Mini Normal 2196 - Game Over

[clidd]

Hum. I have nothing new to add.

I still think Amélie is a deepwolf after a reread and I intend to keep my vote there.

[clidd]

For example,

here:

Spoiler:

A couple posts caught my attention in RVS which is a couple more than normal so I decided I'd include a section for RVS.

14 days gives us plenty of time I don’t think I’ve ever played a game where the first day has been 14 days long

I don't see why you choose to mention this. I did not notice this personally but I don't think it's anything too worthy of noting.

14 days gives us plenty of time I don’t think I’ve ever played a game where the first day has been 14 days long

That's a lot of time indeed. Let's hope we will manage to eliminate Mafia.
VOTE: bugspray

Out of all the votes on bugspray, this is my least favorite because it feels overly self conscious.

heeeeey lmao VOTE: AliceK. why do you think mini pointed out the deadline being long Alice?

I like this vote.

what are your thoughts on 15

I saw this post caught people's attention but it's actually one of the most towny things I've seen bugspray do so I think bugspray is probably town.

To be clear that replace was 100% nai and had nothing to do with this game, pretty sure

Heeyyy clidd !

I don't understand why you chose to say this. I'd ask what you are referencing but if it is against game rules, don't answer.

By the way, I hope you guys have noticed my predecessor's evidently town frustration.

I wouldn't mind getting some town points.

I think clidd is scummier then everyone else that I previously had problems with. This doesn't feel like something he would say.

mini you're so towny lmao. can you get a better pfp bc your current one is pretty maf which doesn't fit. it sounds like clidd repped in thinking art was town so uh, i'm gonna sheep his uninformed read before he repped in and figure he's town. easy.

I take back my townread on this slot for the vote. This conclusion is very strange. Artemia had three posts and I can't even remember what she said in either of the three. Clidd/Gretchen makes a lot of sense given that.

loves your eyes. so easy to lose myself in them...

Posts like this make me think Gretchen is even more scummy

Amelie's gonna come in here like "wtf is this shit that I signed up for"

Who are you? I am not happy with the amount of useless posts I see in this game.

Town: bugspray
Null: Entrapta, Minimegabyte
Scum: Clidd, Gretchen, AliceK

Scumgame:

Spoiler:

Vote count 1.01

with 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-01-03 15:00:00).

execution

Not_Mafia [2]:

Not_Mafia, Raya36

RedFlavor [1]:

DkKoba

Not Voting [6]:

clidd, Horsewoman, Ahsoka, volxen, RedFlavor, Radja

game state

Doom Counter

is currently at

zero

.
~ With

3

Mafia alive, the Town will be endgamed once they are brought down to

3

members.

Previously published lists:
~ none

mod notes

~ everyone has confirmed!

WAIT THERES 3 MAFIA???

#townslip gang

Hol up so mafia cant kill?

This felt really fake and I am concerned with other people's reactions to it because none of them looked even slightly surprised.

raya if u pocket me rn i promise not to push u today

Consider yourself pocketed

This interaction also feels fake. I'm considering scum theatre as a possibility here.

Ok I bleieve your townslip

I hate this but it does feel more like a confused townie than scum theatre.

who you choose to be friends with says a lot abt u.

motivation for this game coincidentally just dropped 90%.

lowkey can i just policy ur slot lmfao

I'm not sure entirely what this is about but I find this particularly rude.

Maybe other people just read the set-ups they're playing

Interesting. I agree with Not Mafia here. In my last game with him, I couldn't remember a single thing he said that I agreed with.

Hullo! Hope you're all having a great christmas.

It turns out that DKkoba's theory was wrong and redflavor's opened came from town. I liked the theory, I think it's towny that dk thought this long and hard about it, and part of me was just curious enough to know so I decided to replace in when the chance appeared.

This feels show-y. I took a brief glance at the game before I replaced in and was also curious what alignment Radja was but I wasn't planning to say it. This can go in my null for now.

I had a hard scumread on DK in our first game together, but after a while I learned that he plays

like that

in both alignments. Nothing he said in this game, so far, is ai in my opinion.

Please pay attention to pronouns.
What do you mean by "they play like that in both alignments"?
Specifically, what is "that"

Many of Gimli's reads in relation to DK seem like things that I could manufacture as scum to push someone, but I still believe that there is a scenario where he is not used to DK and, by default, interpreted his entire line of action as too weird to be town. I'm waiting to see which way my impression on him will go.

