Mini 2206 - Deja Vu: Perpetual MELO IV - END!

[The Bulge]

I'll catch up on the last few pages when I have the time

[The Bulge]

UNVOTE:

whew

[Nachomamma8]

VFT has mainly been catching my attention in their relationship with nacho. my earliest impression of this was with 15, where I felt skitter was extrapolating a lot of discussion points out of nacho from one very brief post. this is arguably the post that really kicks the not_mafia discussion off in the direction it persisted (nacho's and kismet's earlier comments lack the same depth) so it's stuck with me in all my reading, especially with my theory in mind of scum taking advantage of their unique opportunity in this setup to take a near-majority control of the discussion. I had a gut feeling at first that this could be partner-indicative, but lilith taking a completely different approach in her assessment of the slot in 101 makes me think otherwise. Nacho had a good point in 211, the idea that he'd dedicate the entirety of his scumgame to yeeting not_mafia and then dip is ridiculous, and the response bottom of 303 doesn't make sense to me? Kismet's post was specifically about scum winning an all-in 1v1 and then self-yeeting to avoid any fallout. Why reach out (in 75) over such a superficial connection if skitter's only concern was about tunneling? nothing else stands out to me on its own, save a couple posts where I thought "huh weird", but nothing I think is ultimately alignment indicative, and overall their play isn't overtly townie but I think I feel alright about this slot.

Hmmm. I don't disagree with the things you point out here but they tend to trend more towards a scumread on VFT as opposed to a townread. Why are you townreading VFT? Is it simply because the things you talk about here are the only things that bother you about the slot and this isn't enough to equal a scumread?

[Infinity 324]

You haven't had to sort me before yeah? All my reads are gut reads, when I give a reason for a read it's usually a poor attempt to explain my gut

You mentioned some stuff about site meta and theory which I said because I like talking about site meta and theory and weren't very relevant to the game

"It doesn't look like that was correct" was because I assume people don't lie about their playstyle since it's verifiable

Whether people enjoy an alignment can take months to change, afaik skitt hasn't been enjoying scum for a while

[Infinity 324]

Why did you think 97 or 230 could be AI at all?

[Infinity 324]

I think bulge's observation about my posting is actually a good one, though he picks on very odd things to think are AI and that worries me

[Nachomamma8]

Infinity

seems to be universally townread and I don't recall a reason given aside from meta, which I don't recall even being elaborated upon. nothing she's done has impressed me so if anyone is townreading her off the strength of her content in this game I would like to see some specific quotes and explanations pls, I feel like people are acting like it should just be obvious. One problem I have with infinity is how she assigns her reads. a lot of them read to me like she's already decided where on her list a slot would be best placed, and is justifying that after the fact. for example she calls nacho scummy in 99, but says she's a sucker for how he asked her directly about her read. shortly after, she says "someone scumpost", implying no scumreads. this example is early enough that on its own strength, I'd probably ignore it. but compare to posts like 229, 400, 532, 618. it's subtle, but I think 480 can help illustrate what Im saying even though I don't think it's necessarily a good example. it's like, how are you deciding the difference between what's Scum acting Townie, and what's Town being Scummy. obviously this is just a part of scumhunting, but it feels to me like infinity's process misses a step. most of the reasons she gives are "town/scum often do this" or "this person does this as town/scum", but it feels like she gets to decide when her own theory/meta statements actually apply. There's nothing tying the conclusions to the concessions madein those posts I linked, or explaining why those reasons didn't ultimately factor into the final read. she's given a couple excuses, mostly early on, as to why her reads might be off this game, and on top of all that, a few odd posts stand out to me on their own. 97 is weird because if she agrees with what kismet is saying, how is the comment about site meta at all relevant? 230 is also pointless, not to mention categorically false ("idk how scum think" is such a bizarre thing to say!!!). 454 is insane and has to be fake, what do you mean you don't believe skitter's mood would have changed since "just a few days ago"????? 645 looks like TMI on vft, how can you say "it doesn't look like that was correct"? yea not the scummiest slot in the whole world but it's super weird everyone is townbinning her, and she has been one of the slots giving me the most consistent pings.

