Newbie 2061 | Views of Tallinn | Town wins

[catboi]

EBWOP: Further, although T3 scumreads Meuh initially he puts her in his top townreads when Meuh is Norwee's scumread and the person he's voting right now, while putting iN3 as his scumread when Norwee has said he's starting to think iN3 is more town

[Pearofclubs]

Needless to say, if i'm actually eliminated here, please put more scrutiny on Pear and In3kro.
I mean, Pear had me as top town earlier.

With regard to my earlier read.
I even mentioned in that very post that it was an early read and they don't mean much, and that was prior to the hypocrisy of attacking Meuh for doing something that you yourself advocated doing earlier. (And not addressing that point doesn't make it go away )

Honestly, I'm becoming of the opinion that you mentioned that earlier so that you could have it around as an option if you needed it later, and with Marcistar's response anyone else who goes after N-M could be targeted. If no one goes after N-M before you do, you can suggest it at your leisure since you were in that conversation yourself and you can use that to assuage any suspicions. Scum!Norwee could use this to win either way. You could steer a wagon you don't like towards someone pushing N-M, or a policy elimination on him as a compromise in the event you don't like existing wagons.

After all, as an experienced player in a newbie game, your word carries weight. If you decide a policy elimination on N-M is a good idea, people are more likely to follow than if, say, I did it.

If nothing else, as a player with as much experience as you have, people (including myself) should question whether or not they could really read you,

if you WERE scum.

So I'm keeping my vote

right where it is.

In this moment, I think it's our best shot at hitting scum. And if I'm wrong I welcome the suspicion and scrutiny that that would bring.

[Meuh]

Every post from Pear has me at the edge of my seat for some reason. This is spicy!

[Pearofclubs]

This is all

interesting

but it all feels rather presumptive? Like, you present an example of why this is what scum

could

be doing but I'm not sure it covers the ground to say Norwee is scum

because

he is doing this? That is to say, that his actions make more sense coming from scum than from town. Do you think his vote on Meuh is insincere. I don't agree with his early tonal scumread but I can understand him taking issue with what Meuh was saying in the way he did. It didn't raise a flag for me.

(Just thought of this and figured it warranted a response)
It is rather presumptive. But that's the point, when his vote on Meuh pinged me I got suspicious, and chose to do a full reread up to that point, with the assumption that Norwee was scum, to see whether or not his choices made more sense from that perspective, and they do. After all, we all get thoughts that skew our reads. My initial read was under the impression that Norwee was more likely town at that point.

And the reason it pinged me is the hypocrisy. I remembered that conversation earlier about policy wagons against people like N-M. Norwee advocated it, Marci provided a counterpoint, Meuh responded to the conversation, so if she were scum, she would have known not to push N-M. Let someone else do it and take the heat for it.

[T3]

EBWOP: Further, although T3 scumreads Meuh initially he puts her in his top townreads when Meuh is Norwee's scumread and the person he's voting right now, while putting iN3 as his scumread when Norwee has said he's starting to think iN3 is more town

Those were my initial reads after reading the first few pages.

[catboi]

EBWOP: Further, although T3 scumreads Meuh initially he puts her in his top townreads when Meuh is Norwee's scumread and the person he's voting right now, while putting iN3 as his scumread when Norwee has said he's starting to think iN3 is more town

Those were my initial reads after reading the first few pages.

This isn't a criticism of you, for the record. I think your content thus far is acceptable, and the explanations for your reads so far make sense. I just find it very hard to believe Norwee looks at what you've said and is in some way impressed by it, especially when your reads are fairly different from his.

[Meuh]

My gut's been telling me that a Norwee elim is the right way to go since Pear made 305
I think part of it is just kinda for satisfaction? Norwee's been pushing on me and tbh the idea of someone who's either:
-Scum pushing on me or
-Town wrongfully scumreading me
being elimed is pretty appealing, but there's just something so off about Norwee that I can't shake off.
My brain's been fluctuating on it a lot and I don't really like the idea of going after someone who's going after me because of the bias I just stated, but ugh, it feels like the right way to go. That's the reason I gave Norwee his own tier, he's in a space of his own in my mind and I'm unsure what to think of him.
I can visualize a scum flip on Norwee much more realistically than one on N_M. Tori had a fair point in 105, Norwee was active, but mostly unhelpful. Making meaningless comments, along with bringing up meta on N_M. Since then, nothing's changed. Active ≠ helpful. Norwee's posting has been mostly fluff, with some occasional pushes that are either basic, or on me (smh).

