Mini Normal 2200 | Game Over

[skitter30]

Skitter, why were you willing to vote Menalque but not PP?

Because at the time we needed a compromise and that looked like a viable one. Penguin i was p confident was town and i took him.off the table very early

So why weren’t you willing to vote PP when he became a viable compromise?

You seemed more confident in your Menalque Tr than your Pp one, am I right?

I dont know how to explain it better. Penguin i didnf want to vote. I didnt really want to vote mena but would have if i had to to get a lim. Voting penguin just would have felt wrong

Would you have voted PP to avoid a no-lim?

If it eas like literally 10 min to deadline and that was the only flip possible with who was online. Otherwise no

[NorwegianboyEE]

And just to consider both sides, if Farkran is scum then i suspect their teammates could be in Day and any one of S_S/Chara/Ydrasse/Lucy
But i haven't looked strongly into this theoretical world yet. There's probably more anti-associatives out there if i looked more into it.

[Luca Blight]

Skitter, why were you willing to vote Menalque but not PP?

Because at the time we needed a compromise and that looked like a viable one. Penguin i was p confident was town and i took him.off the table very early

So why weren’t you willing to vote PP when he became a viable compromise?

You seemed more confident in your Menalque Tr than your Pp one, am I right?

I dont know how to explain it better. Penguin i didnf want to vote. I didnt really want to vote mena but would have if i had to to get a lim. Voting penguin just would have felt wrong

Would you have voted PP to avoid a no-lim?

If it eas like literally 10 min to deadline and that was the only flip possible with who was online. Otherwise no

How do you reconcile this with your objection to my Norwee vote/encouraging wagon competition?

That’s what I’m having trouble with here

[NorwegianboyEE]

And if it's TvT scum are probably all in the slots not posting just laughing at us.

[skitter30]

How do you reconcile this with your objection to my Norwee vote/encouraging wagon competition?

I dont really see the contradiction? You were trying to start up a new wagon at a very late point in the day close to deadline (this was like a goos 36 hours after i said the mena thing iirc). Norwee wasnt viable, and it would just distract us trying to get to a flip.

[Farkran]

I would have wanted the pocket. It makes dayplay like twelve times easier

And, again, if my plan is to push fark today killing the guy who was adamantly scumreading him just removes one of the easy fark-votes ...

By the way, this is not how it works

1. you don't know what pooky's role was, could have been a soft investigative who would *likely* clear your push since i was his highest sr
2. if you kill a player who scumreads you, chances are that the nka points against you. This is the wifom part, but the point is that you never strengthen your push based on a pooky kill last night. The most you can draw out of that is that fark is still plausible as scum from your pov, you don't doubledown on your read based on this nka.

[Luca Blight]

There was over 24 hours left. You just said you wouldn’t vote PP unless there was 10 mins left and no alternative

I feel like if I were in your position and strongly tr PP I’d at least try to get something going, and if nothing came of it at least I tried and maybe there’d be some info to take from it?

And you could have pushed Farkran instead of vanity voting Lucy

It’s like ‘I don’t agree with the lim and won’t vote him, but he should be limmed’, it seems a weird stance to me

Have to go now for a bit

[skitter30]

Like in my mind it was like: look we finally got some viable eod wagons (albeit on people i dont want to flip), why are we undermining that

~

Fark idk what else to say i literally never kill pooky last night. And i'm not saying the push would be strengthened off of a pooky kill, that's literally my point. Killing him weakens a push against you by removing one of the votes

Also i beliebe i said this at least three times now but i am not doubling down because of nka. The fact that pooky died ia incidental to the reasons i find you scummy. It doesn't strengthen the scumread, and it doesnt weaken it, its nearly irrelevant. This is from town-me's perspective. The fact that pooky died for the most part does not affect how i'm reading you

However, if i were scum who wanted to misflip you, killing one of the main people scumreading you would have been silly.

Idk how else to explain the point, you're like conflating 'scum-me doeant kill pooky because he was scumreading you' with 'town-me thinks the pooky death strengthens thw scum-case' against you when i never really said the latter

[skitter30]

There was over 24 hours left. You just said you wouldn’t vote PP unless there was 10 mins left and no alternative

I feel like if I were in your position and strongly tr PP I’d at least try to get something going, and if nothing came of it at least I tried and maybe there’d be some info to take from it?

And you could have pushed Farkran instead of vanity voting Lucy

It’s like ‘I don’t agree with the lim and won’t vote him, but he should be limmed’, it seems a weird stance to me

Have to go now for a bit

The timeframe you're looking at was when i was at work and didnt really have time to do anything. Like i noticed the norwee thing and could make a quici post against it. Could i sit there and explain who would be a better wagon than penguin (which happened overnight + through my working day)? No, i could not just then. He was hammered before i took my lunch break

[NorwegianboyEE]

@Skitter
Could you go over your main points for why you still are confident on Farkran being scum if we ignore NKA?