I agree that Infinity is deciding reads first and then deciding after the fact (and has pretty shallow reasoning as a result) for the most part, but I think that has more to do with personality than alignment. You can see pretty easily from skimming her other games that she's a "gut first" type of player, but I'd expect you to realize this based on her posting style alone. Your attack on #99 is inaccurate - saying "someone scumpost" doesn't imply that you have 0 scumreads necessarily, just that you have too many townreads.

The other posts you call out individually are weird and or wrong but I don't think that any of them are alignment indicative. It's weird looking at this read next to the read on VFT - with VFT you're able to differentiate between "weird" and "scummy" while in this read you seem incapable of it.

[Nachomamma8]

Large / Grand The presentation of 109 is awkward; the wording is contrived as hell, and that it's not addressed to any specific head feels intentionally vague. at its core it feels like a question purely for scum info, like preparation for some kind of posturing. Mistyx's willingness to draw attention to beeboy's absence early on is easily WIFOM. she slips up in 221 pretty hard though, why would beeboy specify to his hydra partner that he'd actually play this game except after receiving a red PM? the slot's first move doesn't really come til 253, which is weak and feels opportunistic. 593 and anything in between shows no evolution of the cakez read at all, only arbitrarily stating it's growing stronger, but there is no effort to figure out the slot or engage meaningfully, they're just saying words. The associatives I'm seeing between this slot and infinity are strengthened by beeboy's 523, which talks about those 2 Infinity posts as if they directly pertain to the game rather than the general theory posts they are. beeboy's content is obviously all filler, blatantly avoiding any meaningful contact with the game, and mistyx's attitude towards him doesn't feel like town frustration at all.

Agree 100% - criticizing the VFT question and talking about the Cakez read and beeboy avoiding meaningful contact with the game is the core of my case against them.

I just don't understand why you're voting notscience and not these two.

[Nachomamma8]

Disaster Cartel is a huge concern for me because mena's early posts are riddled with weakass logic and fake emotion, and then he just dipped from the game. 151 acts like it's relevant to this game, when that entire huff about NM is, imo, nothing but mena taking advantage of recency bias to try to push an NM elim thru. He's managed to drag past AtE from completed games into this one to justify this early push (this becomes especially apparent by 161, though the whole push is dripping with this weird misplaced aggressive energy), and somehow you lot are letting it slide? 167 is a mind-bogglingly atrocious strategy, and absolute shit logic in a 5v7. I'm sure Mena is a better player than that. I think it was a perspective slip. overall, mena's posting feels slimey (for example, check the weakass shade thrown at kismet in 198), and ydra feels like she's had her hand held (probably by both town and scum tbh) up to the point of comfort she's at now. Need more from mena but I don't like basically anything this slot has proposed.

Don't love this case. Accusing Mena of using recency bias in order to push through an NM lynch instead of just assuming Mena is pushing through an NM policy lynch for the same reasons he did in a recent game is a case of mental gymnastics to reach the DC!scum goal. I don't disagree that the kismet shade sucks and I don't disagree that the rest of the stuff the slot did is uninspiring at best.

[Nachomamma8]

TO DO:
-read nacho v vft
-prompt for more hand-holding re:infinity UTR
-look closer at cakez's body of work, maybe compare to past games where I misread him


remind me to stop promising effort like that lol

think the best use of your time is just hanging around in thread more. if you are town and you can make yourself unlynchable then that might be the difference between a win and a loss whereas i don't think you'll get there by rereading past games where you misread cakez, although it is a nice thought.

[Infinity 324]

("idk how scum think" is such a bizarre thing to say!!!). 454 is insane and has to be fake, what do you mean you don't believe skitter's mood would have changed since "just a few days ago"?????

I was thinking that acting really baffled about a townie's play might be scummy, because town tends to resort to "sometimes town just act weird" or "ok you're just scum" depending on your philosophy. Not sure though.

[Infinity 324]

Bulge why didn't you ask a clarifying question about the skitt read? Or try to take into account the context (skitt's overall enjoyment of playing scum lately)?

[notscience]

notscience hasn't made a huge splash in the game so far, but I would probably be suspicious if he was putting himself front and centre trying to keep a hold on the reins of the game. most of what he's done so far is reach out to familiar players, and present theories and takes as non-sequiturs, all par for the course. I'm not a big fan of his nacho case. I think town notty would be more likely to want to assume a more assertive role in the town, but that could be affected by playerlist. I think with fewer players who know him, notty would feel more comfortable and free to break from his usual posting style. most of what he's done so far is give reads and push suspicions. I don't like the way he throws his vote around. I would expect town notty to be a little more meek in a way. he hasn't done much apart from replying to direct questions, and asking his own, but he only follows up in the moment and rarely comes back to past conversations. however, I do appreciate the consistency with which he maintains his lines of questioning ever after a lilt in discussion. The wall on nacho is pretty convincing. notty hasn't done anything this game except throw down votes and vibe with his friends. If he were scum I think he'd see an opportunity in this setup to take more control of the game's trajectory. I don't think we need to worry about this slot, but I have my eye on him.

Which Nacho case in specific? I've had some throwaway thoughts here and there but don't have an outright case. What don't you like about them? I also don't get how you go from "I don't like his nacho case" to "his wall on nacho is very convincing" in the span of a paragraph.

Why would town me want to be more assertive in this game? What games *have* I been in the assertive role from the getgo on day 1?

What don't you like about how I've thrown my vote around? I've voted three people- You in RVS, Nacho, and Mara recently. Two serious votes, typically I think my vote is more fluid? As for not following up on past conversations, yeah, I don't have as much reread time (would have done it today but I spent my day writing an essay) but meh.

[Kismet]

bulge just looks utterly nothing like illicit bulge so far.

i'm not saying he's definitely scum for that, but he's not getting into the thick of it with anyone, or being cheeky, or, as infinity says, asking clarifying questions to establish context, which was an absolutely hallmark of his play in illicit.

just sterilized analysis

[notscience]

His read on me is fucking weird

It's also coming out way too early and I feel like that's more likely from scum trying to be unpredictable than town genuinely holding his cards close to the chest. I also don't like how he criticizes me for something then says he likes it, and I feel like while, yes, I have been shooting the shit with the usual suspects I have had a fair interactions with all the top posters sans Infinity and Mena and have tried to engage all of the lurkers. This feels like a weird mischaracterization of what's happened.

I also don't get why he thinks this is a game I would assume a leadership role given how Tenet shaped up, I burned a fair amount of credibility there. I didn't assume any control over Legends until Day 4 after it was clear town was going to shit if I didn't. So him assuming I would take a leadership role at all in this setup is weird. It almost feels like he's trying to come up with reasons to fit the slot he wants me in.

[Kismet]

honestly the more i reread it it just looks like a scumcatchup

none of the conclusions have really been given their due diligence. a lot of "hasn't really giving me a of alignment indicative stuff buuuuuuuut gonna let em slide" should read as town "hasn't really given a lot of alignment indicative stuff

and i'm fucking worried about it

" esp considering strength of townreads (not strong except for me maybe?)

don't know what the point on nacho is about being/not being part of the solve and i think if that were salient he'd have more to say about it in relation to his other reads.

The infinity points look a little obtuse, esp wrt 454 and 645

[notscience]

He doesnt even take a stance on you lmao

[Kismet]

i'm charitably reading not having anything bad to say about me as an endorsement

[Kismet]

also i feel like the beeboy stuff is overblown by everybody.

beeboy hasn't been really present on site in a bit, isn't active outside of this game right now, and there could be a fucking myriad of other reasons for that.

[Disaster Cartel]

sorry, presence spotty bc of irl things, am here a little bit if anyone wants to chat but idk about what right now

- ydra

[Kismet]

read bulge catchup and tell me what you think please.

[The Bulge]

lmao

[The Bulge]

notty read your bit again

[The Bulge]

playing d&d rn and I can't focus on two things at once, but yea I can be here for quick chats

[The Bulge]

He doesnt even take a stance on you lmao

i'm charitably reading not having anything bad to say about me as an endorsement

I already made it very clear that kismet is strongtown.