I agree with Gimli on Dkkoba.

last post of the day is a retraction of that ahsoka townlean after much consideration.

in fact I think her entrances in the thread are very bad with the flow of everything and point to scum.

will develop on this read tomorrow.

VOTE: ahsoka

I dislike the timing of this. It is right after clidd says Ashoka isn't obvtowning.

Reads look like this right now:

Town: Redflavor, Not Mafia
Null: Clidd, Gimli
Scum: Dkkoba, Raya36

Gimli and Ashoka's avatars are very similar and I apologize in advance if I start mixing them up.

DK is the type of person who is easily misunderstood if you don't like their post flow, and is a very sensitive slot in terms of what can be considered AI or not. I would say that none of their posts so far have given me the impression of "this is town!DK" or "this is scum!DK", which is why I am warning you (assuming you are town, of course ) to keep an open mind towards them.

What is ai for them then?

gimli basically is approaching my slot in the worst faith possible, and anyone who is skeptical of me = towny.

thats how u can sum up their reading process.

this isnt how town approaches reads.
this is how scum discredits.


as soon as clidd pointed out that this is NAI for me > pivoted off.

this implies clidd is not aligned with gimli(like 50% sure, but gun to head would bet on not teammates rn)

clidd, as someone who plays at tables with myself in every game I play, I know that that is exactly what scum does in relation to my slot very often when they do not know me. Those that know me will more often attempt to pocket me as that's my weakness, or something in between if they're especially smart(pooky from coalition a few months ago comes to mind).

im a bit of a self aware player. I know what's scummy. I know whats towny. I know whats NAI. If you think you have caught me being scummy it better be because my reads are horseshit, not some NAI garbage like a townslip. Can I fake them? Yeah. But the reason I do is because i genuinely make them regularly as town(and sometimes i fake them as town too). Basically, even if I were scum here, I would have posted nearly the same exact thing. But it could have been slightly different depending on partners. If you really care about sorting me i have games where I show that lines like this are NAI, just read my history lmfao. I won't ever push meta that says im outside my scumrange, but I will push meta that what you're pushing is fully NAI.


anyways self meta over -

gimli have you considered its RVS and that people who know eachother and have played with eachother are liklier to have implicit bias towards eachother? I tend to push people early who annoy me or who i dislike. It's easier and more natural for me. I don't tunnel them forever unless I genuinely scumread them. This is probably also true of raya wrt the lighter tone towards me - we've played together and i've played in a game she's modded. We're chill and don't wanna go at eachothers throats like that.

I will say the ashoka vote isn't bad, that entrance is pretty flimsy. I'd rather figure out if this is just playstyle > scum being unsure and playing aloof. but lets play with it VOTE: ashoka

You say Gimli is approaching in terrible faith but then vote the person Gimli is voting. Why is that?
If I remembered correctly, Gimli is the one with the entrance I found show-y and Ashoka is the one that I can't remember anything about but both have similar avatars.

Radja is obvscum

I would like an explanation on this.

It reflects me as malicious, but not explicitly. It is a personal feeling.

I already made some posts of mech stuff (as scum) and even though it should be seen naturally as nai, I noticed that some players seemed to trust me more.

Here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11811488

Not saying it is scummy, but in the context of Volxen, who is a very competent player as scum, it gave me a shiver.

I remember other example too about I correctly scumreading scum with the same feeling, but I need to take a look to see if I can find the game.

I have never seen someone make a mech post likely due to me not playing any complicated games like this one but I don't see how it would make anyone look more towny.

I'm a little worried this is setting up for pushing but I guess we'll see.

This is really a stretch. My scumread here stands.

I don't know Volxen but I'll keep this in mind. That was a long explanation to say that's not who you'd push as scum. Self-meta like that isn't something I read into much. For all I know the reason you're potentially setting up a push on volxen instead of the other options you gave is because the other options include your partners.

Once again, what is this? I hate nearly every post she makes.

People play expecting town to have reads, but a townie shouldn't have strong reads at this point in the game. I will converse as I see fit, and these conversations will look good to look at in hindsight, which is why I converse.

I have given my thoughts on the stuff that stood out the most.

you're lockscum

I don't have a specific opinion on any one of Ashoka's posts but I definitely do not find them scummy.

I don't know Gimli, but I know you and Kkoba, so let's fight. Shall we?

I believe this push on me is fabricated. I believe there are town on my wagon currently, as I specifically do not think Gimli and Dkkoba are both scum voting me.

Clidd can be scum because they hard misrepped me right when momentum on me could have gone either way. They can be impatient town. Either way, this should end up amusing.

