newbie 2060: creatures, game ofer

[Demainer]

I can see luke openwolfing if it's a goon pair game. Brave play, but possible.

What does it mean to be "openwolfing"?

At this point, I am really most interested in getting Egix and Clasko's opinions. So hopefully they check in soon lol

Scum in control and just playing a powerful game in general.

[Demainer]

Where's my vote? Or at least, where have I said my vote's going to be?

I'm not part of your solve? what the fuck have been doing all day?

Have I or have you?

Sorry. What have you been doing all day? I feel like you've taken exception to every single post I've made, regardless of whether my read of you was moving townward or scumward. And those questions: why aren't I scum with Ivy, especially asking for meta reasons for it. I have about 10 very recent games on site that are here for you to peruse if you are actually interested in my meta.

But there's not time for that kind of meta-dig and I'm not particularly fretting about survival here. Surviving, especially as a problematic slot, which YOU HAVE BEEN PUSHING ALL DAY, isn't necessarily pro-town-wincon.

I thought our exchange was very nice.

The original question on ivy wasn't metabased, I was more interested in your analysis of end/your interactions with ivy in this game. Though for the most part all I got was lamist, so I suppose getting a metabased response is still better than nothing.

[Demainer]

Sau is the last piece of the puzzle for me, without some sort of read on that slot, there's too much uncertainty involved.

[fferyllt]

Demainer your tone has changed this evening compared to earlier today. I don't know what to make of that.

There's also a section of day 2 that had a different tone and I'm wondering if the tone changes have something to do with how you perceive other people are reading you.

I felt like you came against me hard during the last 10 hours or so. Aggressive tone, dismissive, even insulting, and I was reading that as comparable to you posts at Wheme. That's part of why I feel like you've been setting me up as a tomorrow-miselim if you can get your Ivy wagon over the line.

Which is part of why I'm perfectly willing to be elimmed today. I feel like my flip, while it doesn't clear Ivy, it will get taken into account that I had a strong enough townread to be semi-self-sacrificing about it.

And I feel like that's a better use of my slot than needlessly soaking up town efforts to resolve me in/before elo.

[fferyllt]

your analysis of end/your interactions

my analysis of endless's interactions is that right or wrong, they are town interactions. Aside from my pre-game iso scan (which was about his tone mostly) and my initial readthrough which was way more focused on other slots than on my own, I'm not wasting time analyzing him. If I'd come into the game to find my slot was voting someone I personally was townreading, I would have dug into the whys, but usually when I disagree with a predecessor, I wind up quite arrogantly going with my own opinion.

As far as my interactions with Ivy, they've been minimal, like with EVERYONE besides you so far, plus a fun but short waltz with Bell. Ivy asks surface questions that mostly appear to be trying to figure out my terminology. Her one post that I've referred a couple times was a reply to me and I'm kinda meh except there were bits I townread.


and oh god I'm going to do another read flip if I keep this up.

[Demainer]

My tone probably has more to do with my mood and energy levels irl. Sorry if I come off as insulting.

I'm not interested in an intentional miselim, it doesn't help anyone. If ivy somehow flips town, which I doubt, but if that's truly the case, then I definitely need to reconsider my position on luke.

For now, I feel ivy is the scummiest of everyone alive, and her flipping either town or scum will also give us good info on how to proceed.

[Lukewarm]

I don't care nearly as much about your read of me as I do about reading you correctly.

@fferyllt You say this, but you still are ignoring the question I have asked you about how you came to your conclusion. In your mind, how does it make sense for me and demainer to be scum, AND for me to have made post 325 + 326 in the game state that they were made. What is the thought process that you have used to allow those two things to co-exist in your read?

It's certainly an uphill battle to push you and if I were scum, my flip would spew you insanely town.

@everyone I was actually thinking about this, why would fferyllt (as scum) make the pair Me+Demainer?. If I am right, and the team is ff + Demainer, and they were trying to come up with a plan of who to push while bussing demainer, then their options were : [Demainer+Ivy] [Demainer+Bell] [Demainer + me]

Who every is place into the mafia accusation would come across as town once ff flipped scum. I have been widely town read by nearly every player (except Clasko for some reason), but Ivy and Bell have both been discussed as possible scum. So ff could have chosen me so that both Bell and Ivy would be under suspicion moving into Day 3.

Honestly fferyllt, you seem like a good/experienced player. So I analyzed how your play could help lead to a town win (and could not find it) then analyzed how your play could lead to a scum win, and this is the scenario I found:

Spoiler:

Day 2:

2

v

5

You flip scum today, which appears to clear Me + Demainer, leaving Bell and Ivy under suspicion / Night kill
Day 3:

1

v

4

We vote out one of them / Night kill
Day 4:

1

v

2

We vote out the other

Mafia Win

Compared to if you, as scum made the bussing paid Demainer + Bell

Day 2:

2

v

5

You flip scum today, which appears to clear Bell + Demainer, leaving Ivy under suspicion / Night kill
Day 3:

1

v

4

We vote out Ivy / Night kill
Day 4:

1

v

2

Who ever is left out of Clasko/Egix/Me have to reexamine Bell and Demainer

50/50 Town/Mafia win

So if you are scum paired with demainer, accusing Me+Demainer has a logical reason behind it.

[fferyllt]

I don't care nearly as much about your read of me as I do about reading you correctly.

@fferyllt You say this, but you still are ignoring the question I have asked you about how you came to your conclusion. In your mind, how does it make sense for me and demainer to be scum, AND for me to have made post 325 + 326 in the game state that they were made. What is the thought process that you have used to allow those two things to co-exist in your read?

It's certainly an uphill battle to push you and if I were scum, my flip would spew you insanely town.

