Micro 1003: Divide and Conquer - Game Over!

[Infinity 324]

@skitt If pooky is scum this a panic room situation where there aren't really mislimmable townies and scum can't really do anything

[Vanderscamp]

What's panic room?

[Infinity 324]

A game where skitt rolled me as scum

[Infinity 324]

(I was scum)

[Bingle]

i'm also kinda getting an agenda-driven vibe from him tbh.

:thorface:

go on

You've said those exact words in literally every game you've played with town me, afaicr.

I have an agenda. That agenda is poking things with sticks until alignments fall out. Having an agenda is not inherently scummy, especially from me.

[skitter30]

i don't get why you think this because like... in theory if one of them is scum like, there's not really a lot of motivation much elsewhere that can get it going? like there's the scum in the 3p which... i think can't really do much without it being pretty overt right?

idk if im missing something simple but i dont think? in this game that scum can like... afford to do anything abt it to help their scumpartner if they wanted it? if that is tvs that is which, uh, idk, i don't think hectic is the scum in it personally :< (his frustration this game has made him all the more townier to me, honestly)

i still feel weird about pooky's replies, like something isn't clicking for me and maybe i'm tunneled but everytime i read his replies i feel like he's... idk... misrepping hectic a lil bit, even if it's not big things, but it just feels like he missed the fundamental beginning of why he was being voted and now it spiraled and yeah

a few things:
- i mean so you think that it's tvs and that the other scum is just sitting it out and avoiding the conflict and hoping that we get diverted by the shiny object that is like vander or nor or something? because that's what they'd have to be doing in that universe but there also isn't much traction for those either - like if they're hoping to let this die out by very steadily avoid fanning any flames i imagine that they'd be at least entertaining the notions of voting outside the 1v1. mena is like the main person who keeps trying to start other things tho and he's literally in that pt so he can't be scum with either of them and neither push that he's been making has been gaining traction. like are you positing that the scum in the pair is just keeping the argument going and the scum outside the pair is just watching it and ... not doing anything?
- i think that pooky is townier than hectic and i think he originally didn't fully understand what hectic is saying and now being right matters more to him than anything else.
- i know that you and hectic share a level of like ~soulread~ that i can't profess to even beginning to understand, so if you can elaborate a bit on why you think hectic is townie that would be helpful

[skitter30]

There's a bit to respond to there but it blows my mind how I could be considered flipbait and not pooky, given what each of us has said this game

i mean no offense! <3 but in this pl a lot of people know each other and are considered hard pushes and you are one of the people who are, like, not and i townread you so i think that i need to quash these as they come up cuz otherwise if you're town i'd bet good money that you're gonna end up as a misflip

this isn't an indictment on your play or anything so much as i think that compared to everyone else you're gonna be easier to get flipped
~

I guess the thing I most want to respond to is your thoughts on how the wagon formed.

Bingle said pooky was his top scum and voted him, but then immediately unvoted him when the wagon hit E-1.
Do you think that is inconsistent with them being partners? Because I expect scum to be fairly likely to have bussed early in this set given what everyone was saying, and I have trouble believing bingle believes the stuff he is saying about Pooky's responses to no case being valid.
Like, even in the world where I am super super wrong and pooky is town and no case is scum, pooky is obviously correct about no case's intentions, but even then there has been a bunch of what pooky has been saying about the situation that is still definitely not correct.

I also think infinity voted pooky only briefly, but I think infinity is town so I'm not as worried about this.


I'm also not sure why when the fact that momentum on both candidates has died down dramatically since the momentum has been increasing is a sign of it being town on town. Sure, if it was t vs s, mafia are sort of incentivized to push the t, but aren't they also incentivized to not solve it at all?
Why wouldn't they want to flip pooky (or no case) and make the other one (and me if pooky is flipped) look really bad?

wrt bingle i mean, like, ig but if pooky really is scum:
- he's gonna look super super super bad if pooky ever flips and there was a fair amt of momentum towards that happening
- to sort of compound that if scum his entire plan seems to be trying to find scum in the 6p. if he's partnered with pooky that means he's gone into this game having some sort of narrative for how he'd interact with scum-pooky and how he'd be pushing him; or to say it another way no matter who his partner is he's going to be having some sort of idea for how he'd interact with his partner. starting a wagon on a partner and then unvoting is just kind of inelegant and doesn't really match the narrative that scum-bingle would be trying to cultivate and quite honestly he's better than that

also if scum is likely to be bussing why would he even unvote >.>
wrt momentum dying see what i wrote to ydrasse above but, like, what do you think scum are doing rn ?

[skitter30]

@skitt If pooky is scum this a panic room situation where there aren't really mislimmable townies and scum can't really do anything

i mean i imagine that's the case irregardless of pooky's alignment given the pl

it's kinda like the normal a bunch of us just played too

[Infinity 324]

@skitt If pooky is scum this a panic room situation where there aren't really mislimmable townies and scum can't really do anything

i mean i imagine that's the case irregardless of pooky's alignment given the pl

it's kinda like the normal a bunch of us just played too

This is to answer your "what are scum doing?" question, they're not doing anything because they can't really. I mean if pooky is scum it's probably just you as the partner but yeah.