This I hate very much for how defensive it is. I am considering moving this down to scum read.

pedit: what

Off this alone, clidd is now my top townread.

oh hi flavor leaf

Who is that?

oh hi flavor leaf

ow about you let other people decide if that is a townslip? also fair to note DK was annoying my slot cause redflavor had like a small hint of being mechanically aware, and now they're looking like they don't know anything at all about the game they're playing. so how does dkkoba know there's a doomcounter and they don't know there's 3 mafia?

DK can correct me if I am wrong, but I interpreted their reasoning behind their early Red scumread as that, if Red rolled scum the doom counter would be fresher in his mind since it’s mentioned in the scum role PM, whereas the DC is not mentioned in the town role PM. I don’t think it’s a great reason to be scumreading your slot, but I believe that is where DK is coming from regarding the scumread of Red’s opener.

I don’t think it’s really far-fetched that town!DK could have been aware of the DC early on but glossed over the fact that there are three scum vs two scum. DK might have simply focused on the DC part of the setup information and overlooked the number of town vs scum if they were reading the setup primarily to learn about the DC mechanic.

The alternative explanation is that DK is scum and faked all of these “mistakes” by pretending to think that there were only two scum, and that scum could also nightkill. I don’t think this is as likely because DK’s progression that started with incorrect analysis (2 scum and nightkills) and ended with them realizing their mistakes seemed genuine to me.

Also, if you look back at the early interactions between Red and DK at the very beginning of the game (5, 6, 7), DK’s posts where they called Red’s opener scummy and said it was a somewhat serious vote came 2 minutes after Red’s “hardclaim DC” opener. Scum!DK couldn’t have possibly pre-planned that opener, unless they are scum with your slot. And if you are town and DK is scum, I don’t know that DK would be able to come up with that fake reasoning to scumread Red over his opener that quickly. Granted, DK only initially said that Red’s opener was scummy without explaining why, but they knew they would have to eventually explain why (and DK did as soon as Red replaced out), so I think that regardless of DK’s alignment they knew what the explanation of the scumread was going to be at the time that they called Red’s opener scummy. I think it’s more likely to be a genuine thought process coming from town!DK rather than a fake thought process coming from scum!DK, especially when the short time lapse is taken into account.

I'm going to have to ask you to explain exactly where you stand because this post is not faring well with my brain after an entire day of work.

volxen im feeling that vibe u fit into a very similar archaetype of player like I do

Volxen is a townread because Dkkoba posted this.

just so you won't think I'm picking on you, I just found all your posting to be scum indicative as I was catching up. I could be wrong of course.

There were a few instances where I had to get my glasses and make sure I was reading correctly but I disagree that all of it was bad.

VOTE: horsewoman come play

I townread this.

Radja is still obvscum

Dropped to scum read until I get an explanation for this.

So you don't have any strong read that you like to talk and that's ok because it's page 6 and I'm the villain for wanting to force something that theoretically you would not be able to deliver bc you're town and town don't have real reads early game. Is that it?

I don't like clidd twisting this to make it sound like he was being targeted. I never interpreted anything Ahsoka said as calling him a villain or even sussing him.
I'm going to move over here VOTE: clidd

pedit: I feel like a villain by the tone you approached the subject, but don't worry.

The tone felt fine to me too. Maybe just because it wasn't directed at me but I don't see how it made him feel like a villain.

I'm a little worried this is setting up for pushing but I guess we'll see.

I usually push players who are vocally weaker compared to me as scum, and Volxen doesn't fit that criteria.

Unless I have a specific context for pushing a player that is vocally difficult to eliminate (as I did on partition with ABR)

After our last game together -- where we were both town and I incorrectly scumread you early on in the game because I was suspicious of your "easy" townread on me -- I think it's plausible that scum!you would be aggressive towards my slot and push me in the beginning. You know I'm skeptical of people who townread me if I can't follow their reasoning. So if anything, I would expect scum!you to err on the side of being too aggressive towards my slot (rather than whiteknight me), at least initially, because you could always pull back later and have your read of me "evolve" into a townread if I started to become more widely townread.

I don't know if scum!you would necessarily deathtunnel me, but I am convinced after our last game together that scum!you would be very cautious with things like the timing of when you might fake a townread on me and your fake reasons for doing so, because you know that I would call you out on it if I felt that your reasons for townreading me were not genuine.

So I don't buy this narrative at all that scum!you would always start off by pushing the less vocal slots.

Then this further supports my point earlier that clidd might be setting up a push.