@everyone I was actually thinking about this, why would fferyllt (as scum) make the pair Me+Demainer?. If I am right, and the team is ff + Demainer, and they were trying to come up with a plan of who to push while bussing demainer, then their options were : [Demainer+Ivy] [Demainer+Bell] [Demainer + me]

Who every is place into the mafia accusation would come across as town once ff flipped scum. I have been widely town read by nearly every player (except Clasko for some reason), but Ivy and Bell have both been discussed as possible scum. So ff could have chosen me so that both Bell and Ivy would be under suspicion moving into Day 3.

Honestly fferyllt, you seem like a good/experienced player. So I analyzed how your play could help lead to a town win (and could not find it) then analyzed how your play could lead to a scum win, and this is the scenario I found:

Spoiler:

Day 2:

2

v

5

You flip scum today, which appears to clear Me + Demainer, leaving Bell and Ivy under suspicion / Night kill
Day 3:

1

v

4

We vote out one of them / Night kill
Day 4:

1

v

2

We vote out the other

Mafia Win

Compared to if you, as scum made the bussing paid Demainer + Bell

Day 2:

2

v

5

You flip scum today, which appears to clear Bell + Demainer, leaving Ivy under suspicion / Night kill
Day 3:

1

v

4

We vote out Ivy / Night kill
Day 4:

1

v

2

Who ever is left out of Clasko/Egix/Me have to reexamine Bell and Demainer

50/50 Town/Mafia win

So if you are scum paired with demainer, accusing Me+Demainer has a logical reason behind it.

Lukewarm, I didn't think so much about who you've pushed as I did about how you went about it, which is pretty much flawlessly measured and commensurate, just as you're pushing me here. And that measured style matches some patterns I've seen in really, really good scum players. And to be fair, they're measured when they're town, too.

Anyway, I'm ending the day thinking there are better ways to spend a night than sleeplessly turning over a game, and doubting my reads.

Put "whilst" in the thread search box at the top of the page and let me know if something catches your eye.

[Bell]

I am dying. I am working like a human adult and I hate it.

[fferyllt]

I'm sorry, Bell.

Now catch up and decide if you're still voting me.

[Bell]

My tone probably has more to do with my mood and energy levels irl. Sorry if I come off as insulting.

I'm not interested in an intentional miselim, it doesn't help anyone. If ivy somehow flips town, which I doubt, but if that's truly the case, then I definitely need to reconsider my position on luke.

For now, I feel ivy is the scummiest of everyone alive, and her flipping either town or scum will also give us good info on how to proceed.

I'm probably voting this.

[fferyllt]

because?

[Bell]

Because he's not interested in an intentional miselimination. I find this extremely controversial. He then goes on to say that he will definitely, definitely reconsider his position on Luke if his scum read flips town. Which is just incredible. I've never seen such insight from someone so experienced before.

[Bell]

Maybe he is a noob afterall.

[Bell]

He could be bussing I guess, but Ivy seems the easy miselim. Nobody seems against it which makes me feel gross.

[Bell]

Oh, Luke's against it now. Huh.

[Lukewarm]

Put "whilst" in the thread search box at the top of the page and let me know if something catches your eye.

Oh my god. Reading the "whilst" thread made me feel physically sick to my stomach. I am going to pretend I did not read it, because the only way my brain wants to interpret it would mean that Clasko is scum, and our real town power role just did not counter claim him. I don't see a way that I can productively work towards a win if thats the case, so I am just going to ignore it, but I am actually nauseous right now. The worst possible outcome of this game would be for us to lose because our actual PR just didn't counter claim a scum


I am actually amazed that you were able to catch the weirdness of its usage while just reading through. That is mighty impressive.

Everyone else, for your own sanity, I would recommend you not actually search the thread for "whilst" lol

[fferyllt]

Oh, Luke's against it now. Huh.

That's ok. Luke's voting with you so I'm sure ya'll are both good upstanding townies.

[Demainer]

He could be bussing I guess, but Ivy seems the easy miselim. Nobody seems against it which makes me feel gross.

The vote count begs to differ.

[Bell]

Oh, Luke's against it now. Huh.

That's ok. Luke's voting with you so I'm sure ya'll are both good upstanding townies.

Uh huh.

@Demainer, it's a trajectory but I don't really know what to say to that. Is scum in control or is Ivy scum? Because you really can't have it both ways.

[fferyllt]

Put "whilst" in the thread search box at the top of the page and let me know if something catches your eye.

Oh my god. Reading the "whilst" thread made me feel physically sick to my stomach. I am going to pretend I did not read it, because the only way my brain wants to interpret it would mean that Clasko is scum, and our real town power role just did not counter claim him. I don't see a way that I can productively work towards a win if thats the case, so I am just going to ignore it, but I am actually nauseous right now. The worst possible outcome of this game would be for us to lose because our actual PR just didn't counter claim a scum


I am actually amazed that you were able to catch the weirdness of its usage while just reading through. That is mighty impressive.

Everyone else, for your own sanity, I would recommend you not actually search the thread for "whilst" lol

Sounds like you didn't see the thing that made me curious. And in fact the Clasko uses didn't stand out to me because I think his posting times fit a time zone where "whilst" is much more common than mine.

Ivy's apparent timezone kinda fits too.

Demainer's apparent timezone possibilities doesn't appear to, but they only use the word once, I think. Maybe the sprinklings of whilst in this game are contagious? I sometimes temporarily pick up words I don't usually use due to people using them around me.

[Demainer]

False dilemma.

[fferyllt]

Anyway, I got all nervous about a whilsty scum PT when I saw that one whilst sitting there so lonely in the iso.

When I go tinfoil I go tinfoil.

[Bell]

The human brain is real dumb on pattern recognition. That's my take on this topic. Please bury it.

[Demainer]

I'm interested to know what apparent timezone I'm in.