Newbie 2059 - Scummer's Baking Championship (Baked Over)

[Cabd]

Cheating to get page tops is the mod's prerogative.

Votecount 1-16 (Unchanged from 13)

With 9 players alive, it will take 5 votes to eliminate.

GrandpaMo (1): JacksonVirgo
Andante (3): skitter30, Ahri, PookyTheMagicalBear
Hand of Glory (1): Hand of Glory
JacksonVirgo (2): Andante. WhemeStar
PookyTheMagicalBear (1): GrandpaMo

Not Voting (1): Fizz Raab

The deadline for day one is set at (expired on 2021-03-31 00:59:36)

Mod Note:Replacing Hand of Glory, deadline is indefinite and will be reset to two days upon a replace-in.

[GrandpaMo]

You've had like 12 top scumreads

i disagree. he thought there was a scum was between me and jv. and pushed ahri as another propsoing 2 scum. only read changed when wheme came in and acted scummy which 3 ppl have said which i started then andante said something then jv did.

He was also calling me and pooky scum and within you and jv and also ahri

And i dont think his progressions on any of these has been good

Why do u townread him

Okay so let me explain... these reactions and interaction in my opinion are doubtful to be mafia.

You have to step back and look at the bigger picture and think about on why and how Andante is reacting like the way he is. Does he do this as scum? If he was town, what would his town reaction be? Is there any bias? And etc. Questions that can help guide alignment issues toward the general overview.

Conceptual Context

As seen in my analysis of Pooky, it was so certain to Pooky that Andante was towny. And now just these interactions make it seem that Andante could flip town. Andante pushes Ahri for the lack of contribution, you come out and defend. Then HoG does some weird shit in the back. Both you and Ahri go hard at it against Andante. JV joins some time later. Pooky happens to sheep your vote. Wheme comes and finds a 'scummy' thing of Andante.

These events led it to the synopsis of how two the mafia or atleast 1 (and the other is focused on someone else) is definitely on the push of Andante. This aggression comes out of no where as soon as Andante starts getting annoyed. By game mechanics, there is less than 25% chance this could be a bus and this is based on a personal probability chance of how there is more likely to flip town with more members of this village pushing them.

They flip town. What happens next? There is 3 different theories you could play out if and only if they flip town. 1) Whole rest of the second day focused on night kill and day 1 information; game doesn't move that much 2) Game moves but only to a certain point if there is new info with night kill or any PR info is outted. 3) Game moves on completely focusing on the future in more hypotheticals. Number 2 is the most probable to happen as PRs are most likely to be gotten new info and night kill will tell us info on who might or might not have done that.


They flip scum. What happens next? There is 4 different theories you could play out if and only if they flip scum. 1) Scumread me because I was the hardest defender. 2) Scumread HoG because of their lack of contribution and attention to Andante (inactive) 3) Scumread Pooky for defending them until an influence of vote happened. 4) Theorize an 'elaborate' bus could have happened. From your perspective 1 and 4 seem the most probable. 3 coincides with 4 as we got pooky voting Andante now.

Now you answer me, playing that scenario if the flip scum, who is their Mafia partner? That will be hard to tell. I know I am town and honestly I wouldn't know as I would instantly jump into that conclusion of theory 2 and 4. I doubt game will progress. I guess it will be an "info vote" but there are far better votes than someone who has contributed and tried answering questions while some haven't and deflected on others. Lack of contribution from Ahri, Pooky, HoG, and Wheme. The only reason I am really not keen on voting JV is because the level of contribution. Me, Skitter, and JV all have been contributing and right now being it day one, I like to find that in a more later state of mind where we solved scum between the more people who haven't said anything. Even if they are town, they are lacking actual town members like us any town.

