Mini 2206 - Deja Vu: Perpetual MELO IV - END!

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 1-20

Nachomamma8

(5): Venus Fly Trap, Infinity 324, Kismet, notscience, SirCakez

Not_Mafia

(2): Not_Mafia, Momrangal

The Bulge

(1): Nachomamma8

notscience

(1): petapan

Disaster Cartel

(1): Salsabil Faria

petapan

(1): Disaster Cartel

Not Voting

(1): The Bulge

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

Deadline: April 26, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2021-04-25 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

- The Bulge has been prodded.
-

[Disaster Cartel]

idk maybe I should be reconsidering notty bc it feels like he's just pushing town the whole time but he feels so righteous about it that I think he's more likely town with his head up his ass than scum

[Disaster Cartel]

ffery how the fuck are you getting this many pagetops

[Infinity 324]

These aren't the real reasons I SR nacho (namely gut) but other people have pointed out a) his read flip on VFT was sudden and didn't seem genuine, and the read didn't seem genuine to begin with, b) The "sheep me after I die" thing didn't make much sense when he had similar reads to a bunch of other people and c) the read flip on peta when he replaced in didn't make sense

[Infinity 324]

and I'm saying that I think you know me well enough to know that approaching it in that way was never likely to actually achieve that if that was your goal and idk why you didn't just try to engage me at that point like you are now

It certainly seemed like trying to actually play mafia wouldn't achieve much, I don't think I know upset!mena well enough to know what would help and what wouldn't. My instinct is to try to stop toxic situations before they come up, maybe I could've approached it differently

[Disaster Cartel]

Why do you think nacho is scum?

there's a lot in my iso about this but to hit the high points:

1) the biggest issue was the early engage on cakez, which felt like a move designed to emotionally manipulate cakez rather than read him, and the level of "i'm fed up with your shit" didn't seem like a legitimate reaction to what cakez had actually done at that point
2) the VFT shift seemed completely out of left field and didn't seem like legitimate paranoia at the time for me, just "I reread one post from lilith and decided they're town now" and I personally didn't see why that post in particular got them from strong scum to weak town read.
(Incidentally you and nacho are both ignoring skitter to read lilith, but seem to have come to completely opposite conclusions. If she's really the easier to read one, uh, I'm not seeing it here. Skitter looks town.
3) I still hatehatehatehate 871, and I explain in 882 why
4) I guess I'm really wary of the AtE in 887+ as it just sounds like to me someone really trying to be upset but like not actually upset.


what it's explicitly NOT about is the engagement on not_mafia (as I mentioned in 117) during the early points of the game, which I found to be oblique but am not scumreading. There's a lot of room for philosophical differences about how to approach this game.

I'm certainly open to talking about why you think he's town at this point in the game.

Maybe asking me about shit in the first place might have been a good place to start

I feel like I spent the majority of the early game doing this rather than attacking, but like even if you're town and I'm completely wrong on you I'm not going to apologize for being wrong. This is what we do to solve the game.
I'm doing my best not to make this a toxic interaction. You're a good player and I want you to be town and I feel like you have the ability to show it if that's legitimately what you are.

but like... cakez' intro was bad and I think deservedly called out by nacho? like if it was slightly exaggerated so what, it was still a good push then and is a good push now

and I mean, skitter most always looks town, that doesn't make her town. whereas lili is I think clearer to read. I'll go and find the nacho post where he talks about why he's reading lili as town in a minute but I do think that's the better way to read the hydra so I also don't really see what's wrong with this

I also don't think 871 is that bad unless you think he's lying about notty and infinity. I think he's wrong on infinity haviing left range, probably is right on notty, but the general point that the standard should be different for both of them vs a skitter-led hydra is like.. very reasonable imo?

I also don't think 887 is very AtE-ish *shrug*

right and I'm not talking about you necessarily but I feel like that's what started off the wagon train and then it's just never really been let go of, and new reasons have been provided as and when necessary

----

I think he's town bc, as mentioned, I think he's just approaching the game in a very similar way to how I'm approaching it and has been the whole time. like, it's annoying that he has no idea how to read me and idk it would be good if ydrasse were here more bc I think she's somewhat easier to read but like

idk I just identify very strongly with him. it feels a lot like scum are playing a power game and have just kind of managed to freeze out both of us from having any real impact on the game by encouraging the narrative that we're scum since super early on when I don't think there was a substantive basis for that at all. but then that's continued instead of there being like, very much interest at all in re-evaluating either of our slots.

basically I feel like my slot is being handled in a certain way by scum, and when I look at nacho, who I think has had similar takes to me and a similar strategic approach, it feels like the same thing has been done to him. does that make sense?