A flip on Norwee would be pretty helpful. I think a red flip does a lot to clear up Ink and Pear especially, and I think warrants looking into Marci, Sama and N_M. A green flip would probably mean casting some doubt on Pear, Catboi and Ink? and clears up Marci a bit.
My gut says his flip will be red though.

Not voting yet because idk if I should be bringing this to E-1 and I'd love to discuss it a bit further.

[Pearofclubs]

If Not-Mafia's reputation is anything to go by, bringing someone to E-1 results in a hammer.
So you made the right choice not rushing it

As a fun aside, the fact that it HASN'T been brought to E-1 is convincing me that Norwee is scum a bit more.
After all, if Norwee was town, why wouldn't scum bring him in range for N-M to finish the job?
There're only two reasons I can think of. Either Norwee is scum, or both scum are already on the wagon.
I recognize that if I'm wrong this is going to make it harder for me to defend myself tomorrow, but food for thought

[Meuh]

I mean scum might be holding back cause just bringing someone to E-1 with no precedent, N_M or not, is not the greatest of looks? Or they may just not really be online right now. It hasn't been too long since Catboi's placed his vote.

[T3]

The problem with voting NM here is that he has no discernible meta so his actions aren't actually AI. NM would be a much easier read if we had a VCA later in the game after some flips.

[Pearofclubs]

I mean scum might be holding back cause just bringing someone to E-1 with no precedent, N_M or not, is not the greatest of looks? Or they may just not really be online right now. It hasn't been too long since Catboi's placed his vote.

Until this conversation, one could say that they didn't expect N-M to do it, or that they forgot that he tends to.
That last bit is entirely legitimate, though

[iN3krO]

I think warrants looking into Marci, Sama and N_M.

I would add Catboi to that list

[Meuh]

The problem with voting NM here is that he has no discernible meta so his actions aren't actually AI. NM would be a much easier read if we had a VCA later in the game after some flips.

The idea of N_M at the final 5 or final 3 is very painful

[T3]

I think warrants looking into Marci, Sama and N_M.

I would add Catboi to that list

Why?

[lendunistus]

Newbie 2061 - Votecount 1.11

Votecount

NorwegianboyEE (3):

Pearofclubs, iN3krO, catboi

Meuh (2):

NorwegianboyEE, marcistar

Not_Mafia (1):

Meuh

catboi (1):

Not_Mafia

iN3krO (1):

T3

Not Voting (1):

Samawoodo

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate a player.

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-04-18 06:00:00)

Vote history

Spoiler:

Meuh votes Pearofclubs: Post #9
NorwegianboyEE votes Not_Mafia: Post #10
Samawoodo votes Toriiiiiiiiiiii: Post #15
catboi votes Pearofclubs: Post #45
Not_Mafia votes themselves: Post #46
NorwegianboyEE votes Meuh: Post #60
iN3krO votes catboi: Post #96
Pearofclubs votes iN3krO: Post #97
Meuh votes catboi: Post #100
NorwegianboyEE votes iN3krO: Post #125
Pearofclubs votes catboi: Post #134
catboi votes iN3krO: Post #174
Meuh votes Toriiiiiiiiiiii: Post #210
Not_Mafia votes iN3krO: Post #230
catboi votes Not_Mafia: Post #240
Meuh votes Not_Mafia: Post #242
NorwegianboyEE votes Meuh: Post #267
Not_Mafia votes catboi: Post #295
Pearofclubs votes NorwegianboyEE: Post #305
iN3krO votes NorwegianboyEE: Post #309
marcistar votes Meuh: Post #313
T3 votes iN3krO: Post #350
Samawoodo unvotes T3: Post #359
catboi votes NorwegianboyEE: Post #374

[NorwegianboyEE]

This wagon on me is extremely dumb lmao.

[NorwegianboyEE]

As a fun aside, the fact that it HASN'T been brought to E-1 is convincing me that Norwee is scum a bit more.
After all, if Norwee was town, why wouldn't scum bring him in range for N-M to finish the job?

Dumbest shit i’ve ever read.
If town it’s sad.