[innocentvillager]

Vote count 2.1

with 11 votes in play, it takes 6 to eliminate. Day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-03-30 16:20:40).

elimination

1. skitter22 [2]:

NorwegianboyEE#4305, Farkran#4362

2. Farkran [2]:

Menalque#4368, skitter22#4479

3. Alisae [0]:

5. Chara [0]:

6. Luca Blight [0]:

7. NorwegianboyEE [1]:

Luca Blight#4333

8. Menalque [0]:

9. LegoLucy [0]:

11. Ydrasse [0]:

12. Day [0]:

13. Something_Smart [0]:

no elimination [0]:

Not Voting [6]:

Alisae, Chara, LegoLucy, Ydrasse, Day, Something_Smart

mod notes

~ Chara V/LA Sunday

Spoiler: traditional vc

elimination

Farkran [2]:

Menalque, skitter22

skitter22 [2]:

NorwegianboyEE, Farkran

NorwegianboyEE [1]:

Luca Blight

Not Voting [6]:

Alisae, Chara, LegoLucy, Ydrasse, Day, Something_Smart

Spoiler: vote log

Day 2 vote log

Post 4169: Menalque votes Farkran
Post 4248: Menalque votes NorwegianboyEE
Post 4304: Luca Blight votes NorwegianboyEE

Post 4305: NorwegianboyEE votes skitter30

Post 4317: Luca Blight votes skitter30

Post 4333: Luca Blight votes NorwegianboyEE

Post 4346: skitter30 votes Farkran

Post 4362: Farkran votes skitter30

Post 4368: Menalque votes Farkran

Post 4370: skitter30 votes Farkran
Post 4469: skitter30 votes LegoLucy

Post 4479: skitter30 votes Farkran

bolded

denotes a current vote

[Farkran]

I'm kinda struggling to have s confident read on fark tbh

thanks. if it helps i'm not explicitly scumreading you, ig i just don't find your vibes townie enough to keep you out of the limpool, if that makes sense

you are a very nice player, i thought this while i was frustrated with you in FL vs. Hectic as well, thank you for being nice to have in games.

i try

i'm still feeling a little bit lost about what to do tho

mena i still think you're town fairly strongly but we're kinda close to needing a flip and you're the likeliest to happen tbh

this is dumb and u should do better

i mean what do you want from me at this point ...

I believe this summarizes pretty well how strong your scumread of me was during mid-to-late d1, compared to:

VOTE: skitter

I have a hard time believing you're this naive about your takes while being town

The fuck does it mean that you wouldn't lim the biggest supporter of your highest sr when he's a claimed pr, widely townread except by me and alisae and by killing him you can easily bank on everyone else's lhf-ing me

Also note that in eod you were posturing against pretty much everyone, keeping your options open but not pushing anything strongly.

You were ready to compromise on both mena and pp

and yet you enter the day pushing the surface level lhf and calling the wagon scummy when it took the whole duration of d1 to reach a compromise and i was one of the main antagonizers of that wagon ever since d1 start when suji was still the owner of the slot

Pedit: meh alisae i explained my position on lucy being town like a million times

Could vote alisae as well

nope, i don't believe this is a real read you have, sorry
VOTE: fark for emphasis

don't know what the bolded means
italics: i. was. not. willing. to. compromise. on. penguin.
where on earth this narrative came from is beyond me but i challenge literally anybody to find any semblance of backing to that narrative because i was not

characterizing yourself as lhf is an interesting take, but alright

Note that skitter was already voting me earlier in d2, this is just the emphasis vote.

[Farkran]

this game is hard, i feel like i have reasons to townread nearly everyone, but we need to flip someone.

i am willing to compromise on mena (under noted protest)
i think fark could be scummy
i could probably vote chara or nor or lucy as well

the people i absolutely woudln't vote ever are: pooky, ss, luca, penguin
probably wouldn't vote ydrasse or day or ali as well unless literally forced to because of the deadline

it would be helpful if everyone laid something similar out so that we know what our options are

This is also a post that i overlooked yesterday but it reinforces my feeling that your menalque wk midday was a farce

How is it that menalque suddenly became less towny than pp exactly at the time pp was being runned up

It's like you don't want to be on any wagon that you know will flip town at the moment they are being close to flip, but keeping doors open to hammer anything if you need to

[Day]

I side with skitter on almost every point of that argument and can sense bad faith coming from Farkran... which makes me very sad. Luca is making the best points here from Farkran's side (regarding skitter not trying to push alternatives to Pengo and instead vanity voting Lucy), and he's not even part of the 1v1.

Does it make Farkran scum if I completely disagree with his reasoning and push... maybe. The pocket's so deep that I still want to believe that he's just very, very tunneled for whatever reason and can't see otherwise. He knows 'm giving him no town points for being stubborn.

