Mini Normal 2200 | Game Over

LegoLucy · Post Post #3975 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:36 pm

Chara I don't think there's enough collective misreading of my slot for your readslist to do damage, but it makes me all the sads that you don't feel my townie vibez.

I am wondering whether I need to townbucket you based on that one post I empty quoted and being paranoid about getting townread was weird.

But I also get why people say you're underwhelming this game.

Menalque · Post Post #3976 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:36 pm

I think you should be townreading me, chara

Menalque · Post Post #3977 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:37 pm

And the fact that you’re not feels strategic in nature

Luca Blight · Post Post #3978 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:39 pm

In post 3974, skitter30 wrote:i didn't have a read on norwee and i don't think i was willing to push it to a flip at the time

It still feels similar to me so it seems strange how you can’t understand Chara doing that

skitter30 · Post Post #3979 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:39 pm

the 'willingness to flip' aspect is the motivating difference

Menalque · Post Post #3980 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:43 pm

Luca can u pls elaborate further on chara!town

Luca Blight · Post Post #3981 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:44 pm

If you're really unsure of who to lim though, what do you do?

Sheeping someone you're confident is Town doesn't seem a terrible move when you have no better ideas yourself. I've done that before many times - I sheep the conftown (or someone I strongly believe is town) later on in the game if I trust their opinion and don't have a clear SR, for example

Luca Blight · Post Post #3982 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:45 pm

In post 3980, Menalque wrote:Luca can u pls elaborate further on chara!town

It's mostly a gut read but I'll try and explain it as best I can

Luca Blight · Post Post #3983 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:10 pm

In post 1827, Chara wrote:VOTE: Day

I SR this at the time, but in hindsight it was a Townie vote. Day was an unpopular choice at the time and Chara's reasons were fair and made sense

In post 2888, Chara wrote:like i think scum Mena thinks a little more before making the accusation, it looks like he just posted what he was thinking immediately.

i know a part of the case is meta, but nothing else Mena has said has stood out as glaringly manipulative/like he doesn't want to be here to mean. but i'm open to talking about it.

pedit: i usually find the "town player X would be better than this" arguments made just as often about players who are not meeting a standard that isn't actually indicative of their consistent level of play. or, to say it in a way that doesn't sound stupid, it's kind of BoP.
i also wonder if a scum Norwee would not have been so quick to abandon the PoE read on me.

This feels like Chara is genuinely considering things and not just pushing something that would be convenient. It's *possible* Chara could be scum with Norwee? I disagree with Chara about Norwee here but I like the thought-process

In post 2897, Chara wrote:
In post 2889, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I'm still open to listening to arguments on why Day would be scum.
besides that i don't townread them, they've felt off in a way that is alleviated only sometimes when i talk to them/they explain their behaviour. i don't feel like they're sorting as much as playing to be townread, and it just seems very... neat.
i would have expected hypothetical reasonable town Day to consider why i felt them off or scumread them, especially since they have said they're faking their tone/were treating a player like they knew she was town. but it feels in general like they're pretending to understand less about how i'm playing than they do.

if Mena is scum then i would feel a lot better about Day, but i'm not convinced he is.

This is good and reflected my own thoughts quite a bit. The SR on Day feels genuine

In post 3344, Chara wrote:
In post 3330, Farkran wrote:By the way, actually i don't know your townplay at all! I am just making assumptions about it based on how you were townread at the time of undertale and i think it could be compatible with what you're doing here - going with the flow and never taking strong stances - my point is mostly that i think the wagon on day is scumdriven because the reasons provided to hop on the wagon were a bit weak from mena, ali and you too to some extent

Although i can relate on you being more sensible to 2114 since it was directed at you - still, i would expect that the claim should at least give you some pause when in fact it didn't at all?

Pedit: it's true that it has low chance of self-resolving but would you agree that the timing and nature of the claim is unnecessarily risky? He wasn't forced to claim and even if he had to v/la i really don't think scum would be afraid of being hammered without being given a chance to claim *after* the v/la
first bit: i know you don't know it, but you have a good idea of it, i think. i scumread Day obviously so i didn't have a problem with them joining and was happy to see it, though in Ali's case i think e really does just want any flip as town or scum so i find eir hop on very difficult to sort.

middle part: i mean i have considered it, but a roleblocker claim isn't really going to make me reconsider anything, even with the disloyal modifier. i know Pooky has reason to believe it's town, but without knowing the setup it's hard for me to say definitively that it couldn't be a trueclaim or that there isn't some other setup weirdness going on, besides the possibility of gambiting with rolecop. i've been convinced out of scum in normals before because they had an actual role that "made no sense for scum".

last bit: he was at E-2 and was being actively pushed by Luca, with Ali also angling to eliminate something, so i think Day was under pressure. and if it is a trueclaim i don't think the timing matters.

Again, reflecting my own thought-process quite a bit, particularly about being unwilling to immediately trust that Pooky is correct. I feel like scum (being informed) would be less willing to persevere on this matter as they would know it's hopeless

In post 3355, Chara wrote:and when i responded to the 5-minute thing, and then poked Day about it, their response was they weren't concerned about it anymore. all their posts make
sense
, in that they are logical and follow what came before, but they're so convenient.

