Open 808: The Council Has Spoken

[Artemiana]

and yes i could easily see scum struggling with the council mechanic.

I hard disagree. I think scum would have an easier time with the mechanic than town would. Their edge of knowledge would be pretty powerful, and scum have the incentive to pocket and manipulate town so that they can get a seat in the council.

With this in mind, I would be less suspicious of mozzyman and more so with enchant who seems to be appearing pro-town

[Battle Mage]

I don't think you're the most transparent player but, you do have a good gut. I (think) you're more likely to be active as town, and you're a pusher and prodded.

I also think that you have a tendency to scum read more careful/timid players

that's an interesting, and generous, assessment.

do you consider yourself a more careful/timid player?

[Artemiana]

No

But I can be calculating but may or may not appear so

[Battle Mage]

and yes i could easily see scum struggling with the council mechanic.

I hard disagree. I think scum would have an easier time with the mechanic than town would. Their edge of knowledge would be pretty powerful, and scum have the incentive to pocket and manipulate town so that they can get a seat in the council.

With this in mind, I would be less suspicious of mozzyman and more so with enchant who seems to be appearing pro-town

You don't think 'mozzyman' ultimately ended up doing precisely that pocketing, when making a real show of choosing who would be in their council? I think it's harder to play for scum because they get a big advantage if they get on the council, but if they make it too obvious, it can really throw the game because they wont get on the council and they'll get eliminated. So they need to find a good balance. Whereas town can be quite genuine about it - you just pick yourself and your townreads or whatever. So my expectation is, scum may be more tentative at first - not wanting to seem too eager to get on the council; hence I'm suspicious of those who were reluctant to even throw a couple random names down.

[Battle Mage]

No

But I can be calculating but may or may not appear so

I'll probably ask you to show your workings

[Artemiana]

This young goddess in training is not a calculator of facts and figures, but one of emotions and manipulations

That shall ruin any work this young goddess decides to put forth

[Artemiana]

and yes i could easily see scum struggling with the council mechanic.

I hard disagree. I think scum would have an easier time with the mechanic than town would. Their edge of knowledge would be pretty powerful, and scum have the incentive to pocket and manipulate town so that they can get a seat in the council.

With this in mind, I would be less suspicious of mozzyman and more so with enchant who seems to be appearing pro-town

You don't think 'mozzyman' ultimately ended up doing precisely that pocketing, when making a real show of choosing who would be in their council? I think it's harder to play for scum because they get a big advantage if they get on the council, but if they make it too obvious, it can really throw the game because they wont get on the council and they'll get eliminated. So they need to find a good balance. Whereas town can be quite genuine about it - you just pick yourself and your townreads or whatever. So my expectation is, scum may be more tentative at first - not wanting to seem too eager to get on the council; hence I'm suspicious of those who were reluctant to even throw a couple random names down.

Maybe. Mozzy is a very awkward and self-conscious player to begin with.

Mozamis also seems to be the kind of player who thinks things through thoroughly and doesn't like to make mistakes. It would be my expectation that runs into the way he plays scum.

There were all but two names healed, more than likely scum was tagged in the rvs heals so why would scum moz get in the way of at least one of them being chosen?

If town were gonna be reckless with their council choosing why not let them

[Raya36]

why are people voting to heal, surely they cant have any idea of who town is yet?

i just picked what i thought would make a good council. I'm secretly a bit of a T-Bone fan, and I feel like between us we can get a good read on Artemiana.

also I think we have to vote the council before we elim someone, so it probably is slightly a case of getting it done earlier? Otherwise scum/idiot town can hammer a wagon and we get no council.

I just randomly chose out of the people I'm familiar with

[Raya36]

i guess seems a bit hasty dont want to yet

...too hasty to randomly vote for town players, but not too hasty to randomly vote for scum players?

especially when an actual vote could result in ending the day with no council.

VOTE: mozamis

And it's much easier for 5 votes on 1 person vs 5 votes on the same group of 3

[Raya36]

HEAL: Battle Mage, T-Bone, Artemiana

VOTE: yessiree

HEAL: Battle Mage, T-Bone, Artemiana

Three possibilities here:

1- Both a re Scum
2- Both are Town
3- One of them is Scum & 1 is Town

TAKE NOTE OF MY WISDOM. I'm the next guru (no offense intended @Yessiree)

Honestly impressed by this in depth analysis. Good job

[Raya36]

VOTE: T-BONE

Meat is murder

I think -if Scum- he could have easily asked his p (or the mod) in the Scum PT.

Or asked in thread just as easily for the exact reason you're giving town points

[Raya36]

@ Battle Mage - RVS is traditonal. Seems unlikely we are going to have a quick Elim.
Why rush vote a council when we dont have to? I want the council to be solid town.
Often 3 peple do look really town, so we have a fair chance of doing that. Why do you want to rush a council vote?

I don't think it's a complete rush, but we do need to sequence properly - council needs to be selected before we properly run up any elim wagons, to avoid the risk we end up with no council. So it's not quite like a game with a hurt/heal phase and then an elim phase, but they can't run in parallel either.
Having a town council is considerably better than having scum within the council. But even having scum within the council can be informative. What I really want to avoid strategically, is having no council at all. We're a long way off that currently.

