Mini 2206 - Deja Vu: Perpetual MELO IV - END!

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 1-16

Nachomamma8

(3): Venus Fly Trap, Infinity 324, Kismet

Leafeon and Glaceon

(2): Disaster Cartel, Nachomamma8

Momrangal

(2): notscience, SirCakez

SirCakez

(1): Leafeon and Glaceon

notscience

(1): The Bulge

Not_Mafia

(1): Not_Mafia

Disaster Cartel

(1): Salsabil Faria

Not Voting

(1): Momrangal

Deadline: April 26, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2021-04-25 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

Salsabil Farai is v/la until April 16
skitter head of Venus Fly Trap v/la April 16-17
-

[Disaster Cartel]

im about to change our avatar to something i would use for myself bc this is my city now

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

In xeno he was stamping his feet throughout day one as Cabd managed to amass a wagon on him without a case. I think it was more over the top ans aggressive compared to the understated nature here, if that makes sense. The delicacy of the frustration made me lean town.

Do I think it’s fake able? Potentially. Do I think this is the game? Not really.

Ninja-
Was for ydra

A bit concerned about mena’s disappearance but understand real life is a thing. Was very meh about his townread on me and feels like he just got that intro “townread notsci and he’ll ignore you” from a buddy

hmm, maybe, ill skim those games maybe but i feel like the circumstances are different where im wary to just embrace it without playing w him which is how i get the Feels for people. skimming/reading old games doesnt do too much for me but i still like to give it a shot

i havent a clue what he was thinking about/reading through the last time he was around so i cant tell you much tbh

- ydra

[notscience]

Wasn’t expecting you to! Just stating what my concerns wrt you guys are. You had relatively fair answers and I’m not expecting you to take my word as gospel, I’m just saying why I think Cakez leans more to the town side of the spectrum and I won’t be voting there.

[Disaster Cartel]

yeah, i feel it, just a difference but it Be like that, im not interested in voting cakez regardless and im honestly just fine keeping my vote on lg and seeing what happens

- ydra

[Nachomamma8]

i keep getting exciting to seeing you in a brand new avatar and i keep getting disappointed

[Disaster Cartel]

oh god now im under PRESSURE

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

no, no, i will stay strong and believe he will return and until then i rest upon my widows watch

- ydra

[Nachomamma8]

Currently here.

Town [S-->W] Kismet, Notscience, [Gap], Cakez, Infinity, [Gap], VFT, [Big Gap], Salsa
Scum [S-->W] L&G, The Bulge, Mom [Gap], Not_Mafia, [Gap] Disaster

Kismet

: First of all, I think that Bork if scum here is much more reluctant to out than Bork as town. Bork as town has some high expectations to meet and while his scumgame is bad it's not good enough to rise above them so I don't think he'd put that burden on himself if he could avoid it and he most certainly could have here. He has some genuine excitement in working with people such as the reach out to skitter in 76 or the "I think we might all be town" in 117 that I don't think he'd think to fake as scum here. He has good nuance in his reads (example here) and he generally puts in genuine work to detangle arguments such as in 236 or his "at bat" theory for why he disagreed with the NM policy. These are things that can be faked in his scumgame but them happening this early and often is out of his range. The way that he sorts me - from range of emotions to reasoning - is simply not something that he's able to fake as scum - playing scum is emotionally taxing for him in general and so if he's pushing me with such sustained aggression (whiplash like 379 to 382, "I'm just trying to work with you here), then I need to drive over to him and buy him a pizza and a beer and get to know him better because he will be a completely changed person.

Notscience

: I believe that Notscience left his scum range a long time ago but it's not to the same scale of Bork. If notscience is scum here then he's playing the best game of his life but I'm expecting him to have a game like this eventually due to the strides he's made since I played with him last. That being said, I do think he'll get to the bork level given time and I do think there's a lot of great stuff in his ISO thus far. Posts like this one where he shows a decently high level of awareness of gamestate are +town but obviously still fakeable. I think the way that he operates around Bulge is very +town; from my experience, notscience as town gives good "walk softly but carry a big stick" vibes that he doesn't live up to as scum. His big wallpost in 685 vs me is something that is solidly outside of his scum range; I think notsci as scum would be very hesitant in going all out vs me in general but going all out and then arguing that I'm scum bussing all my buddies is something that's too ballsy for him. Stuff like the "what's my biggest weakness as town?" game here and using that answer in order to leverage the case against me is stuff that I just can't see him doing as scum and stuff like him backing off the read on me while still calling me scum - it's nuance to the push I don't think he's capable of yet.

