidd alrighty

[VFP]

i am still wanting to eliminate someone on the wagon yesterday, because i hated everyone on it when i went through the votes and how they happened.

So how many people do you think are on the wagon?
If less than all, what difference is there to lim from there rather than outside?
If you lim wrong and get a town, are you just going to focus on the wagon still?

Personally, although I'm not voting Clidd, I like where this is going and it is actually a decent counter wagon.

VOTE: amelie

[geraintm]

i am still wanting to eliminate someone on the wagon yesterday, because i hated everyone on it when i went through the votes and how they happened.

So how many people do you think are on the wagon?
If less than all, what difference is there to lim from there rather than outside?
If you lim wrong and get a town, are you just going to focus on the wagon still?

Personally, although I'm not voting Clidd, I like where this is going and it is actually a decent counter wagon.

VOTE: amelie

i think at least 1 maybe 2. who knows? But i am just going with likelihood/probability and how people got onto the wagon and their reasoning.
tomorrow, there will be new info and we shall all deal with that then. then there will be two wagons though to analyse

[clidd]

I'm open for a wagon on DGB or Amélie, depending on what they both post in the next 24 hours.

[clidd]

My read on Gera has significantly improved.

My townread on Bugspray, however, has weakened, but I still believe that the slot could be town.