[skitter30]

i'm also kinda getting an agenda-driven vibe from him tbh.

:thorface:

go on

You've said those exact words in literally every game you've played with town me, afaicr.

I have an agenda. That agenda is poking things with sticks until alignments fall out. Having an agenda is not inherently scummy, especially from me.

(uh i don't remember saying these exact words or accusing you of this before >.>)

ok but this game started with a n0 and presumably scum had some sort of plan in mind when choosing the split. like by very nature of hte setup either you or infinity came into this day with some sort of expectation for what the fallout of the hoods would be, and would be playing around that. that's why i found infinity's entrance to be scummy, because it looked like it was coming from some pre-conceived notions for the implications of teh hoods.

like you know that scumtell where someone weird dies and the next day someone comes in and goes 'oh they died obviously because of X?' when it's not at all obvious and it kinda belies that they had some input/insight on why the person died? this is sort of the same thing. scum inherently have some sort of narrative or explanation in place for why the hood placements are what they are, and will be kinda firm and consistent in pushing those narratives, and i imagine that it will be shaping how they're approaching the day / phase / gamestate / other pt. i'm trying to find the people who are viewing the game that way, and yes, in this context entering the game with a strong narrative for why the hoods are the way they are and using that to push people is scum indicative imo

[skitter30]

@skitt If pooky is scum this a panic room situation where there aren't really mislimmable townies and scum can't really do anything

i mean i imagine that's the case irregardless of pooky's alignment given the pl

it's kinda like the normal a bunch of us just played too

This is to answer your "what are scum doing?" question, they're not doing anything because they can't really. I mean if pooky is scum it's probably just you as the partner but yeah.

i mean i imagine they're not just literally sitting there and just letting everything happen?
and i wish i was scum with pooky but alas that has never been a thing yet <3

[Menalque]

You've said those exact words in literally every game you've played with town me, afaicr.

Fun fact: I’m p sure skitt picked up occasionally saying “go on” from me, because I started saying it a lot after seeing her use “do tell” in many of her games

[Menalque]

Oh wait you mean she says you have an agenda driven vibe every game LMAO ignore me

[Menalque]

I think norwee is probably town

Me, ydra, norwee

Idk if I’m TRing ydra for like ~great reasons~ but there it is

So fmpov scum is in (no face, pooky, vanders) most likely

Pooky — if scum, most likely scum with skitter, then bingle, then infinity?

No face — if scum, most likely with bingle(?), then infinity, then skitt

Vanders — if scum, most likely with skitter, then bingle, then infinity

[NorwegianboyEE]

Btw Pook, i didn’t read up to now so i don’t know if you’ve changed your stance over the course of today. But do you think you would still have scumread No Face if his PoE reads singled out someone else other than you? Or is it largely based on you thinking you should be read as town up to that point?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

norwee do you not think I'm like incapable of figuring out whether the person pushing me is scum or town?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Hey now, i’m just considering if maybe Teddy Bears are a bit more developmentally stunted when compared to hunmans. I meant no harm with it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Like I only have so much patience for this game dude.

Like we literally went through this exact same thing the last time we played.

Fark-scum pushes for my elim on D1, I identify him correctly as scum I push for his elim, nobody listens to me...

Even after he shot me dead at night, you were still on his side.

Like how do I get through to you ?

I don't want to write 600 posts in d1 and get ignored. It's not worth it for me.

It's exhausting. I don't need the aggravation from a game I play for fun dude.

Is it just me ? Am I that not understandable for you?

[Vanderscamp]

There's a bit to respond to there but it blows my mind how I could be considered flipbait and not pooky, given what each of us has said this game

i mean no offense! <3 but in this pl a lot of people know each other and are considered hard pushes and you are one of the people who are, like, not and i townread you so i think that i need to quash these as they come up cuz otherwise if you're town i'd bet good money that you're gonna end up as a misflip

this isn't an indictment on your play or anything so much as i think that compared to everyone else you're gonna be easier to get flipped
~

I guess the thing I most want to respond to is your thoughts on how the wagon formed.

Bingle said pooky was his top scum and voted him, but then immediately unvoted him when the wagon hit E-1.
Do you think that is inconsistent with them being partners? Because I expect scum to be fairly likely to have bussed early in this set given what everyone was saying, and I have trouble believing bingle believes the stuff he is saying about Pooky's responses to no case being valid.
Like, even in the world where I am super super wrong and pooky is town and no case is scum, pooky is obviously correct about no case's intentions, but even then there has been a bunch of what pooky has been saying about the situation that is still definitely not correct.

I also think infinity voted pooky only briefly, but I think infinity is town so I'm not as worried about this.