SirCakez:

Cakez is someone who goes to blue immediately if L&G and Mom both flip red like I expect they will. SirCakez is L&G's main push and also someone Mom seems most interested in. I believe there's one scum max in my pushers (bork, notsci, Infinity, VFT) because I think that scum are hesitant for me to blow up their spot before I go down. I don't believe that L&G nor Mom are the bussing types in the first place and feel it would be an extremely strange strategy for both of them so try to kill him right off the bat - I expect their to be some bussing in this setup but the only circumstance where I could see both of them bussing Cakez in the way that they have is one where they're bussing and expecting to die early so Cakez can carry for the long haul which is kind of ridiculous. Cakez's opening looks like all Cakez openings tend to look to me but the spot where he differentiates himself is in his reaction to the main push on him - 337 is a far cry from Xeno!Cakez who did nothing wrong. I don't think Cakez backs off me period, much less starts to townread me with the amount of anti-Nacho sentiment in the air; Cakez has a good excuse to just stay on my wagon and ride it all the way home. He's attacked a wide berth of people early and seems uninterested in making friends, from me to DC to L&G. Playing devil's advocate here and taking my side in the way that he has when there's a strong wave against me is a highly unlikely approach for him as scum; don't think scum would want to do anything to derail my wagon at this point even if I don't think they're going to get super into pushing it.

Infinity:

Part of my read on Infinity is meta - I think as town she is more devil-may-care (best exemplified by her saying "gut is the reason for the read, everything else is back justification" here whereas as scum she takes more time to explain her positions and take reasonable positions. She's also uncomfortable pushing townies as scum as she talked about in this game and I think that her push on me is outside of her scumrange - not to the notsci and Bork levels because I don't know her as well - but would be p impressed if this is all fake, namely stuff like this where she questions her read on me mid-push or here where she talks about her early scumreads being good and not wanting to back off on one of them. Infinity goes to blue if Bulge flips scum - I don't think that he goes all out on chipping away at the townreads at her in any world at all. The way her townread on L&G unfolded seemed incredibly genuine even if I vehemently disagree with it - questions like this one show she's trying to figure out alignments and I don't really see worlds where she's either A) defending possible mislynch L&G when I doubt their mislynch pool is that large at this point or B) protecting her partner who is objectively playing badly.

Venus Fly Trap:

The big piece that resonates with me as solidly town from them is the frustration expressed by Skitter in 814; we'd been going back and forth for a while at this point and her talk with me around moving the goalposts specifically around my read on her felt quite genuine. I think that this criticism of notsci's towngame, while genuine, probably doesn't happen if skitter is scum here. I do feel their interactions calling out to Mena are pretty genuine and don't seem very partnery - was a concern of mine when I thought she was writing their slot off for bad reasons based on the frustration stuff but don't have that concern now. It's a bit of an odd read to make when I don't really know her/Mena's relationship, I do think that Mena as scum would probably be more engaged if skitter was his partner here. While I don't like that so much of her content is centered around me and would feel better about the slot if there was more stuff talking about why they don't like L&G or Bulge, I don't think that their play makes sense from a scum agenda; they need more mislynches than just me and unless they plan on going me --> N_M --> Salsa then I don't see a path to victory but if there are town in L&G, Bulge, Mom, then I'm back to being concerned about this slot.