I hate Raya's posting way too much. Every post looks so scummy. This is my top scum read.

An example of this type of impression is this post (

town!volxen

):

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12060913

I can feel it when Volxen presents a line of reasoning that I look at and think ''gee, this analysis is super towny, I think I would think the same if we switch places''.

Unlike this, for example (

scum!volxen

):

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11618440

Where I can smell superficiality 1 km away.

It seems to me that you were the opposite alignment both times. If that is true, I am hesitant to believe this analysis.

But hopefully, we are in a reality where everything is flowing as I expected and my reads on the slots are going well.

This sounds a little self conscious.

regardless of clidd's alignment, raya is my first locktown

Why?

regardless of clidd's alignment, raya is my first locktown

I cc

Why?

(Mixed up who replaced into which slot)

I feel like this comes from town more than scum. I'm going to lift this to null.

horsewoman is avoiding this thread for some reason?? also who are they cause i suddenly saw them post in a certain thread that i have never seen them post in!!! im suspicious of u in the context of site user not necessarily in the context of being scum

Is there a difference?

Hullo! I wish you all a great sunday ahead.

I'm not really following what Raya and clidd are arguing about.

Gimli's "regardless of clidd's alignment, Raya is locktown" seems really weird to me. Why would a clidd flip not make you reconsider your read?

Maybe if you understood their argument you'd understand why I'm so hard in leaning raya town. It does appear to me that raya, volxen and clidd are playing something of a game of their own, with all that combined meta and wits between the 3 of them. Raya caught clidd being too hasty in townreading volxen for something volxen did that isn't supposed to be read as towny, and I think the push in that direction was too nuanced to ever come from scum. Even if clidd is town, that doesn't diminish the towniness in raya's thought process.

Speaking of which, I was a little uneasy with clidd's strong TR of me, because my TR of clidd was weaking at that point and I think he noticed it (given I was open about strong townreading raya), and I felt that maybe clidd decided to try to maintain himself on my good side by pocketing me. I'm not sure my posts were towny enough to be townread that strongly.

I absolutely hated the push on clidd. It looked very slimy. I don't think past experience with a player justifies nasty pushes like that.

Ahsoka seems like a bit of an oddball type of player, and as an oddball myself I sympathize with how hard it is sometimes to make yourself understood. That is to say I might have been too hasty in identifying the oddity of her posting as scummy, and a post such as this appears to have layers of genuine solvey thought processes. It's not a strong read but I've been liking the way she responded to all the pressure.

This switched too fast but I still think it's a towny thought process. I think I'm going to officially move Gimli up to a townread.

did a re-read on the entire thing.

clidd is a stronger townlean now than before the re-read. I think what bothers me the most about him is townreading volxen based off nothing, then trying to act smart about it. I'm also townreading ahsoka now. I think the way she developed her posting in thread was very natural and the way she responded to pressure was good. it's not much but I gotta work with this townpool for now <raya, ahsoka, clidd>.

if I squint real hard, I can see something towny about radja. NM did nothing either way.

that leaves me with volxen, dkkoba and horsewoman. volxen's wall defending dkkoba's tripping over themselves at the beginning of d1 and then dkkoba going 'i feel naked uwu' and then defending volxen when no one was pushing him are all suspicious to me. + no one pushed horsewoman yet, someone who was just here to complain about a game having 6 pages 36 hours into it. if she was town there'd be a wagon already.

Volxen was dropped to a null once my scum read on dkkoba faded out.
I agree with the clidd townread.
Ahsoka is a null for me for now. I've wavered in between townread and null for them so I think the townread is reasonable.
Raya I disagree with entirely. She hasn't posted a single post that I haven't felt was extremely scummy.

horsewoman is avoiding this thread for some reason?? also who are they cause i suddenly saw them post in a certain thread that i have never seen them post in!!! im suspicious of u in the context of site user not necessarily in the context of being scum

new user posts in thread for first time. absolutely shocking. i should have just used quantum time travel to post in a thread before having posted in it for the first time.

Like come on man, bring the game into the game, bring your paranoid crap into the admins DMs not here.

This level of anger and frustration doesn't feel fake. I'm going to call it town.

I mean obviously this is forced and ridiculous (doing actual game-related catchup now)

This can be my new top townread.

This, however, is a relatively lazy read from Gimli. Just finished a game with him (my first game onsite so don't expect any other meta from me) where he was scum and he was universally townread and really competent. So he's someone I want to have my eye on throughout this one.

