Open 808: The Council Has Spoken

[yessiree]

well yesiree looks more town than Nono at least.

wish I can say the same about you buddy

[yessiree]

I want to hammer.

But also doesh't want, because not sure if we should really.

What happened to onePUNCHman?

(if you're scum, I commend you for this posturing)

[yessiree]

I think killing T-Bone is... Bad decision.

Let me explain. We have tracks, as you remember. So, why not just track T-Bone?

If he is Mafia, he will skip/get catched. Either way we win or No Kill will happen.
Mafia will kill him and get rid of one of suspects for free.
Or Mafia will kill someone else, clearing T-Bone.

Why not? I find T-Bone powerful as Confirmed Townie. And stopping kill in theory could be useful.

you've been charmed by T-Bone's powerful charisma. Strong players will make you feel awful for trying to eliminate them, this much is given, and this is probably what you're going through now

As for your plan, seems ridiculous at first glance, but I get it somewhat after giving it some thought

[yessiree]

I mean, do you anticipate that your partner is gonna ghost you? I don't think I would.

If not Nono though, who are you looking at and why?

There's an in between though. A50 and Nono is too much.

I'm looking at you, if not yessiree, if not BM. Everyone else has a reason to be basically clear or highly townread. We eliminate you, get info overnight, reevaluate everyone's pools.

Do you think I'm scum or not?

You're flipping me for info??? If I was scum it would end the game, no info needed.

So if you don't think I'm scum, then there's no reason to flip me. This doesn't make sense.

Are you posting like you already know I'm town? What is this?

I know I'm not the first person to say this of T-Bone, but this screams 'scum thinking they were caught for the wrong reasons'.

Actually I don't get that kinda vibe from that post.

[yessiree]

Raya, for what it's worth, I am a straight forward player. WIFOM is a bad tool and I don't set out to create it. Do with that information what you will.

I at least don't want you to be the elim today anymore I don't think. I'd rather go elsewhere and see what we can come up with with the info we get next night.

I can't seem to get rid of the thought that BM and T-Bone is TvS in some order and I'm being manipulated by one of you but that could just be my paranoia speaking.

If Moz doesn't make that much sense, and T-Bone is actually just town. And yessiree has a higher chance of being clear because scum could have killed then maybe nono is the best choice.

call me prejudiced against women but I just can't see this coming from a cold, calculating and cunning woman, pitting T-Bone against Battle Mage just so she can look like a paranoid townie trying to navigate through the destruction in its wake - it's notably genuine indecisiveness that stems from a lack of information on either party's alignment, which points to town!rayas for me

I think that's a small leap. Raya had generally tried to stay out of that dispute, and when she had been involved, it was generally to agree with whoever was posting at the time. It was only later when she was brought into focus herself, that she was more actively engaged. So I don't think a hypothetical scum-Raya would have been required to do anything cold, calculating or cunning here - just use the obvious battle in progress as a route to 2 mis-elims. What stood out to me was her request that I volunteer to be elimmed tomorrow if T-Bone flips town - which fits that profile, and the narrative of scum who require mis-elims on the A50 wagon to win.

Scum would be more laid back and just watch the chaos unfold imo. I wouldn't expect this level of participation from scum!Raya. But really this was more of a tonal read at how she expressed she was afraid of being manipulated by one of you.

[Battle Mage]

3. In contrast to 2, your proposed night actions do come with a scum motive, as I laid out in post 848, and more generally the idea of not using the tracker to try and catch scum killing beggars belief.

Aren't his idea was to use Track on T-Bone and No-Protect?

correct, this is "not using the tracker to try and catch scum" i.e. not using the tracker in a way where it can potentially result in a guilty-investigation.

[Battle Mage]

Raya, for what it's worth, I am a straight forward player. WIFOM is a bad tool and I don't set out to create it. Do with that information what you will.

I at least don't want you to be the elim today anymore I don't think. I'd rather go elsewhere and see what we can come up with with the info we get next night.

I can't seem to get rid of the thought that BM and T-Bone is TvS in some order and I'm being manipulated by one of you but that could just be my paranoia speaking.

If Moz doesn't make that much sense, and T-Bone is actually just town. And yessiree has a higher chance of being clear because scum could have killed then maybe nono is the best choice.

call me prejudiced against women but I just can't see this coming from a cold, calculating and cunning woman, pitting T-Bone against Battle Mage just so she can look like a paranoid townie trying to navigate through the destruction in its wake - it's notably genuine indecisiveness that stems from a lack of information on either party's alignment, which points to town!rayas for me

I think that's a small leap. Raya had generally tried to stay out of that dispute, and when she had been involved, it was generally to agree with whoever was posting at the time. It was only later when she was brought into focus herself, that she was more actively engaged. So I don't think a hypothetical scum-Raya would have been required to do anything cold, calculating or cunning here - just use the obvious battle in progress as a route to 2 mis-elims. What stood out to me was her request that I volunteer to be elimmed tomorrow if T-Bone flips town - which fits that profile, and the narrative of scum who require mis-elims on the A50 wagon to win.