Day's walkback on the 1800 thing has the explanation of caving in to pressure at the time, but that comes after Luca has started pushing them hard, including the point about how Luca thinks it's scummy that Day reconsidered on 1800 to begin with. so Day then coming in with well, i did think it was towny, but i actually said the opposite because of pressure from others, is just really convenient as well.

Again, I really like the reasoning and Day push in general from Chara. It seems so fair, real and not like they're reaching or anything

Tbc

Luca Blight · Post Post #3984 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:19 pm

In post 3396, Chara wrote:i am vibing with skitter this game much more than i had expected. i don't know what that means.

i do kind of feel like Norwee is not really engaging with the arguments on Day. it'd be nice to hear what it is you like about Farkran's reasoning specifically. and also what you dislike about mine, given you seemed to appreciate where i was coming from at some point.

I like this follow-up on Norwee, it seems like genuine curiosity

In post 3404, Chara wrote:i don't townread Fark, but i also have a vague impression he does genuinely not want to go after me and i think scum Fark wouldn't care about that as much.

pedit: in the case of Day being town, i just wonder if scum Norwee really isn't interested in pursuing Day to an elimination. it doesn't feel like he's angling for towncred on a town Day flip, more that he's uninterested.

This is a fair point that I begrudgingly agree with. Again, Chara/Norwee possibly s/s? But this seems fair.

In post 3411, Chara wrote:
In post 3406, Luca Blight wrote:Yes I agree, which is why it makes more sense as s/s to me but idk anymore

I think I just need a flip at this point and I can't see myself voting anyone else today. I will do that ISO on Farkran though just in case

pedit: I'll think about it
town Day and scum Norwee seems the most unlikely to me and is probably the only one i'd rule out.
SvS is possible, town Norwee and scum Day also seems possible, as does them both being town and i'm just being bad.

If Norwee is Town then Chara is probably Town. I think this stance would be inconvenient for scum!Chara otherwise

In post 3625, Chara wrote:i'm just arguing with myself against every other elimination and i don't really think Mena is scum either.
also come to think of it skitter and others are on v/la but should hopefully be back soon.

pedit: i've thought some stuff from you was town (reaction to Norwee and Luca's votes in particular, also your early game), but Norwee has more moments like that and i'm generally more confident about the read, he's felt very good when i've talked to him in spite of Luca's read, who i townread strongly. generally i've been trying to see him as scum but i think he only is in a specific scenario with Day.

pedit: maybe? a lot of teams make sense, i'm not great with team comps even with actual flips to go off of. but i don't see why skitter would be scum.

This feels real, and again I quite like Chara's stance on Day/Norwee, and feel this progression only comes from Chara if they're scum with Norwee

In post 3927, Chara wrote:
In post 3919, skitter30 wrote:chara did you say who you're willing to vote now? or if you did would you mind requoting?
i could vote one of the players Luca wants to vote because i think they've been playing in a way i like this game + i think they're town. that's Ydrasse Norwee and Ali. i just have reasons to townread all of them.

and i've been thinking i should have compromised on Mena a long time ago because maybe i was just wrong in my initial read. i have very few reads i would say are extremely confident atm.

actually if i had to pick it would be Lucy, i haven't agreed with the townreads on her at all, but i also can't at the moment even remember who Lucy is pushing.

I don't really like how Chara is still considering Menalque as scum here which gives me some pause, but overall it feels as though they are genuinely a bit lost and not sure what to do here

Throwing Lucy out there seems like a Townie thing to do - it's an unpopular opinion that has little hope of materializing, and seems like it would be careless scum play. Chara, based on their style of play, seems as though they would be careful as scum?

Luca Blight · Post Post #3985 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:25 pm

In general Chara feels Town to me and like they're playing a genuine game. I don't see any agenda behind these posts, unless Norwee is scum, in which case it's possible Chara is angling to subtly protect him.

Even if Norwee is scum I'd still lean town as I think everything Chara has said has been fair and reasonable

Luca Blight · Post Post #3986 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:29 pm

In post 3967, Chara wrote:actually Mena should be up in the Ydrasse tier.

Like, I do think Menalque is obvtown here though?

This is the one thing that does seem a little off to me

LegoLucy · Post Post #3987 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:30 pm

Can we kill PP then

Luca Blight · Post Post #3988 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:31 pm

Menalque is obvtown whereas Ydrasse is ????

I don't get how you have them in the same tier

Luca Blight · Post Post #3989 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:33 pm

Especially when you said you townread Menalque even for his votes on me and Norwee, it really makes no sense

Luca Blight · Post Post #3990 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:39 pm

In post 3612, Chara wrote:my next thought is Ydrasse but after seeing that scumgame from her, it's hard to think she is scum who is
this
downtrodden. it'd be one thing if it was in response to pressure on her but she's been like this consistently, and then the defeatist lines about just eliminating her because she doesn't have a handle on the game also don't sound like scumDrasse at all to me.