I'm honestly unsure what I think of Gimli currently. His entrance made me think scum but after that mostly everything was null or townread material. I can't remember most of his posts also. I can only think of off the top of my head one readslist that I agreed with except for the Raya read.

Okay this reads list is so bad I'm joining this wagon

VOTE: Radja.

I'm caught up, it was super easy and fast because most of the 12 pages was dkkoba spewing nonsense. Although I don't mind making short multiposts, I think posting as much as koba is is kind of anti-town (at least on mafiascum, where games are soooooooo slow), so I would advise koba to cut that aspect out of his playstyle/this game.

Gimli's playing pretty differently than he did in our game together. And by that I mean worse. I think paradoxically that makes him more likely to be town here? He's producing less reads and less analysis but that might be because he's only producing genuine reads/analysis. Want to see more from him. Koba has made a lot of posts I disagree with and posts like 223 really rub me the wrong way. Radja's reads list is so atrocious I don't think it can come from anyone trying to solve/read the game. I'm kind of biased against koba because he's accused me (without evidence) of being an alt of a guy who was apparently banned for sexual harassment, and that's a really fucking uncool thing to do. So I've got personal animus there. Post 217 from clidd I really dislike, the thought process of 'I agree with him so he's town' is itself, really artificial. I liked ahsoka's posting a reasonable amount.

Now I'm having problems with this readslist.
Clidd is solid town. Occasionally I question it but overall, I'm pretty sure he's just town.
Gimli and Dkkoba are still nulls. I dont think I'm willing to give either a townread thinking back on that.
I think I was too quick to townread this and am dropping it to null now.

Radja/horsewoman/Gimli

Radja/horsewoman/Gimli

the way this is my exact GtH solve rn

This sort of interaction is the sort I'd usually say wouldn't be between two scum but I think it has a high chance of being so here. That's because the setup of 3 scum out of 9 heavily incentivizes the scum to buddy up and stick together, because if all 3 are going the same way they only need 2 town to join them. So basically I'm saying that bussing is incredibly unlikely and scum overtly allying is much more possible.

I don't think they are scum together.

I'm saying that close buddying up in this game is more likely to be scummy in this game than other games. You and N_M have closely buddied up, which in the context of this game, is scummy behaviour. Please don't immaturely attempt to own me.

Nevermind. I think this has to be town. Back to town reads.

Town: Clidd, Horsewoman
Null: Ahsoka, Gimli, Dkkoba, V-something
Scum: Raya, Not_Mafia

I'm halfway caught up with a full set of reads and a decent amount of confidence! This is it for tonight and I'll be back to read the rest tomorrow.

She had a very similar format to her scumgame until I started mentioning it (which was when she started making wallposts) and differentiate her play from that game.

[clidd]

I mean, yeah, she showed some effort and tried to protect Dgb, but each wallpost reflects me in a strange way and her opinions, although seem pro-town on the surface, are difficult to imagine as coming from a town mentality, in the sense that her intentions do not seem transparent to me (almost as if she had some other hidden goal).

[clidd]

Although the fact that she arrived E-1 at some point still bothers me, but that must have some other explanation.

I just think everyone else has a reason to be town above her, even Flea.

[clidd]

And if I had to guess the other two scums, well..



But perhaps it'll be more evident by PoE (eventually).

[clidd]

The spam is +town for Pooky.

[LlamaFluff]

@Clidd - Wouldnt those things about Ame to you suggest that means she is scum with Flea (unless you think she called no buddies scum, you/Flea are both there) and a PR claim?

[clidd]

@Clidd - Wouldnt those things about Ame to you suggest that means she is scum with Flea (unless you think she called no buddies scum, you/Flea are both there) and a PR claim?

No, I'm only viewing Amélie as scum atm.

After confirming the flip, I can try to trace associatives from reading her ISO (with the knowledge that she's scum). But before that, I am not 100% sure on this read, so my judgment of partners will probably not be accurate.

Regarding PRs, I feel that there is a scum among PRs but this is not connected to my read on Amélie.

[clidd]

In other words, I'm still considering a scenario where I can be wrong about her.

Her last post, however, didn’t reflect me as towny, regardless of how she’s seeing my slot rn.

[LlamaFluff]

@Clidd - Wouldnt those things about Ame to you suggest that means she is scum with Flea (unless you think she called no buddies scum, you/Flea are both there) and a PR claim?

No, I'm only viewing Amélie as scum atm.

