Newbie 2057: Mars! - End!

[six pomegranate seeds]

I'm supposed to rethink my reasons for TRing skitter next but I'm super tired tbh.

I'll take a break.

[six pomegranate seeds]

I think you've tried to focus on appearing towny this game rather than focus on finding scum.

This is a pretty good line tbh. If I'm ever maf maybe I'll pull this out on someone lol. I'll have to think that one over whether skitter really did this. I normally do TR people for saying stuff like "there was one other thing but I forgot" it typically makes them sound more genuine.

I will try to process my reasons for TR skitter.

[CreativeName]

If it is kayzan and skitter then we were doomed from the point that town hammered a townread wagon D1 for no reason

[six pomegranate seeds]

The Skitter Town Case:

Reason 1) Blindly trust Andante read 467 I mean, it is very likely yall were just TvT, I'm saying, we need to look at others, Wheme/Kaz, these 2 have been flying under the radar today, and I'm inclined to believe it's just to avoid attention. Andante flipped town. I like to honor the dead. You know their thoughts were honest. Andante's reads were malleable over the course of the day but rereading their logs this was one thing they felt good about. The skitter TR. They are willing to blindly sheep skitter.

Reason 2) Does skitter kill Andante? Feels like a big gambit on scum skitter's part. Wheme/seeds have scummed skitter, kaz has TR her but expressed willingness to vote her when I hard pushed her. I feel like I am a better night kill for skitter. This I think is a big reason I doubt Skitter scum. Who does she expect to ML if I had wheme as one of my strongest TRs and wheme had Kaz as one of his biggest SRs. If no one changes mind in this set of players, Skitters only option is to reverse TR on kaz and try to get me to vote into Kaz? Not sure scum skitter would kill andante overall.

Reason 3) The creative masons post - 94 “I am not saying me and skitter are masons but it is something to look for in people's later reads” I seriously do not think a scum creative hard aligns with skitter so hard later in game after saying that they are masons together. The only world that makes sense to me is if skitter and creative are preparing a mason cc in case of 3c but honestly that sounds so crackpot in my head. I just don’t think a mafia says they are masons with their partner in a serious game like this.

Reason 4) 85 "@kazyen wasnt particularly worried that you may have thought i was partnered with creative - it was more that if someone votes someone just after someone else said they townreaf them, i'd usually expect some kind of 'i disagree with the townread cuz xyz' and was wondering what you thought of it" Knowing that creative is mafia - this just kind of reads town. If I'm partnered with someone and I TR them I'm not sure I ask a town who disagrees what they think of that. This answer is super, super confident if it comes from a scum skitter "I wasn't actually worried you thought I was partnered with my mafia partner."

Reason 5) The iso debacle 342. If creative is scum with skitter and can chat with her in a private thread wouldn’t he ask the SE before posting an iso that he thinks may be illegal? Maybe he just goes aheads and posts it but I honestly feel like he would ask if its okay because in his post he gives off the impression he thinks he could be breaking the rules and isn’t sure.

Reason 6) The hard alignment: 190 Creative plays buddy buddy with skitter here “Yeah you know when I gave a warning at E-2 and skitter said putting at E-1 it was nice to say that, well *sigh* days over, y'all sleep tight” apparently he and his mason partner are the paragons of the town warning the dumb townies how close we are to hammering. I don’t feel like this post comes from a scum skitter / scum creative pair. Then the two vote together 207 skitter vote samcro 210 creative votes samcro. 406 skitter votes me, 439 skitter votes me. 510 skitter votes samcro. 559 creative votes samcro. I’ll legit lol if creative legit just sheeped his mafia partner.

Reason 7) The flare up: I honestly got hella annoyed when skitter sussed me this game. I feel like I am playing so fucking town that it annoys me when she says I’m scummy. Skitter gets kind of annoyed back at me when I tell her maybe I’m scum. When I look through her messages she doesn’t seem too annoyed but maybe at 871 she sounds a little annoyed with the :/. But her response here “if you want me to get into this the whole way, this is a dumb af fight for me to pick rn wherein i coudl just have us all vote creative kill you and go on my merry way with a wheme and kaz lylo.” actually is a similar defense I used on her as town earlier in the game when I was hella annoyed that Skitter was acting all sanctimonious saying “Sam -> Seeds -> Wheme” wins the game. I said something like “I woulda just hammered creative, killed you and laughed all the way to the bank.” That was an argument I pulled in annoyance as a town, so I kinda buy skitter as annoyed with me here and I do think that leans town in this situation. The fact that skitter thinks I seem townie from the interaction here is perhaps townie, I feel that she’s accurately picking up I’m town.