Also to add to this, reactions to be healed for council can be read, just as we would read the reactions to a regular vote

[Raya36]

Ok, i take it seriusly now.


As we know, Council get ability to protect and track.

It will become worthless if even one mafia slip.

For obvious reason. We have 9 people and only 2 mafia. So we have pretty decent chances to create "All Town Council" right now. So while you can be suspicious, it's almost impossible to have evidence. So it's better to create council than don't create, even if you disagree with people in it.

How to choose? Well, i suggested myself and BM+T-Bone for reason. I know i'm town, and BM with T-Bone is expireinced players, who can point track and protect at right target. Though, everyone could say that.


If mafia killed, it makes tracks even more powerfull. If somehow one of mafia die,

don't eluminate

before council become impossible (Day 4), because tracks will produce confirmed townies.

We should definitely not pick our council based on who's the most experienced.

[Raya36]

that's great and all, but

you can't possibly

knpw whether he is town or scum yet. Best to unvote.

Think again.

that's a fair point. looks like a scumslip - if Mozamis was town, they would think I could potentially be scum.

VOTE: mozamis

All aboard!

hmmm

[Raya36]

So listen my suggestion.


I'm not really happy with Battle Mage choose. I feel like he could just grab someone from scumteam. So my suggestion.


We choose one person via majority. After that, this person choose someone. And then, this choosen person will choose third one. And this will be our Council. While it's possible for mafia being in, we gain maximum info from this. Of course it somewhat strange on paper and dunno if necessary, but fun as hell so let's do. No, you can't vote for yourself.


I vote mozamis for Council. He expireinced player as well (2011), but somehow not in list of any councils. So i suggesting him.

This is a pretty good idea in theory but I'm worried when it comes down to it I'll not want to choose someone I townread because I suspect they'll choose someone I scumread and don't want on the council. This happened in a game with a mechanic like that a while back

[Enchant]

We should definitely not pick our council based on who's the most experienced.

But you did same, when choose people you know. Right now without evidence, suggesting experienced people is good idea. If they are mafia... Well. Do you think BM is mafia?

This is a pretty good idea in theory but I'm worried when it comes down to it I'll not want to choose someone I townread because I suspect they'll choose someone I scumread and don't want on the council. This happened in a game with a mechanic like that a while back

I don't think we find someone, who get townreaded by everyone. So there's be always someone, who will disagree with choosen three. We must choose and i suggested honest way for this. That's it.

[Raya36]

That was rvs though. I don't seriously want my healed group. So far I do TR BM.

I'd probably be ok with doing it that way just today for info but that method went so wrong and was very annoying in that game

[Enchant]

What happened exactly?

[yessiree]

I'm solidly in the no-rush-in-choosing-council camp, yes-yes.

And if you think-know you're better than me, we will see-see.

[Raya36]

What happened exactly?

I can't remember the exact mechanics but it involved a chain. I'd start the chain for example, then vote someone I think is town to pass the chain to, then they'd continue, and the last person who didn't get the chain gets eliminated. Near the end of the chain it would get rough with wanting to vote your townread but knowing that they'll vote your scumread next.

For example this game if I wanna vote you to be in the council because I think you're town, but I know you're going to next choose my top scumread, I'm no longer going to want to put you in the council and compromise to a lower townread of mine instead. So fine for the first day for info, but I don't think a good idea later on.

[T-Bone]

I'm secretly a bit of a T-Bone fan

that's great and all, but you can't possibly knpw whether he is town or scum yet. Best to unvote.

Battle Mage and I are Masons.

[Enchant]

Though about it for a bit, but can't think about way to fix this hole. Of course, if there's someone who is suspicious as hell, he probably get eluminated and in theory, can't be chosen. Because... Eh. Simple because council of two people is worse than three.

... I don't know. We should ask Mod, what happens if someone from Council get eluminated.

[Raya36]

I would assume no council so we'd have to be mindful of that but good idea to ask.

@mod What happens if we eliminate a member of the chosen council?

[yessiree]

why are people voting to heal, surely they cant have any idea of who town is yet?

i just picked what i thought would make a good council. I'm secretly a bit of a T-Bone fan, and I feel like between us we can get a good read on Artemiana.

also I think we have to vote the council before we elim someone, so it probably is slightly a case of getting it done earlier? Otherwise scum/idiot town can hammer a wagon and we get no council.

do quick elims happen that often?

and having a scum on the council nullifies its utility, so there is no point in rushing it

[yessiree]

I would assume no council so we'd have to be mindful of that but good idea to ask.

@mod What happens if we eliminate a member of the chosen council?

• Every day, players use HEAL: tags to propose a
  Council
  of 3 people. Proposals can be changed freely, but a decision is locked in when the majority of players propose the same combination of 3 people. Should there be no council decided before an elimination is hammered, there will be no council.
  
• Council members are made elimination-proof
  for the day and put into a PT the following night. During the night, they vote in their PT to
  track
  one person and
  protect
  one person. These function as tracker and doctor actions performed by the group.