After confirming the flip, I can try to trace associatives from reading her ISO (with the knowledge that she's scum). But before that, I am not 100% sure on this read, so my judgment of partners will probably not be accurate.

Regarding PRs, I feel that there is a scum among PRs but this is not connected to my read on Amélie.

Im just saying if she is scum, do you think she is actually not calling any partners null or scum? Its only four of them alive, the PRs are two of them, you and Flea are the other two.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if we assume the 2 TPRs are real cuz I think mini normals r basically ~5 TPRs and that makes sense. Does any1 want to counterclaim another TPR?

Otherwise I'm gonna just townbin a50/me and lotus+llama as innos and we try to find 3 scum in the 5 people left over?

[clidd]

No idea. Scum!she can be townreading or scumreading a partner according to what the gamestate needs.

pedit: I don't get the inno thing, but yes, these two are out of my poe for scum (llama/lotus).

[LlamaFluff]

if we assume the 2 TPRs are real cuz I think mini normals r basically ~5 TPRs and that makes sense. Does any1 want to counterclaim another TPR?

Otherwise I'm gonna just townbin a50/me and lotus+llama as innos and we try to find 3 scum in the 5 people left over?

My big fear with that is still there are just as many town PRs that give a false positive as there would be scum PRs, that seems pretty absurd, especially as apparently there is no scum RB. Thats what feels off. I dont doubt either claim is false role wise, but content wise it could be.

@Clidd - Do you have examples of Ame using that same list as town? I usually dislike meta overall though beyond more than just a good baseline of a players general competence, activity, content and demeanor but its at least worth looking at.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ive played 1 game with a gunsmith and a mafia doctor in the same game and it had announced pre-game that there was a mafia doctor.

also I dont think it makes sense to have a mafia doctor if there's no townside vig

[clidd]

@Llama

This is a towngame from her:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

It looks different to me, although she used the readlist model there as well.

Idk, I'm just not being able to place her slot on the same level as the others.

[Amélie]

im gonna sheep llama cuz hes the only one who i am sure is town and i am also fustrated enough by this game that I no longer want to spend effort on it

You think just because he is town his reads are correct?

I really.want to stop over thinking what there can and can't be though as I'll only get tunneled on this.
I do think outside of the PRs is still okay.
Llama is most likely town even if Pooky isn't. Llama wasn't at any risk of being flipped today so it's just a bizarre scum / scum check.
Lotus should only be locked town if A50 ever flips scum now.
Town A50 just means chance that mafia doc was hit, odds are low though so town and not for a lim.

Flea just seems to be the scum mis lim build up today.

I think it could just be Gera / Clidd / amelie here.
If I'm wrong there then Clidd is town and I have to re think the 3rd. Amelie is the PR though as this slot has had too much resistance for providing so little to the game.

Why do you think Clidd or Geraintm could ever be scum with me?

Meh, kind of waiting for Gera to post more and Amélie to share what she's thinking.

It's interesting. Every time you post, you call me scum but then come to a conclusion yourself without any content from me.
I think my vote here is legitimate at this point.
When you first came into the game I felt something was off but your effort threw me off. I know one of you and VFP are scum and it doesn't really matter who goes today because the pool Clidd and VFP definitely has scum.

Vfp still reflects me as town. I can only see his slot as scum by PoE.

I could see this as pocketing.

VOTE: Flea

I have a feeling it's going to be worthless to try a lim else where.

So you keep saying Amélie is scum but since Flea is easier to elim, you're going to vote Flea...

ok, looking at people i am most sus of in order

Clidd: i didn't liek them day 1
i see that they were the hammer on day 2 too.

The sad thing is that he could be playing like that as town.

But there is no gamesolving on his part, so.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

^^^ this is about me, calling me out for not attempting to solve the game. my vote at this point was on clidd btw. it feels like he wants me to move my vote - gamesolving feels like code for "i want them to move somewhere else"
there was another post earlier aimed at pooky imloring them to solve.

they were voting me from 1909 and then we get

If not Gera, A50 is the slot that makes more sense as a counter-wagon by play to me, but the slot claimed pr so I'm not touching him today unless Gera somehow didn't happen.

I can do A50 if two more players agree to join the wagon.

I was going to vote a50 but Gera did a really weird post.

Let me think about it again before voting.

Do you guys want me to hammer?

I prefer an elimination to no-elimination.