[six pomegranate seeds]

If I really think skitter is town and wheme is scum - I think that #96 post serves as a distance post from creative on one level - creative takes the opportunity in 99 to distance by calling wheme's logic a "sharp turn", creative even sets wheme up to say the line "I'd rather not talk about it until later" that gets him TR and will set up their fight on d2 when wheme finally brings in the PR read argument, creative distances further in 105 and on d2 will bring up the point why didn't mafia kill wheme the SE who seemed like he was holding back some juicy info if wheme was town? Also I notice at 116 and 118 the point where I TR Kaz for agreeing to the arbitrary 1 active and 1 inactive distribution whemestar distances further from Creative disagreeing “I don’t see why you would ever think that unless you have meta on player.” On another level #96 is setting up the "Creative you'd be my night kill" line later in the game which I see that skitter takes as clearing whemestar from being scum. Maybe the fake claim wasn't actually planned but the purpose of this interaction at #96 was to setup Wheme's WIFOM about the night kill, which clearly was effective on Skitter. Let me actually review the context where wheme drops that line. Wheme actually drops the line in response to Creative at 559 when Creative actually brings up the point that Wheme would be a logical night kill. This goes along with my theory that the 2nd intent of the #96 distance is to setup this line, since it is actually Creative who sets wheme up to say it. And when I say setup I mean that generously - no one was asking Wheme who his night kill would have been at that point and I don't think anyone cared tbh. Its like that meme.

No one:
Whemestar: YOUD BE MY NIGHT KILL CREATIVE!

Also creative at “Samcro hasn't posted since new info/reads came up, it's been a few irl days since he posted so that's not obvious, we'd want that slot's opinions before we decide on the final lynch” Wheme reacts super strongly to this post “this is scum”that seems pretty normal to me on reread. Let’s wait for SAMCRO replacement is something a bunch of other people said and idk as a town in this situation in real time I was feeling really uncertain so something feels off about wheme as pointed out by both skitter in 573 and andante 551 “Wheme feels off right now. "Haven't even thought about Creative flipping town I mean, I can see the 1 scum in Creative/Sam but I could also see them as both town.” Andante is now confirmed town and this interaction felt off to them in real time. Wheme feels super confident in a situation where I know I as town felt super unconfident and town Andante felt very uncertain as well. And a lot of his confidence is based off of 94 being a PR soft because apparently as soon as Creative claims tracker Wheme is convinced Creative is town and he explains this in 562

So my Q: to skitter and even Kaz can way in too. You felt that SAMCRO’s confidence/bravado was fake. What do you feel about Whemestar’s confidence in 537 or 577? Does that feel like real confidence to you. Because according to whemestar one of the principal reasons is 562 because he thinks Creative softed PR in 94. Does 94 even read like a PR soft to you? Does it even feel genuine that wheme made this PR read based on this post? I’ll be honest that post seems like the random ramblings of a VT. What kind of tracker says “hey - maybe I’m a mason LOL.” You even said yourself in a prior post that the breadcrumb wasn’t even there. Does wheme seem genuine in making this PR read or does it seemed planned to you.

To me, maybe you are correct now that I have reviewed further that the tracker claim wasn’t fully planned out before hand. But I think the fight they have on d2 was planned out and at least the line “Creative you’d be my night kill, now that you’re no longer PR you’re scum” was planned out. I think the level of confidence that wheme had in this read was really weird as pointed out by andante - and the reasoning he has for the read feels really weird. PR reading in my opinion is total bullshit, and 94 does not read like a soft to me at all. If some other person wrote 94 then claimed VT I wouldn’t bat an eye - instead it causes wheme with 100% certainty to SR someone and it’s very hard for me to see that as town ngl.

[six pomegranate seeds]

like given the andante kill *now* it looks like we're in 2a and there really is a tracker out there who didn't cc you but like you couldn't have known that yesterday from a town perspective

~

i also think that we shold take this time to try to solve the whole game, vs quickhammering. although creative is always the flip here

~
creative at this point you're probably scum but on the very, very, very minute chance you're town i'll go over why the claim was bad adn why we now have to flip you in post

~
also pom now you can kinda see why quickvoting doesn't necessarily help so much
we really should have let the full claim thing play out, but at least a vt ate the nk

One more thing, the 2a comment feels like townslip - could easily be faked.

Additionally Skitter and I both speak to Creative pendantically, skitter says at one point he didn't have to claim, also wants to explain to creative what he did wrong if he is actually town. I lectured creative end of day 2 about how he really should have just outted with a red he did his job basically getting one mafia on d2 is super good the risk he dies with a red is much greater than the small benefit of hitting the second scum. This leans town to me imo. There was a little fear as a town coming into today that Creative just fucked town over and we were going to lose. Kaz in post 733 also is willing to show a little paranoia that creative is town. The only player who doesn't have any fear is whemestar.