Personal Context

From my experience, Andante have done some things that would be considered a towny reaction. For example, in post 586, where Andante asks about other town members specifically Ahri when they know they have pressure on them, is usually what town considers to follow. "I am town so please can you read them" I would understand the pressure Andante has because everyone has been on them instead of Ahri who has contributed less than them and got away with it. Now that could be debated as either very scummy and very towny. They already implied they are most likely VT due to the nature of dying. Again, I have seen many VTs willing to die and giving legacy because they are being scumpushed, I am guilty of it that is why I feel this and tad biased. Mafia is more inclined to just claim PR. I don't see why Andante just claims VT as town. They will claim PR, get PR to maybe out or sway a vote onto someone else. Doesn't make sense for mafia to give out legacy reads and claim VT.

Extra comments

Response to Ahri:

First) HoG is being prodded at the moment. No one gave them any attention besides these last few hours because of no contribution and is being prodded for it. HoG never explained their read on Andante and never really focused anyone in the interaction but the outside voters. HoG townreads me I believe and someone else and may have scumread someone.

Second) The response to the "If he thinks there is one scum between me / JV then why is he pushing me" is a lame and wack reason to push honestly. You come in the end of the day contradicting your own statement. Andante flips scum > its Gpa / HoG and we win. That implies you think scum is between Gpa and Hog but you aren't pushing any of us instead you are pushing the same person who wanted to push you; omgus.

If Andante says there is scum between me and JV and wants you out that implies he thinks you are scum + with someone else in that pair. Do you not understand that? Since I now know that there is 2 mafia in the game, he is basically giving the logical argument that there is 1 scum in this pair and the other scum is x. In this case, you. It isn't hard that understand. For me to townread you, I needed a way better logic to push Andante.

Quick Response to Skitter:

Just to let you know, I would have done the same time. And I will gladly admit that either this person is PR/Scum. I do that as town and mafia and find that more of NAI because why would mafia need to believe their claim? If you are mafia and you know that this person could be PR (and they actually are) and Andante says this other person might be PR (in which they are VT)... Mafia gets conflicted in the psychology of the mind and decides to trust Andante's PR read and boom they flip VT. For example, if Andante says Pooky is PR/Scum (let us say they are actually confirmed scum) then Mafia knows that Pooky isn't PR and will be scumread by Andante if they didn't out as PR etc. It gives benefit to town as a sign of confusion imo. No reason for mafia to just out information like that. It doesn't do anything and in fact helps town in some cases.

[JacksonVirgo]

Alright I have skimmed on mobile and have come to the conclusion that I think Andante and Grandpa are both scum together. Gramps refusing to vote there as they said andante was getting bussed. Its a tinfoil so not going further without a flip but I am posting this to ser if I nailed both scum D1 in a newbie game again.

[JacksonVirgo]

Will post thoughts when on my computer

[GrandpaMo]

Alright I have skimmed on mobile and have come to the conclusion that I think Andante and Grandpa are both scum together. Gramps refusing to vote there as they said andante was getting bussed. Its a tinfoil so not going further without a flip but I am posting this to ser if I nailed both scum D1 in a newbie game again.

Yea I know I am being paired with Andante here. And I really don't care because I know I am town. I defended my town read, I can do the same for all my reads unlike some of you all. I am pretty sure Andante flips town and I am NOT afraid to say this.

I have stated multiple times JV that I doubt it is a bus... I always like to bring hypotheticals. It isn't a bus because Andante flips town lmfao.

[GrandpaMo]

Alright I have skimmed on mobile and have come to the conclusion that I think Andante and Grandpa are both scum together. Gramps refusing to vote there as they said andante was getting bussed. Its a tinfoil so not going further without a flip but I am posting this to ser if I nailed both scum D1 in a newbie game again.

Wait I just read the actual content of what you said. You think I am scum because I am refusing to vote Andante? What? That is some wack BS LOL. I thought you were more of you think I am scum because I seem paired by defending. I think if you stayed on that logic that would have been better. I am not voting andante because they are my townread. I am voting my scumread. You or Pooky.

[WhemeStar]

Cabd cheated and ruined my dedication Of getting pagetops :/

[WhemeStar]

I really like grandpamo's analysis above

Ig now we wait for a replacement?
Wheme how do u feel abt andante

I think they’re playing different from last game but I’m voting with them so

[JacksonVirgo]

Wait I just read the actual content of what you said. You think I am scum because I am refusing to vote Andante? What? That is some wack BS LOL. I thought you were more of you think I am scum because I seem paired by defending. I think if you stayed on that logic that would have been better. I am not voting andante because they are my townread. I am voting my scumread. You or Pooky.