Salsa:

I am very excited for Salsa to get back because I don't feel she will be a hard read at all, will just be nice to get some more information to confirm/deny those initial thoughts. The attack on Bork early here is that type of paranoid grasping of straws that basically never comes from scum (hence why I'm still townreading her here) - find that scum are usually pretty cautious in their early games especially so going that deep down the rabbit hole that early is ++town for me. This response to me was very calm and measured whereas as scum I expect she might try for a more indignant tone (based on her scumgame that Kismet linked). Also liked her "you can finally see my towniness!" here, disagree with bork that it was like his response to ffery - this is just a townie who's happy that she's being seen. Unfortunately, my more rational side points out that this just isn't enough posting to bank a strong townread on so I'm patiently waiting for more salsa posting before I go completely overboard with this one.

Disaster Cartel:

I'm at the point where I really hope that we're not in the position it's 2-2 and we have to find scum #5 but this would probably be the best bet. I didn't like Mena's early approach to me in 508 - the idea that I should have been townreading him because we had some similar reads and he voted L&G before me is an easy reason to townread me. I also don't like how he votes L&G - he votes them and then talks about how scum won't bus in this setup and is sure to point out that he voted them before me, as if he's trying to get townread for a correct vote. I don't like his approach to Kismet when Kismet suspects him - his argument that Kismet is scumreading him because he wasn't townreading Kismet here is strange (I could maaaybe understand if Mena was scumreading Kismet before this point, but he wasn't), and I think that his read not being affected at all by the bork reveal is unnatural. His reads overall aren't very well fleshed out despite him seeming to have a decent amount of time to flesh them out.

I like and appreciate ydra's approach to me and want to say that it's more than likely to be coming from town, but part of me thinks that the reason they are townreading me is simply because they feel bad for me regardless of alignment >.>. I don't really have any issues with their side of the hydra - I think Bulge's assessment that they feel like they've needed to be dragged into the thread most days is accurate but I don't think that's necessarily scummy although I do get the feeling once they get engaged they will be a hell of a lot easier to read.

Not_Mafia:

Nothing to say here really. Thinking he's scum simply by virtue of how many people are obviously town. Think he's still a prime candidate for getting safehoused early - notsci brought up a decent point that scumteam might try to use him to get away with more quickhammers but it's pretty hard to get notmafia to follow a plan as scum so I don't think that's happening to here.

Momrangal:

Like I said earlier, was pretty excited to play with Mom's town version but this just isn't it. She moves to indignant the second that Cakez starts to push her but her read on him doesn't move beyond "pushing low ballers" which she says often enough that it almost becomes a meme. She offers multiple times to talk with people to get engaged with the game but just... doesn't and am fairly confident she would have found something meaningful to contribute by now. Her interactions with me are very odd - asking infinity what she thinks about me going after low ballers and then saying that she knows I've done more than go after low ballers then doing nothing with it is just not a townie thought process at all.

The Bulge:

I don't believe Bulge's read on Infinity in the least bit. I think that the thrust of his read in the big wall focuses on things that are mainly just playstyle and I think that Bulge as town would recognize this. I hate that he's put the work that he is to tie Infinity to L&G and don't understand why this one bad townread equals them partners (especially in a game where L&G is likely to get flipped early and Infinity is... not) and I hate that he currently isn't voting either of them. Bork calling it "sterilized analysis" is right on the money - this is especially emphasized in his big wall when talking about someone like VFT where he points out a bunch of reasons he dislikes them or calls them town or his read on notsci which just reads as all sorts of uncomfortable. Also agree that the role he's played in the game so far is one as a distant observer - one of the reasons him basically not voting right now is that he has strong scumreads and he knows there are a lot of scum to catch but in no way does it feel like he's trying to get the mix of things or advance a town agenda; it just seems like he's working to survive until I get mislynched.

Leafeon & Glaceon

I understand that beeboy has been busy lately so him being gone is something that should be expected. I understand that beeboy is capable of posting as scum and capable of lurking as scum. But his preference for being scum is well-documented, and his hydra partner having to publicly drag beeboy into thread and then when he does get there him ending up waxing poetic about whether reads lists benefit town or scum more doesn't exactly scream "I got my preferred alignment" and people seeing otherwise is honestly baffling to me. Leaf's side has been just as bad, from asking someone who they would lim after they just talked about who they were scumreading here to a cakez push that is both shallow (yes I realize I agreed with it initially but I was deep in the Cakez-scum throes) and static.