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: In3kro
Vote this out when i flip town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Catboi Pear town so don’t vote them.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don’t bother explaining all of my takes because i rely a lot on gut and don’t care about explaining myself all the time.
...in what world do i play this way as scum? I’m clearly not defending anyone or playing with an agenda. Then again, i don’t expect anyone here to be familiar enough with my meta to see beyond their tunnel vision.
"Hurr Durr he scum for not explaining his post" is the traditional take for newbs so i don’t blame anyone for voting me. I’m just dissapointed. I’ve also been working a day to day job that’s very tiring so complaining about my fading activity being somehow allignment indicative is 100% bullshit.
Then again, if that’s what’s going to happen then go ahead, it’s just the day 1 elimination anyway.
But remember, Pear and Catboi don’t feel that scummy to me. Of my wagon when i’ve flipped town the elimination order should be always In3kro first and MAYBE Catboi, but i don’t really scumread him. Pear feels very town.

[Samawoodo]

Needless to say, if i'm actually eliminated here, please put more scrutiny on Pear and In3kro.
I mean, Pear had me as top town earlier.

With regard to my earlier read.
I even mentioned in that very post that it was an early read and they don't mean much, and that was prior to the hypocrisy of attacking Meuh for doing something that you yourself advocated doing earlier. (And not addressing that point doesn't make it go away )

Honestly, I'm becoming of the opinion that you mentioned that earlier so that you could have it around as an option if you needed it later, and with Marcistar's response anyone else who goes after N-M could be targeted. If no one goes after N-M before you do, you can suggest it at your leisure since you were in that conversation yourself and you can use that to assuage any suspicions. Scum!Norwee could use this to win either way. You could steer a wagon you don't like towards someone pushing N-M, or a policy elimination on him as a compromise in the event you don't like existing wagons.

After all, as an experienced player in a newbie game, your word carries weight. If you decide a policy elimination on N-M is a good idea, people are more likely to follow than if, say, I did it.

If nothing else, as a player with as much experience as you have, people (including myself) should question whether or not they could really read you,

if you WERE scum.

So I'm keeping my vote

right where it is.

In this moment, I think it's our best shot at hitting scum. And if I'm wrong I welcome the suspicion and scrutiny that that would bring.

I think you are overthinking stuff.

If norwee word carries more weight it would be because he is playing and making reading as a genuine town (at least for me). I didn’t give a fuck about his experience or w/e.

Actually, his behavior in this game have been always following the same line. It’s not like he has suddenly changed opinions about his own readings (unlike others)

Actually, if he flips town, what are you going to do?

[Samawoodo]

What happens if there is a draw??

No eliminations?

[Meuh]

What happens if there is a draw??

No eliminations?

There can't be a draw. Unlike other places where it's most votes at the end of the day is eliminated, it's once a majority of votes gather on a player, they are instantly eliminated and the day ends. So either someone gets hammered or no one does, no way for a tie to happen.

[Meuh]

I don’t bother explaining all of my takes because i rely a lot on gut and don’t care about explaining myself all the time.
...in what world do i play this way as scum? I’m clearly not defending anyone or playing with an agenda. Then again, i don’t expect anyone here to be familiar enough with my meta to see beyond their tunnel vision.
"Hurr Durr he scum for not explaining his post" is the traditional take for newbs so i don’t blame anyone for voting me. I’m just dissapointed. I’ve also been working a day to day job that’s very tiring so complaining about my fading activity being somehow allignment indicative is 100% bullshit.
Then again, if that’s what’s going to happen then go ahead, it’s just the day 1 elimination anyway.
But remember, Pear and Catboi don’t feel that scummy to me. Of my wagon when i’ve flipped town the elimination order should be always In3kro first and MAYBE Catboi, but i don’t really scumread him. Pear feels very town.

I haven't seen anyone using activity as an argument against you. It's been brought up a bit in other contexts but I don't think that's somehow a core part of the case against you.
You can't defend yourself if you're not here, like you said you're busy, plus acting very desperate to get the votes off you probably wouldn't be a great look either.
Gut plays a role in many people's thought processes, I don't think anyone doesn't play using their gut at least to some degree, but there's also gotta be some more to it. Sharing the posts that ping you particularly, making some arguments that aren't just "gut tells me" and just generally being open with your thought process is something I look for in townies personally. Being too specific in argument can be meh, like Pear's whole argument about you and Catboi relied on you and him being the team which is very unlikely but they still made good points and helped further the game.
I'm fine pushing on Ink tomorrow if this flips green, they have a pattern of odd behaviour by this point and a green flip on Norwee will say a lot about their alignment. If this flips red then I'll have my eyes on Sama, Marci and N_M.

[Meuh]

I'll place my vote on Norwee in a few hours so we can safely have enough time to get a hammer.