Unless the Gera wagon suddenly gains traction.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

It's time to get a flip, regardless of the content.

that isn't solving. im not sure what it is, but considering how the vibe i got from them is always demanding more from others but not actually going through other people's posts and pointing out inconsistencies or anything, i find it back. being on both wagons, seemingly on day 2 doing everything that could to not be on the DGB wagon until the very end...i don't like it

Flea

they were Alice day 1 and not on the wagon.
but day 2, boy were they all over DGB
their 5th post they voted for them. and it never, ever moved. I am someone who it takes a lot to get me worked up to a vote, and i cannot understand how a player new to game is so certain and just never shifts. it is the sort of thing i might do, but it is unusual from anyone else.
is this normal for flea?

they do admit day 3 to being the strong lead on the DGB wagon and expect to be pnished for it, but also doing a woe is me thing with regards gretchen.
i am not a fan (i think without flea in the game teh DGB wagon would never have stayed around all day like it did) but i hate clidd more

i look at the wagon that formed on me yesterday

VFP, PookyTheMagicalBear, clidd, LlamaFluff, RLotus

that feels like the last 2 are town, so the people driving it are on their early. clidd just keeps popping up everywhere i look, and i want to play the odds on catching scum.
VOTE: clidd

sorry, no more time to post now

I think geraintm is scum but if he wants to bus his buddy, by all means, do so. I won't stop you.

When Clidd flips scum, Geraintm is the scum buddy. If Clidd is town, scum isn't Geraintm.

[Amélie]

i dunno if u r town im just sheeping llama

Why are you sheeping llama? Clidd and VFP has scum and whichever it is will be much harder to catch later whereas Flea, if scum is not a threat to town.

I have a feeling it's going to be worthless to try a lim else where.

Im willing to go elsewhere for sure. Its probably A50 and then two of Flea, You, Clidd, Gera and Ame

Site is still freaking out for me, so will see how catchup goes.

Then I suggest Gera or amelie.

Gera only started because of the position players were in.
Flea basically out right said they won't vote Gera when the lim looked set. It was a strange take from someone who claims to prefer a self lim to a no lim.
Clidd voted in a reasonable spot and didn't jump off until last moment when it was obvious Gera wasn't happening. Suggests not S/S.
The main reason is the people just avoiding the wagon. amelie, A50.

amelie is just out right refusing to push anything productive in this game. 1932 will vote anywhere, then disappears and does nothing. This kind of play is a lot worse than Fleas.
Ever since I called amelie out for convenient read lists, we haven't seen any. So amelie has just stopped what I said was scummy?
Let's note forget that for how amelie is playing, this has been the hardest wagon to get focus or agreeing on.

Flea is on the boarder now as "obviously scum" which feels scum made. Flea is surely only scum if Gera is. Why would Flea want to lim DGB over Gera, if DGB can be today's mis lim? And the killing Gretechen seems either A) Gretchen had the right reads B) let's set Flea up as any easy mis lim.
There's a chance that scummy actions is just scum here. I don't see a lim going else where by end of the day, regardless of what takes are presented.

Also with the claim we just do just it instead of waiting for anyone to say yes or no.
Just give the list although I'm suspecting that I can predict every claim.

The day ended before I checked in again. How is that "disappears and does nothing"? What's wrong with not posting anymore reads lists? Have you ever considered that no one is agreeing on it because I am town?

the 3 scum are clidd vfp and flea

VFP and Clidd as scum together would be a very dangerous gambit on their end because their reads are the exact same and both have been constantly pushing me and voting elsewhere and back and forth. They are never both scum or both town. It's impossible.

[Amélie]

Where's your fire gone VFP? where's your spark?

Like I said, I can tell a loss in a game.
Let me explain what happens.

We lim town today.
Tomorrow a PR dies and the other doesn't get a result. That PR then gets lim because too convenient. That PR flips town.

Or...
We lim town today
Tomorrow a town dies (maybe PR). Other PR says a clear on a name (and is actually scum), town get lim.

If I feel town can win, I'll show the fire.

It's hard to believe town wrote this but clidd seems to be pocketing you so if he is the scum in the pair, you are town.

i already said who i think the three scum r

it doesnt matter what order we eliminate them in

VFP and Clidd are never scum together.

It's not normal for town!Pooky to read me as scum here and this level of confidence is not compatible with the strength of his reads.

His frustration, however, struck me as a town sign and is in conflict with the impression above. I do believe that A50 is more likely to be scum among PRs, if any, although Pooky seems to be scumsiding atm (maybe unconsciously).

Clidd scum means Pooky conftown because scum never says this to scum.

[Amélie]

Well VFP just feels obvtown at this point. At least how he feels about the game is clicking with how I feel about the game, it doesn't feel town is in control at all.

