TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[AGar]

Yeah no nothing shady about the PR just piling on there. Yeet Hop tomorrow you fucking nards.

[Titus]

Why should we yeet Hopkirk tomorrow?

[AGar]

I'm done explaining shit to someone who isn't actually playing the game.

[Titus]

How am I not playing the game when I am actively engaging you and giving out theories?

[jjh927]

Tbf I think Hopkirk should claim here before we elim agar

[Titus]

UNVOTE: Agar

Why?

[jjh927]

I think there is benefit to Hopkirk claiming here and the risk of scum counterplay is close to 0

[Hopkirk]

don't really see a reason not to now - vanilla cop enabler

[Cephrir]

okay if that's real i know some folks who are going to get a laugh out of it

[Cephrir]

one of them is me

[Cephrir]

Neapolitans are not "Vanilla Cops". Neapolitans can confirm someone to be Town, and precisely a Vanilla Townie.

imagine an announcing vanilla cop lol

as if vanilla cops weren't already useless enough

lmao

[Hopkirk]

did a bit of softing because it's fun

it's not a prodge if i throw in some game content right?

this is a pretty brave view,

but what if there's a cop in the game?

that's a role that's allowed in normals. well

that's it for me

.

first soft

post lld flip i still like everyone from the core of lld pushers tbh(/d) (Mastina/Xtoxm/DGB/Herc despite rep leaving)
so most likely gamestate is that scum were happy to let us park there and either doing not much or pushing alternatives too. probably some scum towards the end of LLD given the early push are town independently

Mastina- gut, but i trust my gut on mastina. i've trusted my gut on Mastina over a cop check (

Vanilla cop

checking mafia goon with 1 goon flipped so not a full cop, but you get the idea)
Xtoxm- maybe i'm biased but the stuff with Auro on their server is locktown
Hercule- early game tonal difference natural beyond what i think can be faked

dunn claiming town was useful

(Titus/Innocentvillager/Agar/The Worst/Oka/Jjh/Ceph/Ythan/A50) i should reread at some point
Ceph is probably better than i was viewing yesterday on an LLD townflip
i like+/liked people in there before but i want to reread all of them
Agar prob still scum

i checked that game because i wanted to get the role name right, then decided to intentionally use 'vanilla cop' instead of the actual role (wet rolecop) so that i could point back to this later

role pm didn't specifically say it was an announcing vanilla cop

[Cephrir]

i don't think i can divine IV's targets from his iso, if someone else wants to give it a shot be my guest

i'm kind of upset that there were 700 announcing roles in this game and not one of them ever visited me q.q

[Cephrir]

next i will have to reread oka even though doing this basically never helps me. it is tradition

[Cephrir]

we have 3 chances to find the 1 scum that's almost certainly in wf/titus/agar/hopkirk so that's not like a bad situation

[Hopkirk]

i was targeted by an announcing role that i think is more likely to be scum aligned (especially assuming town!A50 +provides weak Bayesian evidence for town!A50 on a couple of levels)

i was targeted by an announcing role that i think is more likely to be scum aligned (especially assuming town!A50 +provides weak Bayesian evidence for town!A50 on a couple of levels)

Do you think it's scum aligned because it's another announcing role or do you think it's scum aligned because of the role itself

the role itself

one of the 'couple of levels' that i was really sus of the neapolitan was that i could assume the vanilla cop was town, since i'm an enabler for it, so another investigative didn't make a lot of sense as town fmpov. backed off when the universal backup was suggested as that made a lot more sense than a scum aligned one (either initially or as a backup) or another town one (when i remembered we'd actually had a neapolitan flip because at the very beginning when i said one had targetted me i forgot there'd been one flip and thought neapolitan must be scum because vanilla cop enabler = vanilla cop very likely the town investigative, but i realized a bit afterwards otherwise and started to be a little more unsure, but still sus of the neapolitan). pretty sure this is going to be all of the prs now and a universal backup makes sense with what's flipped/ everything gets some benefit to the universal backup upon dying