That's a fair analysis but you turning it around on me only swaps our positions and now what you said about me applies to yourself to some extent

aye, that's fair

[yessiree]

Raya, for what it's worth, I am a straight forward player. WIFOM is a bad tool and I don't set out to create it. Do with that information what you will.

I at least don't want you to be the elim today anymore I don't think. I'd rather go elsewhere and see what we can come up with with the info we get next night.

I can't seem to get rid of the thought that BM and T-Bone is TvS in some order and I'm being manipulated by one of you but that could just be my paranoia speaking.

If Moz doesn't make that much sense, and T-Bone is actually just town. And yessiree has a higher chance of being clear because scum could have killed then maybe nono is the best choice.

call me prejudiced against women but I just can't see this coming from a cold, calculating and cunning woman, pitting T-Bone against Battle Mage just so she can look like a paranoid townie trying to navigate through the destruction in its wake - it's notably genuine indecisiveness that stems from a lack of information on either party's alignment, which points to town!rayas for me

I think that's a small leap. Raya had generally tried to stay out of that dispute, and when she had been involved, it was generally to agree with whoever was posting at the time. It was only later when she was brought into focus herself, that she was more actively engaged. So I don't think a hypothetical scum-Raya would have been required to do anything cold, calculating or cunning here - just use the obvious battle in progress as a route to 2 mis-elims. What stood out to me was her request that I volunteer to be elimmed tomorrow if T-Bone flips town - which fits that profile, and the narrative of scum who require mis-elims on the A50 wagon to win.

That's a fair analysis but you turning it around on me only swaps our positions and now what you said about me applies to yourself to some extent

I don't think it's an proportionate comparison, but this uno-reverse card made me chuckle

[Battle Mage]

Raya. In post 855 BM once again suggested that I didn't want to use the track. Can you confirm or deny this as truth? Did I at any point ever suggest not using the track action?

lol no i think i just worded the sentence poorly - it was not an inference that you didn't want to use the track, it was an inference that you didn't want to use the track IN A WAY WHICH COULD RESULT IN A RED-CHECK. I clarified in a response to Enchant above.

this exploitative strawmanning, at the expense of actually engaging with the substance of my posts to you, is gross.

[Battle Mage]

Actually Enchant, flip me after Raya confirms this. I want the last thing you all there is BM lying about my intentions. He's trying to manipulate you all into believing I was against using both actions because I didn't want to use the doctor action. His ploy in 855 is plain to see. Flip him tomorrow and we win.

...if you really thought I was scum, would that be the only thing in post 855 you focus on? A poorly worded sentence (for which, to be clear, there is no scum motive for me to demonstrably lie about). T-Bone has been playing the game long enough to know that scum seldom, if ever, lie about things which can be readily proven factually false - so his interpretation is negative and ultimately results in...a moot point.

[Battle Mage]

3. In contrast to 2, your proposed night actions do come with a scum motive, as I laid out in post 848, and more generally the idea of not using the tracker to try and catch scum killing beggars belief.

Right here, let this be a monument to BM's scum game. I apologize for all the posts in a row. This did not happen. I never suggested not using the track action.

I've answered this several times already.

In fact my suggestion was more likely to catch scum than what we ultimately did.

Err, no - this is factually incorrect. Your suggestion to track within the council literally gave us NO chance of catching scum. Which is precisely my point about using the tracker ability outside of the council.

BM is trying to imply that I suggested using no actions, right here.

This is the second time he's done so.

He's gonna post and claim this isn't what he meant in a moment. But this is what he posted, he can't take it back.

Man this is so weak You know you've distorted what I actually meant and are just trying to cheaply exploit it to get yourself off the hook. Try reading the sentence again IN FULL. Your interpretation is based on truncating it halfway through. I said you did not want to use the tracker ability

to catch scum

, not that you didn't want to use the tracker ability.

Then of course, ignore everything BM says in council tonight. It's unfortunate that he conned his way in, but it is what it is. The way council works is that anyone can confirm the actions. The last person to confirm an action is what sets the action. You don't need BM's consensus. Do whatever you think is best with the night actions to force his hand, and feel safe and secure in the fact that you do not need his cooperation, you just need to ensure either you are Arte are the last person to confirm the council's action.

lol in a hypothetical world where I was scum, it's beyond ridiculous to suggest that I would over-rule Enchant and Artemiana to singularly determine the night-actions (1 of which I think we've already pre-agreed here). Just more AtE and conspiracy-theorising instead of meaningful scumhunting.