[Venus Fly Trap]

just popping in before I pass out. as before, please @ me if there’s specific stuff I need to respond to. I skimmed some but have not read the longer posts in depth. feeling like the wagons shifting away from nacho even though bork (who I think is pretty UTR) is/was voting for nacho is suspicious/noteworthy, but I’m not really sure what implications that has yet. also planning on reading nacho’s walls and back and forth with kismet but it won’t be before the weekend.

I want bulge to be town because it felt like we were mindmelding last night on infinity and lfg as far as I could tell though, that didn’t even merit a mention in bulge’s read on our slot - which in retrospect makes it seem like he was using me as a springboard to push infinity/l&g and that we weren’t mindmelding at all, because that’s usually a very prevalent part of my read on someone

goodbye for now. will try to check in again asap but don’t know when, I’m hoping hell season ends soon

- lilith

[Not_Mafia]

43 pages

[Leafeon and Glaceon]

hi, i guess

i have not been in the mental state to play this game for a good three days now and my hydra partner has not been doing anything except for the bare minimum when i poke him

i kinda skimmed thread but i am not at all motivated to play

ama though

~leaf

[Disaster Cartel]

why are you not scum?

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

also

@salsa: i know you’re having health issues that are leaving you v/la but is there any reason you’ve been active on site everywhere but here over the past few days?

[Leafeon and Glaceon]

why are you not scum?

- ydra

my role pm is green?

idk what you want me to say

~leaf

[Leafeon and Glaceon]

i think infinity is town

i think nm actively avoiding creating content and catching zero heat for it makes him very likely scum

~leaf

[Salsabil Faria]

Page 1-12

Hi!

I've never played this setup

1st thing 1st, I need to clear my comment 44 on this (so embarrassing ). When you said you never played in this setup, I thought you're talking about

Mini Theme Game setup

, but I realize later after reading

Nachomamma8

's 210 that by

setup

you meant

Perpetual MELO IV

setup, not the general Coney Island setup (double embarrassment ). Sorry about that.

And, I'm intentionally skipping

eliminate

Not_Mafia

at Day 1 or not

debate cause it gave me a headache when I was there, it's still giving me a headache while reading the posts again. If anyone needs to know my thought about the issue, I'll read the posts later and give my opinion if only it is needed.

hey vft

if you had to vote someone right now and that would decide the elim for today, who would you vote?

~leaf

What did you accomplish from this question on page #5?
[I got the answer later, nevermind.]

Eh, I don't like this vote.

y

Your vote here looks like as

Venus Fly Trap

don't want to eliminate/vote

Not_Mafia

, you take this as a challenge or you scumread him for that or both which was not clear to me. Then I start to read page #7 and it seems the vote is because of the meta, which also not enough to vote

Not_Mafia

fmpov.

Hello!

VOTE: Venus Fly Trap

The terrifying hydra...

Sorry Mod!

VOTE: venus fly trap
Cursed hydra

no

VOTE: NM

-Mena

Eh, I don't like this vote.

UNVOTE: Venus Fly Trap

VOTE: Disaster Cartel

no

VOTE: NM

-Mena

Eh, I don't like this vote.

UNVOTE: Venus Fly Trap

VOTE: Disaster Cartel

I will sheep this in lack of something better
still reading

VOTE: disaster cartel

This is getting creepy

I don't want to quote your wall posting

SirCakez

this far, hence mentioning the post(s):

245, 246: are actually pretty bad, totally passive. After called out by some players, you elaborate yours takes on 258 which I find more suspicious, cause I think if you're town, you would start from 258.

V/LA till 16th April due to health issue.

I'd be voting for this slot if it wasn't for this post ngl.
I find everything they are doing is just them existing and vibing rather than actually playing the game.

Which just reads like scum going through the motions waiting for something easy to grab onto.
I can elaborate in 4 days I guess.

Well, I'm sick + playing 3 different games here at the same time (another bad decision of my life) + was mad for one of these game-related issues (which I can't talk about) while I was playing.

DC I will get back to you in a little bit

V/LA till 16th April due to health issue.

