Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Titus

If this is wrong I figure someone will tell me I have tunnel vision.

I just am having so much trouble. My grain of salt is an ice cube.

[borkjerfkin]

I think SirCakez is better because then we learn if Cakez was a town wagon counter to Mastina or not.

I'm considering this. It's not a bad idea.

[Tammy]

I need to reread Titus here. I only read the parts where you guys interacted and read each other to acquaint myself with what that is like. Titus is not really playing how I've seen her play as scum or town. There's a part of me that thinks she'd have more fire as scum whereas here she almost seems ready to roll over and be eliminated.

[borkjerfkin]

Searching off wagon makes little sense though given the play of most of the mastina wagon.

I'm going through some of what you're saying about VCA here and it mostly makes sense but can you qualify this statement in particular?
I ask because I think it's a potential way to kind of shut down having to fully explore the dichotomies you're trying to propose here and I feel like in order to do that legitimately you'd have to like super hard townread everyone you're considering on the mastina wagon

[Tammy]

Bork - Does Bell's scum read on you bother you?

[MathBlade]

I think SirCakez is better because then we learn if Cakez was a town wagon counter to Mastina or not.

I'm considering this. It's not a bad idea.

I need to reread Titus here. I only read the parts where you guys interacted and read each other to acquaint myself with what that is like. Titus is not really playing how I've seen her play as scum or town. There's a part of me that thinks she'd have more fire as scum whereas here she almost seems ready to roll over and be eliminated.

This is where I need help.

I can see it if Titus is a scum PR/artifact holder with Mastina maybe?
But I can also see this as Titus moonlogic no matter what I say she won’t listen.

But I am kinda like Cakez’s PR is pretty scummy if Prism is town.

And elimming Cakez or at minimum on the wagon is what we should be doing.

[Spiffeh]

Hey Tammy, Prism, Cakez, I know you guys have been engaging me a fair amount this game so that's great but all three of you keep saying if anyone's getting one over on you as scum it's me (Cakez has been more directly suspicious of me) so maybe if we can hash that out and you can mention your specific concerns for me to address that would make you feel better? I don't want to make this a big thing or waste pages on it but I'm townreading all three of you fairly confidently and feel it would be best if you all felt the same about me.

The three of you repeatedly stating your paranoia of me plus the "scum reads" from bork and Dunn are starting to irritate me and I don't want to become demotivated as a result.

My last three completed games on the site were scum games. I was, and am, exhausted of playing scum. Rolling scum in Pooky vs. FL and Tenet at the same time really damaged my enthusiasm to play it and if I were scum here I GUARANTEE I would not have provided one quarter of the content I have provided here. I don't think I've ever been this open and in depth as Town before but I was so excited I got a green PM in THIS playerlist that I wanted to actually hunt scum which is something I haven't been able to do for like a year.

Maybe this is unfair to unload on you guys because I know you're all just playing the game, and maybe it won't even accomplish that much but for the sake of more cohesiveness between myself and my town reads I would appreciate if you'd directly address your concerns rather than stew in paranoia until endgame, assuming we get there and any of us are still alive by then.

[Bell]

Yo, Spiffeh.
The thing. Did you get it?

[borkjerfkin]

Bork - Does Bell's scum read on you bother you?

I mean insofar in that it's wrong? Sure.
Am I offended by it? No.

But Bell's town and I'm not going to use the limited amount of energy I've got to devote to this game to get in a pissing contest with him about why he's wrong.
I also don't think he's the type of person who's going to be convinced by the person he's suspecting as to why. If he wants to engage with me, he can engage with me.
If he wants to read me by my play wrt the rest of the game, well, I'll do that too.

[Spiffeh]

@Bell Yes I thought we were trying to be subtle

I saw your instructions too

[Tammy]

Mine is just a general free floating "what if you're wrong" that sometimes breezes through my ears, and then I think about how Nacho townread you pretty well and he was the one who had more concerns about you in Tenet that I think Tammy you're being silly. If I had anything concrete that bothered me, I'd say so. I'm rereading through end of day to see what Bork's concerns were and I don't share them.

So, I'm sorry for the little voice that creeps up behind me if you are town like I believe you are. I know that's frustrating for sure.

[MathBlade]

Hey Tammy, Prism, Cakez, I know you guys have been engaging me a fair amount this game so that's great but all three of you keep saying if anyone's getting one over on you as scum it's me (Cakez has been more directly suspicious of me) so maybe if we can hash that out and you can mention your specific concerns for me to address that would make you feel better? I don't want to make this a big thing or waste pages on it but I'm townreading all three of you fairly confidently and feel it would be best if you all felt the same about me.