[Battle Mage]

Either way I've caught BM in enough falsehoods, misrepresentations, and manipulations that you all should have no problem eliminating him tomorrow.

Say it with me class. 'T-Bone, we will have no problems eliminating Battle Mage tomorrow'.

Please and thank you.

In the event you are town, can you briefly summarise your case? As noted previously, I think it amounts to the fact I thought using the protect was better than not using the protect, which in retrospect may not have been optimal, and a bad faith reading of my posts where you've claimed I lied when I didn't (and of course, wouldn't have even if I was scum). None of the aforementioned is alignment indicative, so I'm sure I'm missing something significant, given your passionate conviction that I'm scum?

[Enchant]

Let's think about T-Bone motivation for a bit.


If T-Bone is Mafia:
So he suddenly realise, he is alone now. And his suggestion is "No Kill and Track me". So he forcing self for no-kill state. For what? If he is tracked and no one died, it doesh't confirm him at all. Could be it just bluff?

If T-Bone is Town:
Probably he acknowlidge, he in bad position from last day and can be mislynched. So his suggestion was to track him. If kill happened, it autoclears him. Would townie do that? Yeah, especially if T-Bone assumed if mafia skipped, they are idiots. So he probably sured mafia will kill someone, clear him and save us from some headache.


I still think, it's not favorable for mafia to kill anyone, but i can see T-Bone motive as Townie, but motivation as mafia would be only do that to seed doubt.

[mozamis]

So have we lynched Nono yet? Or are we running round in cirlces, chasing our tails, and inadvertantly... quoting Coldplay.Shit lol Tho that was one of their best tunes
Joking aside, that is a danger. I feel we have clear scum in our sites, can't we elim?
#Vote Nono

[mozamis]

i'm not gonna read pages of town v town ego clashes.
Bm and Tbone are so effing town.
Could you guys agree to disagree and move on, vote Nono, and win the game?

[T-Bone]

3. In contrast to 2, your proposed night actions do come with a scum motive, as I laid out in post 848, and more generally the idea of not using the tracker to try and catch scum killing beggars belief.

Aren't his idea was to use Track on T-Bone and No-Protect?

correct, this is "not using the tracker to try and catch scum" i.e. not using the tracker in a way where it can potentially result in a guilty-investigation.

Correct, tracking me would not result in a guilty-investigation, but it might have confirmed me as town. Glad you agree.

You may start to see why this was a problem for BM.

[T-Bone]

i'm not gonna read pages of town v town ego clashes.
Bm and Tbone are so effing town.
Could you guys agree to disagree and move on, vote Nono, and win the game?

Unfortunately you'll have to carry that mantle.

Either you or Enchant should hammer me. We'll lay out BM for all to see.

[T-Bone]

If T-Bone is Town:
Probably he acknowlidge, he in bad position from last day and can be mislynched. So his suggestion was to track him. If kill happened, it autoclears him. Would townie do that? Yeah, especially if T-Bone assumed if mafia skipped, they are idiots. So he probably sured mafia will kill someone, clear him and save us from some headache.

This was my exact thought process for the record. Maybe a little selfish of me, but I thought a confirmed town T-Bone would be good, and avoid the 'lol T-Bone and A50 were buddies' nonsense.

[Raya36]

If T-Bone is Mafia:
So he suddenly realise, he is alone now. And his suggestion is "No Kill and Track me". So he forcing self for no-kill state. For what? If he is tracked and no one died, it doesh't confirm him at all. Could be it just bluff?

This would give T-Bone some towncred even if it doesn't clear him

[T-Bone]

I mean my theory was if there was no-kill it guarantees scum in BM/Raya(/Bone from everyone else's perspective).

Which...I think that'll hold up well.

[T-Bone]

*If we tracked someone in the council, such as myself.

[Raya36]

It wouldn't though. Anyone can no kill

[Battle Mage]

V/LA until Monday night

[Nono]

It wouldn't though. Anyone can no kill

is truth

you’re assuming scum would have to kill, killing is essential etc, but WHY,, facts have been pointed out before, you’re ignoring them!!

to clarify, my earlier question was real: what is the game plan with killing? makes one confirmed town each day, usually scummy ones (bad)

HOW WILL YOU WIN, explain, or elaborate, please,, why is it better to kill, or have to kill (the question you need to answer)

at least recognize no killing is good, STOP LYING THAT IT’S BAD

[Nono]

So have we lynched Nono yet? Or are we running round in cirlces, chasing our tails, and inadvertantly... quoting Coldplay.Shit lol Tho that was one of their best tunes
Joking aside, that is a danger. I feel we have clear scum in our sites, can't we elim?
#Vote Nono

am not scum, never was

almost 100% sure now, giving myself up for lim, for t-bone today,, time for trust