No that's not what I said.

I think you're scum for reasons I've been saying all D1. I think that if one of you do both flip scum and I am right that would be some legendary reading on my behalf. Hol' on let me get that game I am referring to

[JacksonVirgo]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=82380
That game was the most amazing town game I've ever had, in a newbie game anyway.

[JacksonVirgo]

Hmm, reading back I see how you thought I meant that. But in reality I was just hyped that I really want that to be the case and that it does make sense logically for you to be paired.

[JacksonVirgo]

I obviously want Grandpa eliminated but that's likely not happening so I'm gonna vote Andante. This is now E-1 and we now need a claim. That and don't want Andante around with their constant PR fishing, which is gonna break us.

VOTE: Andante

[JacksonVirgo]

Also dudes!!!

Mini and myself finally got accepted for a house today and I am so hyped ahaha

[GrandpaMo]

Wait I just read the actual content of what you said. You think I am scum because I am refusing to vote Andante? What? That is some wack BS LOL. I thought you were more of you think I am scum because I seem paired by defending. I think if you stayed on that logic that would have been better. I am not voting andante because they are my townread. I am voting my scumread. You or Pooky.

No that's not what I said.

I think you're scum for reasons I've been saying all D1. I think that if one of you do both flip scum and I am right that would be some legendary reading on my behalf. Hol' on let me get that game I am referring to

Well sorry to tell you this bud. You're wrong! You're outted confirmed scum for this!

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

[JacksonVirgo]

Whatever you say

[JacksonVirgo]

@skitter or @anyone, if you're willing to wagon Grandpa let me know but aorn I see not many people willing and it's so close to EoD

[GrandpaMo]

Whatever you say

lol honestly i expected a way aggresive reaction. but i actually liked this rxn. obviously my thing was sarcastic but ig my vote is going to stay since no one is going to vote pooky smh. not even their own mafia partner like u can bus.

[GrandpaMo]

@skitter or @anyone, if you're willing to wagon Grandpa let me know but aorn I see not many people willing and it's so close to EoD

thats a scummy thing to say... what >-<

[GrandpaMo]

@cabd vote count ?

[JacksonVirgo]

Actually, Grandpa give these games a read.

Town Games
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=84671
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84723

Scum Games
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=85295
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=85067

And if you actually read them you can probably see how hard it is for me to fake my own town-meta and you can gauge from that as well. If you *are* town here tunneling me that should help a tad. And if you're scum it shouldn't matter as you're set on wanting me dead as I'm a threat to you.

[JacksonVirgo]

lol honestly i expected a way aggresive reaction. but i actually liked this rxn. obviously my thing was sarcastic but ig my vote is going to stay since no one is going to vote pooky smh. not even their own mafia partner like u can bus.

I'm done pushing you right now as it's only making me heated and it's going to make me make a bad decision. I would like to keep a level head, I also gave you some reading material I want you to try and read if you can. This is both to try and (if you're town) to see if you're tunneling for reasons that are town!ai for me. Also I am going to gauge your response to see if I am tunneling town here.

[JacksonVirgo]

As it stands right now, I feel you're desperately pushing me as it's your only shot as you tried pushing elsewhere and being all nice to me but it didn't flip my read on you and thus you need to go on the attack once again.

[JacksonVirgo]

If you need more games, check my sig

[Cabd]

Votecount 1-17

With 9 players alive, it will take 5 votes to eliminate.

Andante (4): skitter30, Ahri, PookyTheMagicalBear, JacksonVirgo
JacksonVirgo (3): Andante. WhemeStar, GrandpaMo
Hand of Glory (1): Hand of Glory

Not Voting (1): Fizz Raab

The deadline for day one is set at (expired on 2021-03-31 00:59:36)

Mod Note:Replacing Hand of Glory, deadline is locked and will be reset to two days.

Ya'll can have a little page top chance, as a treat.

[JacksonVirgo]

F