The three of you repeatedly stating your paranoia of me plus the "scum reads" from bork and Dunn are starting to irritate me and I don't want to become demotivated as a result.

My last three completed games on the site were scum games. I was, and am, exhausted of playing scum. Rolling scum in Pooky vs. FL and Tenet at the same time really damaged my enthusiasm to play it and if I were scum here I GUARANTEE I would not have provided one quarter of the content I have provided here. I don't think I've ever been this open and in depth as Town before but I was so excited I got a green PM in THIS playerlist that I wanted to actually hunt scum which is something I haven't been able to do for like a year.

Maybe this is unfair to unload on you guys because I know you're all just playing the game, and maybe it won't even accomplish that much but for the sake of more cohesiveness between myself and my town reads I would appreciate if you'd directly address your concerns rather than stew in paranoia until endgame, assuming we get there and any of us are still alive by then.

Why are you singling out Tammy,Prism, and Cakez’s scumreads of you and not mine?

Don’t get me wrong I feel some of these same sentiments. I was happy to get a green PM and hunt until LLD pushed me for quite possibly the stupidest reason ever and it’s untrue and just ugh.

I just didn’t like your defense of Titus earlier in D2.

I don’t see how you’re not poking me too?

[Prism]

VOTE: Titus

Going to votepark here for now, might be around later tonight but depends on how I feel after I eat.

[Bell]

Thanks.

I've been following along on the Bork/Tammy posts. I'm mostly just waffling back and forth. Tammy take on Titus is like a remix of other people's opinions from day 1. So a reread is certainly appropriate. Not sure if Bork is asking Titus questions as fake hunting or not.

My reads of Dunn and BM are deteriorating rapidly. Titus is hard to read this game for me, but I continue to think that scum are primarily pushing at her.

I would like to point out that LLD and Sangres have a commonality in reads, but I'm sure everyone is aware.

[Spiffeh]

I would like to point out that LLD and Sangres have a commonality in reads, but I'm sure everyone is aware.

I would bet over half the playerlist is not aware. I am though!

[Tammy]

Tammy take on Titus is like a remix of other people's opinions from day 1.

???

I'm remembering my opinions on Titus from day one. I'm not sure what you're on about.

[MathBlade]

I would like to point out that LLD and Sangres have a commonality in reads, but I'm sure everyone is aware.

I would bet over half the playerlist is not aware. I am though!

Why did you ignore my post poking you and go directly to Bell’s?

And what commonality in reads are you referring to?

[Prism]

Hey Tammy, Prism, Cakez, I know you guys have been engaging me a fair amount this game so that's great but all three of you keep saying if anyone's getting one over on you as scum it's me (Cakez has been more directly suspicious of me) so maybe if we can hash that out and you can mention your specific concerns for me to address that would make you feel better? I don't want to make this a big thing or waste pages on it but I'm townreading all three of you fairly confidently and feel it would be best if you all felt the same about me.

The three of you repeatedly stating your paranoia of me plus the "scum reads" from bork and Dunn are starting to irritate me and I don't want to become demotivated as a result.

I think there's a world where you realize you have a good chance to push a scumread on Dunn with depth, capitalizing on the low post sample size. I still think bork is one of the less likely to fool me this table, so pushing there has always been a negative point for me. It's unclear to me how the positioning would look from there/the wagons at the EoD Day 1 as it'd require revisiting. You can give reads with great depth and lucidity, and you can hammer mastina, but is that really outside your range is my concern. bork/Dunn aren't very dangerous slots to push for scumSpiffeh (not that they

are

actually town!)

This is talking purely about where that concern comes from, not trying to be an indictment. FWIW I don't like people saying that the hammer was truly null.

[MathBlade]

I think SirCakez is better because then we learn if Cakez was a town wagon counter to Mastina or not.

I'm considering this. It's not a bad idea.

For the record, I like and hate this.

I like you’re seeing what I do and it’s not bad.

I hate you’re not trying to rally others or sort through it openly.

[Bell]

I need to reread Titus here. I only read the parts where you guys interacted and read each other to acquaint myself with what that is like. Tit

us is not really playing how I've seen her play as scum or town.

There's a part of me that thinks she'd have more fire as scum whereas here she almost seems ready to roll over and be eliminated.

Please substantiate your confidence in Tammy and KTT.
That doesn’t begin and end with it being a good idea to TR the two people who aren’t voting anybody.