***

I feel like you scumbinned me super early for very weak reasons and then weren't super interested in getting into it. but like salsa and cakez are the worse culprits there but by the time you were also doing it I already felt like fuck this game vibes

[Infinity 324]

To be 100% honest nothing anyone has said has convinced me that {me, notsci, bork, VFT} isn't a townbloc, and I'm sort of just waiting for mom/bulge to post because those are the only slots I don't feel like I've sorted yet. People have said that nacho could be town, which is possible I guess, but nacho is mostly on board with the bloc as well? Maybe I'll re-evaluate VFT but yeah that's where I'm at with the game rn

[Disaster Cartel]

I don't believe that DC believes these reads

...because ?

[Disaster Cartel]

there are definitely easier wagons for scum...

said wagons being... ?

[Disaster Cartel]

actually yeh

VOTE: cakez

[notscience]

@The Bulge or Salsa

Free towncred to whoever sets up notmafia to hammer

[SirCakez]

and i'm wondering how many times you'll end up killing obvtown before you realize this townblock is toxic and you are being pocketed

There's literally no evidence of this

[SirCakez]

i see you are also in opposition to this atrocious wagon but unfortunately your vote is on me

could i persuade you to find a more suitable counterwagon

I've experienced Peta replace ins before and he's never been so obsessed with how people are reading him

[SirCakez]

but like... cakez' intro was bad and I think deservedly called out by nacho? like if it was slightly exaggerated so what, it was still a good push then and is a good push now

I hate this
Nacho's pushback against me was very entangled with our histories playing together
Calling my intro objectively "bad" as called out by Nacho feels like heavy misrep

[SirCakez]

there are definitely easier wagons for scum...

said wagons being... ?

NM or the Bulge

I don't believe that DC believes these reads

...because ?

There's no conviction in how you're talking about any of them

[petapan]

i see you are also in opposition to this atrocious wagon but unfortunately your vote is on me

could i persuade you to find a more suitable counterwagon

I've experienced Peta replace ins before and he's never been so obsessed with how people are reading him

"obsessed" is a rather disingenuous statement - i am in opposition to this shitwagon and am trying to work with people to create a counter to it

speaking of which

VOTE: cakez

[Infinity 324]

Tbh I think mena is being towny

[Salsabil Faria]

I'm pretty burned out today from playing another game, I'll check this thread tomorrow first. Sorry!

[petapan]

These aren't the real reasons I SR nacho (namely gut) but other people have pointed out a) his read flip on VFT was sudden and didn't seem genuine, and the read didn't seem genuine to begin with, b) The "sheep me after I die" thing didn't make much sense when he had similar reads to a bunch of other people and c) the read flip on peta when he replaced in didn't make sense

so after looking through for a) (while cringing at how painfully town he is there, he's not responding with the dramatic theatrics i'd expect from him here as scum - i don't think he makes 483 or as scum), he's staying focused on trying read people andd get a broad picture rather than turning things into a drawn out argument), i don't see what's so bad about changing the read there necessarily? he was arguing with them and started to change his mind. it happens. and just because an action does not

make sense

doesn't mean it has to be scum motivated. that's one of the things i feel scum like to push people on, that they're being "weird" and "don't make sense" rather than actually calling them outright scummy, because they can't bridge the gap of making a real case. why does he reverse his read there at all?

b) is literally whatever, it's a line town says or scum says to look town, it's really altogether trivial. why does it matter if his reads are similar to other people? unless they're pure common consensus i'd expect town to want to assert that over some people who think differently

c) is prior to me showing up so i don't think it can really be held up as justification for aread you've had for seemingly a majority of the game but nacho knows i know this isn't his scumgame and is probably going to welcome me as a voice of reason, and i AM in fact more readable than random lurkslot, i effectively outed myself to him in popcorn mafia within very little time after subbing in. i'd be worried if he was going "peta locktown" but that's not really what he's saying

[notscience]

I’d find it more fun if you guys make me the counterwagon instead of Cakez

[petapan]

i don't think he makes 483 or 736 as scum),

EBWOP

[SirCakez]

I'm surprised it took this long it's an anomaly if i am not wagoned day 1 lol

[petapan]

why are people not talking about momrangal btw

[notscience]

I already said the scum team is you nacho (mena/salsa) mom notmaf


All maras done is omgus all game lmao

[SirCakez]

Mom is a universal a undead but no traction came on her wagon
Seems pretty obvious what is going on there