'll post some hard hitting questions for you when 'm not phoneposting, Farkran. Want to get to the bottom of this.

Oh, for now: Why don't you think

town!skitter

argues she never kills Pooky? It's beneficial for her as either alignment to state that, and she probably hasn't given nightkills much thought as town, so why's it scummy even if it's hyperbolic?

[skitter30]

@Skitter
Could you go over your main points for why you still are confident on Farkran being scum if we ignore NKA?

at this point it's mainly that i think his takes are political (especially r.e. lucy and pooky yesterday), and taht i don't think his read on me is real (namely, in that he needs to twist my words and cherry pick them in order to back up his arguments)

i don't believe he's arguing in good faith here, and i feel like he's looking for reasons to scumread me while deliberately ignoring what i'm saying or taking things out of context
like, for example, saying the first half of a specific post supports his point while ignoring that in the second half of the very same post i deliberately say the opposite of what he's accusing me of (see above)

~
fark i don't think you're arguing in good faith and i don't feel like i need to respond to those. if someone else has concerns please let me know

[Day]

this game is hard, i feel like i have reasons to townread nearly everyone, but we need to flip someone.

i am willing to compromise on mena (under noted protest)
i think fark could be scummy
i could probably vote chara or nor or lucy as well

the people i absolutely woudln't vote ever are: pooky, ss, luca, penguin
probably wouldn't vote ydrasse or day or ali as well unless literally forced to because of the deadline

it would be helpful if everyone laid something similar out so that we know what our options are

This is also a post that i overlooked yesterday but it reinforces my feeling that your menalque wk midday was a farce

How is it that menalque suddenly became less towny than pp exactly at the time pp was being runned up

It's like you don't want to be on any wagon that you know will flip town at the moment they are being close to flip, but keeping doors open to hammer anything if you need to

I think those tiers are being made with surrounding votes and context in mind. As I understand it, Mene would be I'm the "would never vote" category if not for the fact he had 3 votes and interest to be voted by others.

^Is this correct, skitter?

[Farkran]

I side with skitter on almost every point of that argument and can sense bad faith coming from Farkran... which makes me very sad. Luca is making the best points here from Farkran's side (regarding skitter not trying to push alternatives to Pengo and instead vanity voting Lucy), and he's not even part of the 1v1.

Does it make Farkran scum if I completely disagree with his reasoning and push... maybe. The pocket's so deep that I still want to believe that he's just very, very tunneled for whatever reason and can't see otherwise. He knows 'm giving him no town points for being stubborn.

'll post some hard hitting questions for you when 'm not phoneposting, Farkran. Want to get to the bottom of this.

Oh, for now: Why don't you think

town!skitter

argues she never kills Pooky? It's beneficial for her as either alignment to state that, and she probably hasn't given nightkills much thought as town, so why's it scummy even if it's hyperbolic?

I mean it saddens me too to be scumread more when i am town than when i am scum, but i guess it does make sense since i have more enemies than allies (people that know i am an enemy and people that don't know i am an ally)

I am not arguing in bad faith at all. I think skitter is scum. I think her statements and stances are formed with the purpose of limming people without looking bad for it.

As for your question, it is a bit loaded since i think town!skitter would never do that? Like, my problem with her is that she's using hyperbolics to validate a push against a player who was already under attack (i.e. lhf) in contrast with her previous stance that she didn't know what to do with me (i.e. not having a clear read).

Town!skitter has no benefit using hyperbolics instead of trying to understand my pov here, whereas she hadn't shown any attempt to do that ever since yesterday therefore i think it's a terrible push.

But more importantly, this isn't the only (or main) reason i'm pushing her today, i've been casing her at length and there are at least 2 people agreeing that my stances make sense so i don't know why she keeps insisting that they don't (= using hyperbolics) instead of sorting the situation (= what town!her would benefit most from)

[LegoLucy]

I kind of miss skitter being mad at me game's not as fun now.

Skitter! You vanity voted yesterday! Rabba ru ru!!!!!

[Day]

VOTE: Lucy

This is scum

[Alisae]

why is "this" scum

[LegoLucy]

Day feels even more towny as of now

Pedit: the pedit makes it even better

[skitter30]

I think those tiers are being made with surrounding votes and context in mind. As I understand it, Mene would be I'm the "would never vote" category if not for the fact he had 3 votes and interest to be voted by others.

yes, and i don't think penguin had really been run up yet either

[LegoLucy]

It was a 2post pedit for the record

[skitter30]

I kind of miss skitter being mad at me game's not as fun now.

Skitter! You vanity voted yesterday! Rabba ru ru!!!!!

i mean i could switch back to you but it probably wouldn't be a good vote because if i'm being honest i really scumread fark more and my voting you was more that i was annoyed than anything else

[Day]

why is "this" scum

Scum!Alisae only shows up when a player votes another while saying "This is scum"

VOTE: Alisae