I hope I'm right and all this insane theorizing doesn't look insanely stupid in hindsight lmaooooooo.

Anyway maybe I will try to review my Kaz towncase later to see if there are holes now that I did skitter.

[six pomegranate seeds]

I didn't want tho have to do this but you forced my hand,

I am tracker and I saw SAMCRO visit T3,

I was trying to put it in my reads so mafia wouldn't kill me, that's why I was tunnelling him

Thanks wheme you forced me to claim

One more thing, the line "thanks wheme you forced me to claim" seems partnery to me. Skitter is actually the one who asks if Creative has claimed yet in 564.

In my opinion the great danger in bussing is that you aren't generating your sus organically and so when towns see you trying to bus you can come across as weird. Kazyan's vote barely seems like a bus "I'll vote either of them I don't really care" while wheme is super certain on voting creative off of 94 for sure being a PR soft which to me seems insane and obviously in the moment to skitter and andante when the possible bus was going down wheme seemed whack because his certainty was not justified by the situation because he can't see the room as a townie he can just see the room knowing everyone's alignments and he thinks he looks super town for sussing his partner but instead it looks super weird to the town because his partner is actually looking kinda townie on the chopping block as skitter notes in her early d3 reviews.

[six pomegranate seeds]

Anyway I like my SR on wheme. I'm sorry if I lose us the game town. I'll review Kaz more at some point.

[WhemeStar]

I think I’m voting creative soon.

[WhemeStar]

If you survive and kaz dies than I’ll try to convince you better I guess I don’t know

[skitter30]

heya

wheme can you walk me through where exactly you thought the crumb was, and why?

[WhemeStar]

Inb4 seeds is 200 iq faking a scumread on me so they live through the next day

[WhemeStar]

What crumb?

[skitter30]

i mean whatever pr post you thoguht creative made early game

[WhemeStar]

I’ve did that

[WhemeStar]

We talked about that the ending of the day before I’m confused

[skitter30]

i know but can you jsut remind me since you're here rn

[skitter30]

or not

[skitter30]

I mean it depends on the strength of the read, a small read would definitely be reasonable on anyone by anyone, but a strong one this early is more likely pocketing or some nefarious tactic especially considering I have done nothing too townish yet, however we must remember mason possibility this game and that will also affect people's reads, I am not saying me and skitter are masons but it is something to look for in people's later reads. also cops definitely with experience will include their results in their reads, But as it's only D1 with no headstart there should be no invest results.

this was almost a vt soft imo
meh ok i agree that you probably kill him last night tho

We can agree to disagree
Regardless I think he’s flailing currrently and his logic is making 0 sense

ok not really
why did you view this as a pr soft - like i said here, i thought this was a vt soft.
how did you get pr out of it?

[WhemeStar]

94 was the post

[WhemeStar]

Oh you found it

[skitter30]

Reason 7) The flare up: I honestly got hella annoyed when skitter sussed me this game. I feel like I am playing so fucking town that it annoys me when she says I’m scummy. Skitter gets kind of annoyed back at me when I tell her maybe I’m scum. When I look through her messages she doesn’t seem too annoyed but maybe at 871 she sounds a little annoyed with the :/. But her response here “if you want me to get into this the whole way, this is a dumb af fight for me to pick rn wherein i coudl just have us all vote creative kill you and go on my merry way with a wheme and kaz lylo.” actually is a similar defense I used on her as town earlier in the game when I was hella annoyed that Skitter was acting all sanctimonious saying “Sam -> Seeds -> Wheme” wins the game. I said something like “I woulda just hammered creative, killed you and laughed all the way to the bank.” That was an argument I pulled in annoyance as a town, so I kinda buy skitter as annoyed with me here and I do think that leans town in this situation. The fact that skitter thinks I seem townie from the interaction here is perhaps townie, I feel that she’s accurately picking up I’m town.

again sorry for annoying you
i'm circling back to thinking that you're town fwiw
your analysis is really, really, really good and way over anything you have to do as scum tbh

[skitter30]

i'm now wondering if maybe wheme told creative to make a 'pr soft' that he could then 'pick up on'
maybe that's why 94 seems so weird? idk
i still think that that post reads distincly vt and i'm still not sure how wheme gets pr out of it

[WhemeStar]

also definitely don't rush an elim, which is why I warned that I was putting pooky at E-2, but definitely I want to see as many people as possible voting or putting forward candidates for the vote as it's one of the best ways to read a player

This post pinged me as well

[WhemeStar]

i'm now wondering if maybe wheme told creative to make a 'pr soft' that he could then 'pick up on'
maybe that's why 94 seems so weird? idk
i still think that that post reads distincly vt and i'm still not sure how wheme gets pr out of it

94 came across like he knew stuff about he setup and it pinged me