Similar with clidd actually, his confusion is very much justified I feel.

Basically I'm sensing a lot of false confidence and that does not feel right from my view of the game.

I had a gut feeling at the start of the day of clidd being scum, but re-reading him I think I'm willing to take him as town. Plus, it was in part because I thought he had partner potential with Pooky.

VFP is not obvtown and one of VFP and Clidd has to be scum. There is no other reason the game state looks like this.

It is indeed strange that Llama is declaring himself conf town when he should know that is not the case.

Also strange that Llama omitted geraintm from the pool of people that A50 should check. Geraintm is in no way obvious town at this point.

Another thing is giving A50 a choice of check these people or we are killing you tomorrow is complete bullshit, especially if we miss today. We are going to evaluate his play as a whole rather than him making a wrong check makes him conf scum and decide from there.

I don't know if Llama is conftown but I know that they are obvtown to me. If Llama really is scum, it should become obvious with time.

And why has no one pointed out that A50's claim just fits nicely with the other PRs? Gretchen and DGB had roles that sort of mirror each other and A50 and Biped have roles that mirror each other.

Sure I guess A50 could have just made a claim that looks nice. But he got pretty lucky calling me practically clear and then a role that indeed practically clears me is the convenient one to claim.

Let's compare Pooky and A50's claims.

Solon says I am practically clear or something to that effect. Goes on to claim gunsmith. Checks out.
Dann says DGB is 90% scum. Goes on to claim Neapolitan. Smells like bullshit.

Maybe I'm wrong, but if one of the PRs is scum my money is on Pooky.

I don't know anything about mech so I will not be participating in mech discussions. A50 is definitely scum if both Clidd and VFP flip town which is impossible. So A50 could be either at this point.

Dann says DGB is 90% scum. Goes on to claim Neapolitan. Smells like bullshit.

Dann is not playing anymore.

I am playing.

I said DGB is town

you didn't listen to me and you elimmed DGB

now you are trying to blame me for you making a shitty vote and elimming DGB.

You're literally ridiculous

You are being so dense about this I am not going to argue with you about it anymore

Every statement I have made is a fact that any person can see and verify for themselves without need to know my role pm.

I am not being dense - I am being as concise and factual as I can be.

You are being unbelievably dense like if I took Mount Everest and crushed it into a 4x4 cube, that would describe how dense you are being.

WHY THE F!)U*)!#*$)~$*)@ HELLL ARE YOU FOCUSING ON WHAT DANN SAID ABOUT DGB INSTEAD OF WHAT I SAID ABOUT DGB

OOOOH IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT POOKY SAID ABOUT DGB

IT DOESNT MATTER THAT POOKY IS RIGHT ABOUT DGB BEING TOWN

IT DOESNT MATTER THAT LOTUS IGNORED POOKY AND ELIMMED TOWN DGB

NOOOOO WHAT REALLY MATTERS IS WHAT DANNNNNN SAID ABOUT DGB ONE THOUSAND POSTS AGOOOOOOOO

this is you voting for DGB:




this is me defending DGB:






You saying trying to shade me for things that Dann said about DGB when I literally defended DGB and tried to not let DGB die while you voted for DGB and got DGB killed is just so dense.

I don't even care if you are town anymore

VOTE: Lotus

never moving this vote

you deserve to lose whatever alignment you are

I'm not sure what to think about this. I've spectated one game that Pooky played in and he was very different from here. This feels like an overreaction but I would say it is not enough reason to elim pooky today.
This frustration is saying

I want you dead. You could be town but fuck you anyways.

That's not smart scum play.

[clidd]

I can tell when town is scumreading me and you definitely don't reflect me as coming from a town mentality.

[clidd]

You're basically throwing shade in several directions but voting for me because I'm pushing you. If I reconsidered, you would change your stance and I don't think that mirroring is something that town!you would do.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Flea

I still think this is the move.

[VFP]

I don't know if Llama is conftown but I know that they are obvtown to me. If Llama really is scum, it should become obvious with time.

It's comments like this that just make me think I could be onto something.
Why would Llama in particular become obvious as scum over everyone else? To my knowledge you don't have experience together?
Either that or everything you just posted is safe and convenient.
It's basically an over extended post that just keeps saying me and Clidd aren't scum together.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

llama is conf town because my investigation result says they are a vanilla townie

VOTE: flea

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

neapolitian does not get "vanilla" as a result when they investigate mafia goons. it's either vanilla townie or not vanilla townie.