I'm also not sure why when the fact that momentum on both candidates has died down dramatically since the momentum has been increasing is a sign of it being town on town. Sure, if it was t vs s, mafia are sort of incentivized to push the t, but aren't they also incentivized to not solve it at all?
Why wouldn't they want to flip pooky (or no case) and make the other one (and me if pooky is flipped) look really bad?

wrt bingle i mean, like, ig but if pooky really is scum:
- he's gonna look super super super bad if pooky ever flips and there was a fair amt of momentum towards that happening
- to sort of compound that if scum his entire plan seems to be trying to find scum in the 6p. if he's partnered with pooky that means he's gone into this game having some sort of narrative for how he'd interact with scum-pooky and how he'd be pushing him; or to say it another way no matter who his partner is he's going to be having some sort of idea for how he'd interact with his partner. starting a wagon on a partner and then unvoting is just kind of inelegant and doesn't really match the narrative that scum-bingle would be trying to cultivate and quite honestly he's better than that

also if scum is likely to be bussing why would he even unvote >.>
wrt momentum dying see what i wrote to ydrasse above but, like, what do you think scum are doing rn ?

My guess if bingle and pooky are scum, which is the most likely team for me atm, is that bingle planned to bus pooky, didn't expect pooky to react so poorly and was genuinely afraid that pooky would be killed and the game would be over, so he felt the need to unvote and take a neutral stance to not be obvious either way.

It's not like he went super hard against pooky earlier, he just called him his top scum and then voted on him.
I think it's very conceivable that he expected pooky to flip at some point this game and was planning on pointing to that interaction as something that would exclude them from being partners (and if this is the case, I think it's pretty clear that it would very likely have been successful, even with his unvote it is still an uphill battle to convince people that it's a viable team)



What do I think scum is doing right now?
I don't know, if either pooky or no case is mafia I would not expect scum to be hard pushing or hard defending either the town or scum in that scenario, for fairly clear reasons, I would expect them to be waffling and showing no real interest in solving it, and you and bingle, who are my top two scum reads in the small pool, are both doing that.

I'm not saying that the interaction between pooky and no case is obviously t vs s or anything but I think if anything it points that way and certainly not the reverse.
There doesn't seem to be any scum in the 6p pool who is capitalising on this t vs t fight, the only people who really qualify are myself and yd, who I think are the two most likely town people in the big pool.


Additionally I don't care as much about any of this as I do about just reading what no case and pooky have to say.
I think Pooky is very obviously suspicious and unless it's super obvious that this is t vs t somehow, which it isn't to me, that outweighs the semi-wifom about how evils are going to interact with each other.

[Vanderscamp]

Btw Pook, i didn’t read up to now so i don’t know if you’ve changed your stance over the course of today. But do you think you would still have scumread No Face if his PoE reads singled out someone else other than you? Or is it largely based on you thinking you should be read as town up to that point?

This was a good question and I'm sad pooky didn't really answer it.

[NorwegianboyEE]

@mena: i haven't the foggiest idea what the thought process was behind the 3p and i can't imagine why i'd make this group either. i also will not vote vander today and i dont know why you're scumreading him. he's literally flipbait and doesn't really have a scumpartner imo

Please explain what makes him flipbait, and also why he’s unlikely to have a partner. Both you and Bingle have been defending him and calling him town for less than stellar reasons from my POV.

[NorwegianboyEE]

i mean no offense! <3 but in this pl a lot of people know each other and are considered hard pushes and you are one of the people who are, like, not and i townread you so i think that i need to quash these as they come up cuz otherwise if you're town i'd bet good money that you're gonna end up as a misflip

Is this why you think Vander is flipbait? Because i’ve played one game with him, and an certain amount of other players seem to have done the same.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Like how do I get through to you ?

I mean, i get your frustration in not being able to convince me if you’re town here and certain you’re right. But i’m not the type of player that get’s convinced by the exact same argument repeated over and over again. You’re going to have to find another way if you’re that certain No Face is scum.

[No Face]

Going thru the votes/players on it:
Nor - dont remember his vote or like anything he's said

I wasn't on it.

oh maybe that's why i don't remember your vote then :lol:
who was the other vote

ydrasse jingle no face infinty (e1) vander (e1)

or was infinity only e2 and i'm misremembering it as two e1 votes
i feel like someone unvoted in between

This isn't the first time skitter's tried to recall votes that she could easily look up by ISOing the mod. Being lost is one thing, but this feels like she may be playing that up? ;,;

[Vanderscamp]

i mean no offense! <3 but in this pl a lot of people know each other and are considered hard pushes and you are one of the people who are, like, not and i townread you so i think that i need to quash these as they come up cuz otherwise if you're town i'd bet good money that you're gonna end up as a misflip

Is this why you think Vander is flipbait? Because i’ve played one game with him, and an certain amount of other players seem to have done the same.

I don't really disagree!

If we're both here, do you want to talk more about why you think I'm suspicious?