Sir Cakez I’ve seen flashes of townieness, but that’s it. He’s also been a source of shade and been attacked in turn. Some of his scum instincts seem to have flipped. For example he would probably as scum push quiet to be the elimination this dp but is instead doing sort of the opposite. Titus’s attack on that, I’m not sure where she’s coming from.

Titus

: no fucking clue. Consider me disordered and discombobulated in regards to her play this game. I agreed with your take that Titus is not playing like scum or town her until you asked and then it got more complicated and muddled.

@Mala, You're pretty right. I don't care.

@Math, Your post asking me to do things isn't in good faith. I just spent hours catching up and your reply is that I'm not "doing things". I asked for your thoughts on Mastina's prism case and I got three posts of nonsense. If you were reading my posts with any eye to listen, you'd know why I am suspecting Cakez at least partially. There was zero follow up to his request for Prism's meta.

I didn't directly say this in my catchup but I feel your townread on Cakez, like your other reads, is largely political. There's no nuance in your reads. I don't really feel like engaging you when doing so will generate 3 posts to my every one and flood out the thread.

Are you okay? Like this doesn’t match town you or scum you.

You’re not getting my reads right in your post (esp Cakez who is a scumread). You did catch up yes but you’re usually more active. Not only that but you on one hand are saying if you knew there was a post limit you wouldn’t have signed up yet are railing on me for posting a lot despite having been under attack all day. You’re incoherent at best.

I am not sure what you’re meaning by nuance but I think stopping tons of TvT fights while trying to keep things together requires nuance and coordination. You literally said “Hey you’re not working with your town reads” about the Dunn vote. It’s like you’re all over the map.

Normally you’re way more driven than this and gung-ho. Your play reminds me of newb scum and that is not you.

Though it should be noted that on math specifically he was pretty much on a constant "titus is scum" Before shifting to Cakez > Titus in terms of kills. After that particular take, I'm not sure why his read of Titus seemed so mobile, sometimes he was lurk warm, other times seemed convinced, bu he has mostly been in that range all game. So maybe not that much variance.

[Bell]

They were both scum reading/pointing the finger at Bork before they got nked. I'm genuinely surprised you hadn't noticed Math. /:
There are obvious issues with that take though. Those kills generally make sense even in a non-scum-bork world. It could have been a 2 birds one stone action or it could be unrelated. There are a bunch of people that have motivation to kill Sangres/LLD/KTT.

[MathBlade]

My range with Titus Bell is I tend to scumread her a bit too much and her being my sister is that I know she is going through shit. So like I scumread her but I don’t trust it unless other do. Like her meta is shifting and she is a wildcard. I don’t know if she’s trying to replicate Titus moonlogic here as scum but town Titus was way better when she was working with Mastina and Nero. It’s like here she can’t be arsed to do the think she does well. You should remember that game Bell she was pretty much town hero. There’s no trying here to work with anyone. It’s off.

[MathBlade]

They were both scum reading/pointing the finger at Bork before they got nked. I'm genuinely surprised you hadn't noticed Math. /:
There are obvious issues with that take though. Those kills generally make sense even in a non-scum-bork world. It could have been a 2 birds one stone action or it could be unrelated. There are a bunch of people that have motivation to kill Sangres/LLD/KTT.

I have a migraine and Sangres’s reads day one kinda had a memory exception.

I kinda think bork’s posting has been pretty good at least on the surface after my initial Ping he’s improved. His latest post I want to see him expand on but my pool of scum PoE has a lot more people scummier than him.

[Tammy]

I need to reread Titus here. I only read the parts where you guys interacted and read each other to acquaint myself with what that is like. Tit

us is not really playing how I've seen her play as scum or town.

There's a part of me that thinks she'd have more fire as scum whereas here she almost seems ready to roll over and be eliminated.

Please substantiate your confidence in Tammy and KTT.
That doesn’t begin and end with it being a good idea to TR the two people who aren’t voting anybody.

Sir Cakez I’ve seen flashes of townieness, but that’s it. He’s also been a source of shade and been attacked in turn. Some of his scum instincts seem to have flipped. For example he would probably as scum push quiet to be the elimination this dp but is instead doing sort of the opposite. Titus’s attack on that, I’m not sure where she’s coming from.

Titus

: no fucking clue. Consider me disordered and discombobulated in regards to her play this game. I agreed with your take that Titus is not playing like scum or town her until you asked and then it got more complicated and muddled.

@Mala, You're pretty right. I don't care.