Oka isn't scum from claim he's scum from play btw. He hard pushed against Bell yesterday and he's being throwing shade at me the entire game. There's a reason he's been near the bottom of my Poe for a while so don't act like this is only because of a claim

he was scum from his claim lol. otherwise i'd have gone for agar yesterday. was kind of hinting that i knew there was another pr, but tangentially

didn't want to claim yesterday for obvious reasons

worked out IV was probably vanilla cop when they specifically took the chance to bring up vanilla cop. already a solid townread before that though. good thing he did, since otherwise i'd have thrown shade at him for his teammate's dumb comments about my yesterday rather than just the teammate.

pretty sure mastina worked something like this out from setup spec

[Cephrir]

i will roll my eyes all the way into the sun if mastina claims she figured out there was a vanilla cop enabler in the game before today.

[Cephrir]

god i can already hear her typing "a vanilla cop enabler specifically? no. but did i strongly suspect there was something like that? yes."

[AGar]

i will roll my eyes all the way into the sun if mastina claims she figured out there was a vanilla cop enabler in the game before today.

Can y'all just yeet me before that happens?

[Cephrir]

i'm not particularly planning to vote you, but i fully expect to be steamrolled

[mastina]

god i can already hear her typing "a vanilla cop enabler specifically? no. but did i strongly suspect there was something like that? yes."

A vanilla cop enabler specifically? No. But did I strongly suspect there was something like that? Yes.












But for real tho, in actuality, my setup spec was based on a realization: last game had 14 town players and of them, 7 were town PRs, with the scum having compensation in 3/4 of them being reasonably strong scum PRs. To wit,
Town Lazy Jailkeeper
Town Personal Watcher
Town Checker Fruit Vendor
Town Vanilla Cop
Town Combined Motion Detector Mailman
Town Follower
Town Even Night Vigilante

Mafia Tracker
Mafia Multitasking Role Watcher
Mafia Night 1-3 Compulsive Visitor
Mafia Goon

This was last game's setup. Our odd-night vigilante is loosely equivalent to the even-night vigilante. Our tracker is loosely equivalent to the follower. Our announcing babysitter is loosely equivalent to the lazy jailkeeper. We have a vanilla cop just like last game. Which leaves 3 PRs left. Our 3x Neapolitan adds some extra investigative power, like the personal watcher/checker/motion detector did; our Universal Backup adds to the stability of the town's roles being fairly swing-heavy; one final PR can fit, in this case being a negative utility role.

Overall, the strength of the PRs is loosely equivalent. 3x Announcing Neapolitan is stronger than any of the investigatives last game, but gated in shots and in the Announcing modifier providing the scum extra help. Announcing Babysitter is a weaker protective overall, tho, and a universal backup is a good way to help mitigate this. The vanilla cop enabler serves as an extra town PR, to limit the neapolitan's pool of possible innocent results further while not actually boosting the town's strength.

Ironically I thought Hopkirk WAS the vanilla cop because that was exactly the sort of role he'd need to be to not be too strong of a TPR, but being an enabler for it works just as well. His presence as a TPR doesn't overpower the town.

I would expect three scum PRs here, of similar strength. The informed activated bulletproof is a counter to both the vig and the babysitter. The multitasking rolecop/roleblocker gives the scum incredible investigative strength (stronger than what they had last game) AND a further counter to most town roles: the Neapolitan, Vanilla Cop, Tracker, and Babysitter can all be countered by it.

So in those two scum roles in of itself, the scum are at least as strong as last game if not stronger--fitting, for the town roles being loosely as strong, but in some ways stronger.

I thought the game could have as few as 5 TPRs, but in this case with this specific combination I can see it being 7.

But this is largely moot given that I'm pretty sure an AGar elimination (and if necessary, Winter Flakes to follow, but AGar > Winter Flakes imo) just ends the game by flipping the last scum and revealing their role and then we can see the full setup from that and the mods' thought process in designing the game.

[Titus]

Question: Who is the vig? I get if you don't feel comfortable claiming, but one more townfirm would be useful.

[Ythan]

Are you talking about two deaths last night?

[Cephrir]

the vig died night 2 please get with the program.

[Titus]

Are you talking about two deaths last night?

Yes