Can you elaborate more on this

I could see it coming from scum who just can't keep up with the game or fabricate reasons to SR someone

I remember the game when scum!A50 was like '

I can't SR anyone, you should elim me

'.

innocentvillager · Post Post #3991 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:43 pm

Vote count 1.16

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to eliminate. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-03-19 19:26:46).

elimination

1. skitter30 [0]:

2. Farkran [3]:

PookyTheMagicalBear#2435, Menalque#3734, PenguinPower#3824

3. Alisae [0]:

4. PookyTheMagicalBear [0]:

5. Chara [0]:

6. Luca Blight [0]:

7. NorwegianboyEE [2]:

Ydrasse#3384, Luca Blight#3584

8. Menalque [3]:

Farkran#3473, NorwegianboyEE#3474, Alisae#3480

9. LegoLucy [1]:

skitter30#3819

10. PenguinPower [2]:

LegoLucy#3821, Day#3923

11. Ydrasse [0]:

12. Day [1]:

Chara#3627

13. Something_Smart [1]:

Something_Smart#9

no elimination [0]:

Not Voting [0]:

mod notes~ Day V/LA Tuesday
~ Menalque V/LA
~ skitter30 V/LA Wednesday

Spoiler: traditional vc

Spoiler: vote log

Luca Blight · Post Post #3992 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:54 pm

The Menalque wagon looks scummy

I'm open to PP but I need to review Farkran again

Luca Blight · Post Post #3993 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:00 pm

VOTE: PP

This'll do for now

Luca Blight · Post Post #3994 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:15 pm

I really can't make up my mind about Farkran

He feels Townie but I have consistently disagreed with nearly every PoV of his this game

It just doesn't feel like a great D1 lim to me, and not one that I have confidence in

Luca Blight · Post Post #3995 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:17 pm

Townbloc of {Day, Pooky, Luca, Menalque, Lucy}

Let's work something out

ISO · Post Post #3996 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:21 pm

Day · Post Post #3997 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:58 pm

Reads:

PookyTheMagicalBear
Luca Blight
NorwegianboyEE
Ydrasse
LegoLucy
Farkran
Menalque
skitter22
Something_Smart
Chara
Alisae
PenguinPower

Not aligned:

Alisae/Menalque
Pengo/Chara
Fark/Pooky
Fark/skitter
skitter/Menalque
Ydrasse/Chara
Luca/Norwee
Luca/Pooky

Players I haven't explained my reads on for a while:

Ydrasse - Doesn't feel like she's in any of the blocs or conflicts and I think that's towny in this gamestate. She's remaining open about the events and is acting and feels utterly lost, while I think scum would've been very tempted and would have aligned themselves with a side by now. It's hard to explain but I feel like as scum it takes a lot of willpower to not give an opinion and side with 1 faction in the many conflicts this game has had, and instead be so neutral and constantly be reevaluating about it. More likely to just come from town. Switzerland read.

LegoLucy - Her resolve in the skitter22 scumread feels very genuine, and it serves her no purpose whatsoever to pursue in this gamestate.

Day · Post Post #3998 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:15 pm

In post 3472, Alisae wrote:Like just vote me if you want to kill Ydra, if I'm scum that tells you that Ydra could be scum with me because I've been hard defending them as the only townread I'm confident in, but if I'm town it provides just as much information as killing Ydra does which is nothing.

This townread seems unrealistically confident. This wouldn't bother me if it was for one of the higher contributors, but on Ydrasse? The sample size for solving seems low to have this kind of townlock read on her.

In post 3515, Alisae wrote:I also honestly think if you were scum you would probably bus someone since you think bussing is good for some reason but I don't think you have so you're probably town but no one wants to get together to kill something so like
the fuck am I supposed to do? Just be okay with this and no elim? Fuck no.

How can Ali tell whether or not Mena's bussed someone?

In post 3519, Alisae wrote:If I'm plugging in
Norwee = Town
Chara = Town
Fark = Town
Pooky = Town
Day = Town
Mena = Town
Skitter = Town
Lucy = Town
Ydrasse = Town

Then you are forced to come to Luca being scum, PP being scum, and SS being scum.
I think this is a really good start.
Maybe Chara is scum and 1 of these are wrong, that could be VERY possible btw.
But if we're plugging in Norwee, Day, Fark, and Pooky as town, and we're plugging in Mena and Skitter as town, then these conclusions just make fucking sense.

Why is Ali plugging 9 players in as town, and why are none of them Luca?

In post 3544, Alisae wrote:SS being scum is one of the few things that makes sense if you consider that everyone is just pushing town and no one can agree to do anything.
Also hasn't been using his vote at all. He says he never uses his vote but its still triggering as shit and annoying as all hell cuz he should be using his vote but he refuses not to for some reason is what it is ig

I think more disagreement in the gamestate is indicative of scum being pushed and/or active, since there's something worth fighting over. I don't get this stance. Also, Ali knows this is nai for S_S, so why use it as a reason.

3547 to 3551 seem over the top - I think most games have the elim go down to the last two days before they happen, does Ali get frustrated about this every game e plays?

Alisae · Post Post #3999 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:23 pm

In post 3998, Day wrote:How can Ali tell whether or not Mena's bussed someone?

I ISO'd him and I followed his votes