@Math, Your post asking me to do things isn't in good faith. I just spent hours catching up and your reply is that I'm not "doing things". I asked for your thoughts on Mastina's prism case and I got three posts of nonsense. If you were reading my posts with any eye to listen, you'd know why I am suspecting Cakez at least partially. There was zero follow up to his request for Prism's meta.

I didn't directly say this in my catchup but I feel your townread on Cakez, like your other reads, is largely political. There's no nuance in your reads. I don't really feel like engaging you when doing so will generate 3 posts to my every one and flood out the thread.

Are you okay? Like this doesn’t match town you or scum you.

You’re not getting my reads right in your post (esp Cakez who is a scumread). You did catch up yes but you’re usually more active. Not only that but you on one hand are saying if you knew there was a post limit you wouldn’t have signed up yet are railing on me for posting a lot despite having been under attack all day. You’re incoherent at best.

I am not sure what you’re meaning by nuance but I think stopping tons of TvT fights while trying to keep things together requires nuance and coordination. You literally said “Hey you’re not working with your town reads” about the Dunn vote. It’s like you’re all over the map.

Normally you’re way more driven than this and gung-ho. Your play reminds me of newb scum and that is not you.

Though it should be noted that on math specifically he was pretty much on a constant "titus is scum" Before shifting to Cakez > Titus in terms of kills. After that particular take, I'm not sure why his read of Titus seemed so mobile, sometimes he was lurk warm, other times seemed convinced, bu he has mostly been in that range all game. So maybe not that much variance.

I'm confused? I don't get the point of your original post or here? Is your contention that I copied posts from other people from the first day without somehow remembering day one and need to reread? Do you think I have a great memory of other people's posts but not my own thoughts? Are you trying to claim that I haven't been trying to read Titus? I just don't get it.

I mean I'm not a replacement. I have over a hundred mentions of Titus in my iso. Feel free to see if my summary here is a summary of how I've been trying to make sense of Titus all game.

[Spiffeh]

Instead of grandstanding about it: what was bad about my posts in a way that you're applying scum motivation to?
and I dunno; you basically vote parked me all day yesterday, but you seem to feel that you have to qualify the fact that you want me gone now by virtue of my bad end of day posts and that makes me further question the earnestness of your vote being where it was in the first place yesterday.

I dunno. Fucking talk to me about it. I'm town, and I'm resetting today. I suggest you do the same.

The posts that bothered me are below (surprise, they're all about me!):

I feel like Spiffeh has been vocally talking about wanting to vote DGB today but has patently avoided doing it, even in the face of one of the hardest scumreads I've seen this game (and certainly harder than he should be ostensibly scumreading me at this particular juncture based on what he's posted)
Like in the same post of "Hey I think this is a scumclaim from DGB (which is not contrary to anything he's previously stated; doesn't vote there) but lemme tell you about bork here hint hint"

When I think the town thing to here is to leave me until tomorrow if he really thinks we're both scum

this heavily imples DGB scum

Pushing me today in general is whatever, but we're close to deadline and you're where you are and Spiffeh is where he is at

I realize spiffeh posted his "this is why I'm not on DGB" right now like right above me but that's still how I feel

I already addressed why your interpretation of it was wrong in 3153. To be honest I was like 100% sure you and DGB were scum buddies after 3141 and I was all set to call that out today had DGB flipped scum. Regardless, I think a quick read through my posts Day 2 would tell you that DGB was always my second choice and I had no problem with its lim. I wasn't around as the DGB wagon took off and by the time I returned it was at L-2 or L-1? and felt no need to add my vote in before I was done catching up. I was not avoiding it. You did a decent amount of talking about DGB but only voted it for like 25 minutes and never went back. What is the difference between my not being on her lim wagon and yours?

More importantly, my interpretation of your read on me Day 2 was that you didn't like my push on you but you were still torn. I don't think I was even in the bottom row or players in your reads list. However, in 3141 you seem to be scum reading me to the point that MY actions there "heavily implied DGB scum", which is not only bad because preflip associatives are bad, but is a disconnect from how you were struggling to read me prior. And I understand you were supposedly scum reading DGB but I feel it was a pretty garbage reason to give your blessing for the DGB wagon.

I feel I have engaged you a fair amount this game so I don't really buy the whole "talk to me about it" shtick. I have talked significantly about my issues with you and not much you have provided has changed my mind. I am looking forward to your reset as I desperately want to identify you as Town if you are Town. To start, who are your top three scum reads?