I'd be voting for this slot if it wasn't for this post ngl.
I find everything they are doing is just them existing and vibing rather than actually playing the game.

Which just reads like scum going through the motions waiting for something easy to grab onto.
I can elaborate in 4 days I guess.

I highly disagree. I see a lot of town motivation in Salsa's play.

From nearly post nothing?? I really don't understand why town!you want to sheep me or scum!you want to pocket me. What's going on you head exactly?

Nacho reacted pretty much how I'd expect him to as scum here
town!Nacho would reach out before immediately diving for an attack I think

Gone over my head! Hence so far....

VOTE: SirCakez

Spoiler:

Feel better salsa

Feel better salsa

^^^^
This, I hope you're doing alright.

- Glaceon

@salsa hope you feel better

- lilith

[Salsabil Faria]

I'm deliberately going slow, sorry for that. Though I'm recovering, but don't want to pressure myself yet. Hope y'all understand.

[Salsabil Faria]

also

@salsa: i know you’re having health issues that are leaving you v/la but is there any reason you’ve been active on site everywhere but here over the past few days?

One game at a time.

[Salsabil Faria]

also

@salsa: i know you’re having health issues that are leaving you v/la but is there any reason you’ve been active on site everywhere but here over the past few days?

One game at a time.

And it's not few days. I came back to this site yesterday which is 15/4/20121 and today is 16/4/2021.

[Salsabil Faria]

Page 13-15

cabd. i think like unwnd > prism > maybe peta

i'm actually pretty flattered being compared w/ any of these really

Are you Titus?

As a side note I’m a bit confused why those pro-notmaf haven’t brought up that them killing him d1 (assuming he’s scum) would be super low info. It’s always about “CANT LET HIM ESCAPE”

Like I don’t get why the focus is on removing “weak links” rather than limiting how much information actually goes out?

i mean i brought this up way back when but tbh at this point by virtue of the fact that this has become such a divisive issue there would be information on his flip now so :shrug:

~ skitter

Infinity 324

also brought that up iirc.

Vote: SirCakez

I don't believe his scumread on his disaster and I don't believe his scumread on me. I'll get into it later when I have more time.

uh so these nacho and sircakez interactions are certainly A Thing

~ skitter

What did you mean? and why?

I think we're on the same page re:nacho and cakez!

About?

huh she actually has a wider range than i would have guessed, with decent tone + activity
but she's kinda trending towards short declaritive statements/questions and not as much like 'in the moment trying to sort out what she's thinking' if that makes sense. she's almost more definitive/assertive in this scumgame than in the towngame i saw her in.
i was kinda liking her before and still think beeboy's take is kinda bad and like the opposite from how she ought to be read but i'm not as confident as i was before

~ skitter

In which newbie game you played with me (you mentioned earlier in one of your posts that you recently played with me in a newbie game)?

because I can't track things as people are calling out and it's definitely throwing my reads off
too much on my mind these days

I kinda relate, gonna think about this more later.
In the meantime, hope your rl is good.

I'm liking

Nachomamma8

's 345; 347 seems okay too; 348 is also good, though the tunnel thing on

Not_Mafia

tells me take a step back but his reply for 284 makes me thinking differently. I've to read more from him to understand him properly; 349 also ok ig; I'm feeling naked after reading the 350 (I need to change my town/scum gameplay but really don't know how )

hello

i like vft more for skitter's posting on page 13

i don't like nm hopping in, going "oh yeah there's no way i get eliminated d1", then dipping out

~leaf

Did you ever played with

Not_Mafia

before?

As a side note I’m a bit confused why those pro-notmaf haven’t brought up that them killing him d1 (assuming he’s scum) would be super low info. It’s always about “CANT LET HIM ESCAPE”

Like I don’t get why the focus is on removing “weak links” rather than limiting how much information actually goes out?

Bc we get info either way, and this way we’re 1/3 of the way to winning instead of scum being 1/3 of the way to winning

And like, we still get standard info from scum making a NK?

I’m not seeing how the info gain is so bad that it’s not worth it if he’s scum

Great, you're tunneled too and the reason is meta also. It'll take more than meta to eliminate particularly anyone imo.

Instead of just shutting the fuck up, targeting elsewhere, and then going after NM for not doing anything and potentially having quickhammered in lylo

So, if I'm reading right, fyo, if we don't eliminate

Not_Mafia

on Day 1, he'll land straight on the lylo??

seems like someone who felt like they had to post "content" and threw something out

i mean basically

i signed up to hydra and my partner's barely been playing

so im kinda just coasting b/c im not motivated

~leaf

I'm thinking to join in a hydra for some time now, but I don't know/chat with people normally
Btw, I understand your situation but you can advance the game without your hydra partner.

Also, happy birthday!

Belated Happy Birthday

Infinity 324

[Kismet]

Nacho I am at least extremely heartened by the fact that if you are town are reads are so close together that I don't have a huge issue sheeping the majority of what you have.

[Kismet]

i think infinity is town

i think nm actively avoiding creating content and catching zero heat for it makes him very likely scum

~leaf

I'm increasingly sympathetic to this take but still, not right this second

[Kismet]

I'm feeling naked after reading the 350 (I need to change my town/scum gameplay but really don't know how )

gutwise reads very good to me

anyway glad to have you back salsa

[Salsabil Faria]

Page 16-19

Momrangal replaces Brave Heart Lion. Please welcome her!

Late welcome!

ok ok

i should proooobably talk to mena at some point about this game too but i wanna go in on my own first because i’m CLEARLY the better reader out of the two of us

- ydra

Lol!

VOTE: leafy and glacey

-Mena

Reason?

I would also love to hear thoughts on my point that I think scum are bus!disincentivised unless in a lot of trouble,
-Mena

I mean, don't scums normally want to buss their partner(s) if it's not necessary?

and the fact that there seems to be no appetite for NM is therefore +scum

Don't understand this part. Are you saying who are defending

Not_Mafia

here are scums. I don't agree.
FYI, I'm not particularly townreading

Not_Mafia

, he kind of always in my null list.

I would also love to hear thoughts on my point that I think scum are bus!disincentivised unless in a lot of trouble, and the fact that there seems to be no appetite for NM is therefore +scum

-Mena

I made that exact point in a post directed at skitter so. I agree with it.

The difference between you 2 is:

Disaster Cartel

seem to make up their mind to eliminate

Not_Mafia

at Day 1, where on the other hand, you're seemed to keep your option open. That's why I don't read as TvT you both atm.

Nacho looks relatively towny from an Objective StandpointTM but I don't have that many doubts about him being scum

I'll rephrase this, I have doubts about being scum but he's still >rand scum which is scummier than NM

Aren't

Disaster Cartel

doing the same thing as

Nachomamma8

?

I would also love to hear thoughts on my point that I think scum are bus!disincentivised unless in a lot of trouble, and the fact that there seems to be no appetite for NM is therefore +scum

I think it's a fundamentally weak point because it requires that scum came into the game in this headspace and you have no way of testing that assertion
it also relies partially on the alignments of the people pushing n_m so it's something to maybe come back to d2+ at best for me
and mostly....there's just no need to use this as a crutch in lieu of like....getting reads and shit like normal which i kiiiiiiinda feel you've been doing the whole game

Agreed.

Mena what are your reads?

Tentatively

Notsci — town
Nacho

VFT — lean town
Infinity

BHL — null
Salsa
NM
Bulge

Kismet — lean scum
Cakez
Leafy/glacey

This is without ydra’s input tho, we’ll try to get a unified list up when she’s around later

-Mena

I don't understand from your posts that why do you townread

notscience

but scumread

Kismet

?
Also don't like your vote on

Leafeon and Glaceon

. A very easy slot to push atp (I'm on page #19), especially after they said they're feeling less motivated because of their hydra partner's inactiveness. Bigger fish to try (like

Kismet

from you scum read list) but still go for the easiest one is scummy imo. That's being said.....

UNVOTE: SirCakez

VOTE: Disaster Cartel

Oh it’s bork

I'm taking my Titus comment back (triple embarrassment )!

Oh it’s bork

yes.

and this is kismet:

Spoiler:

Spoiler: