newbie 2060: creatures, game ofer

[fferyllt]

Never in a million years would scum-me make a play like that.

I would not be the first player to hard-push my scum partner.

I would never agree to my partner leaving a vote on my while they replace out.

I'm supportive of replace-outs with my scum partners but I would want them to leave me in the best possible place for going on to win.

This is nothing like the best possible place for scum-me to be.

[Lukewarm]

Never in a million years would scum-me make a play like that.

I would not be the first player to hard-push my scum partner.

You would never bus your partner to try and take a win? I thought you said you were experienced at this game. Bussing / allowing yourself to be bussed it regularly the best play for mafia, but you would never bus your scum partner?

I would never agree to my partner leaving a vote on my while they replace out.

I'm supportive of replace-outs with my scum partners but I would want them to leave me in the best possible place for going on to win.

This is nothing like the best possible place for scum-me to be.

I have already explained that I think that this is the best possible pace for you to be in for a win. Bell outing themselves gave you two different plays to make to try and win this game, and you have already tried to use both of them.
1) If you could try to convince me to go along with voting Bell today, then his death could be used to further your game plan of bussing him today, in order to win tomorrow. or
2) If I fought against it, you could try to frame it as indicative that we were partnered, or as you put it, that I was making

Probably the most untownlike push you've made all game

[fferyllt]

Never in a million years would scum-me make a play like that.

I would not be the first player to hard-push my scum partner.

You would never bus your partner to try and take a win? I thought you said you were experienced at this game. Bussing / allowing yourself to be bussed it regularly the best play for mafia, but you would never bus your scum partner?

I would never agree to my partner leaving a vote on my while they replace out.

I'm supportive of replace-outs with my scum partners but I would want them to leave me in the best possible place for going on to win.

This is nothing like the best possible place for scum-me to be.

I have already explained that I think that this is the best possible pace for you to be in for a win. Bell outing themselves gave you two different plays to make to try and win this game, and you have already tried to use both of them.
1) If you could try to convince me to go along with voting Bell today, then his death could be used to further your game plan of bussing him today, in order to win tomorrow. or
2) If I fought against it, you could try to frame it as indicative that we were partnered, or as you put it, that I was making

Probably the most untownlike push you've made all game

I don't bus as a strategy, no. I bus by necessity sometimes, but I let town decide that's where they are headed. I don't usually consider myself to be the go-long scum player, and focus more on setting up my partner to go long. One of those games you aren't interested in reading is a game where one of my scum partners was having an awful time in real life. I tried so hard to help get him into the game, in a situation where other players were going to correctly scumread him for his lack of engagement. I did eventually vote him, but was pushing the player leading the lynch for more/better reasons late, late into that gameday.

You're either scum (likely) or town who doesn't understand the how awful this play would be if we were partners. And I don't think you can hide behind ignorance or naivety. Not with the amount of experience you claim to have, and with the overall level of play you've shown here.

Maybe? I just don't think so.

[fferyllt]

I mean, you may win if you're scum? I just hope it's not day 3. I hope town gets another day to work on this.

[Lukewarm]

You just what you think of Bell making this play:

That was a gamethrow of a move.

So I would like for you to stop, and analyze Bell making that play.

• Do you think he is a jerk, who purposefully made a bad play, because he knew he was replacing out?
  
• Do you think he is a bad player, who did not think about the fact that making that vote would out him as scum?
  
• Do you think that he was making a play, trying to manipulate the way the day, trying to help the scum win?

I am pretty sure it is option 3. Which leads to the question, making that play, who does it help?

Is bell outing himself more likely to convince Egix to vote Bell (which is what you want) or is it more likely to make Egix want to vote for one of the two of us (which is what I want).

Before he made that play, you wanted us to vote Bell. After he made that play, you used it as further evidence that a Bell vote today was the safest vote of the day, and you used to describe my plan as "the most untownlike" plan I could endorse.

From my own PoV, I feel like Bell outing himself has made it considerably harder for me to reach the goal I outlined.

[fferyllt]

Luke, I can't really entertain that because I know incontrovertibly that it's false. That's info that only I have.

Bell is going to flip scum 99.99% and I want to go for the sure thing and hope that if I'm wrong about you, more data will help me figure it out.

Bell doesn't enjoy being scum because he feels like he's bad at it. The one other time that Bell replaced out of a game I was playing, he was scum. Life got busy and he dropped off the site entirely for a couple of years. Drawing a scum role during that time made it easier. I feel like that plays into how he plays this.

And sadly, I think the way he replaced out points away from you in that there's a strong likelihood that he's elimmed and I think you would have been trying to get him to look as town as possible when he replaced out.

and yet at the same time it also points at you because you want my miselim today so the game ends today and not in a 2-1 battle tomorrow, and maybe you feel that a vote already down on me is the best position Bell can make for you.

I feel like it's suboptimal, but I play a low-key scum game and like to just sit back and let town make mistakes when I can.

If Town-Bell really did believe I'm scum, he would have put a case together on me, and most likely wouldn't have dropped a vote.

[fferyllt]

This post just popped into my mind. posting it so I don't forget about it by tomorrow.

atm, I'm trying to see if I can find a good partner for Demainer. I still haven't been liking their posts, but I've felt pretty equal on most everyone else, which is of course a problem.

[Lukewarm]

This post just popped into my mind. posting it so I don't forget about it by tomorrow.

atm, I'm trying to see if I can find a good partner for Demainer. I still haven't been liking their posts, but I've felt pretty equal on most everyone else, which is of course a problem.

What is the point of bringing this up? Are you trying to bring Ivy back into suspicion?

I think that I have pretty clearly outlined why it could not possibly be Bell+Ivy in post 714.

If it was Ivy+me, we would have won the game the moment Bell voted for you.

So I am unclear what angle you could approach that at. If anything, bringing that post up highlights why I am worried about leaving the game determining decision in Ivy's hands.

[Lukewarm]

Luke, I can't really entertain that because I know incontrovertibly that it's false. That's info that only I have.

Bell is going to flip scum 99.99% and I want to go for the sure thing and hope that if I'm wrong about you, more data will help me figure it out.

Bell doesn't enjoy being scum because he feels like he's bad at it. The one other time that Bell replaced out of a game I was playing, he was scum. Life got busy and he dropped off the site entirely for a couple of years. Drawing a scum role during that time made it easier. I feel like that plays into how he plays this.

And sadly, I think the way he replaced out points away from you in that there's a strong likelihood that he's elimmed and I think you would have been trying to get him to look as town as possible when he replaced out.

and yet at the same time it also points at you because you want my miselim today so the game ends today and not in a 2-1 battle tomorrow, and maybe you feel that a vote already down on me is the best position Bell can make for you.

I feel like it's suboptimal, but I play a low-key scum game and like to just sit back and let town make mistakes when I can.

If Town-Bell really did believe I'm scum, he would have put a case together on me, and most likely wouldn't have dropped a vote.

Ugh. Getting you to answer my questions is so hard. Maybe it is the way I have formatted my own posts, I'm not sure.

But this is not the first time that I have made posts that were structured as "fferyylt, I would like you to analyze x, and answer these questions. Here is my own analysis / answers" and your response jumps to combatting my own analysis/answers instead of addressing my questions directed at you. You did this happened multiple times on day 2 as well, in regards to Demainer.

I cannot tell if you are purposefully dancing around my questions, or if it is because of the way I have it formatted (ie, I end with my own answers, therefore that is the part you focus on in your response)

Should I be formatting my posts differently? Like maybe, asking the questions, but then holding back my own answers until after you have responded?

I don't mind you analyzing/combatting my answers, but I also would like to be able to get clear answers from you as well (which is why I asked them in the first place.)

[Lukewarm]

I'll try again.

I would like for you to analyze Bell making that play.

• Do you think he purposefully made a bad play, because he knew he was replacing out?
  
• Do you think he did not think about the fact that making that vote would out him as scum?
  
• Do you think that he was being strategic with that vote. attempting to help his partner as much as he could before exiting the game?

If you decide that it is option 3, I would like you to also answer the question: in making that play, who does it help?
Does it help or make it harder for me to get what I want? (For Egix to push todays vote on either you or me)
Does it help or make it harder for you to get what you you? (For Egix to push todays vote on Bell)


Another question I came up with since my original post:
Imagine we follow your lead; vote bell today, and enter into Day 4 with you, me, and Ivy. Do you think Bell's vote against you today make Ivy more likely to vote me or to vote you Day 4?

[fferyllt]

Yeah, maybe try formatting them differently going forward? I think my head has been wanting to decomplexify stuff I read because of insomnia.

I'll see if I can find the other posts you're talking about tomorrow.

Regarding the Ivy quote, I posted it in the interests of transparency.

I'm strongly leaning toward scum-you and town-ivy, but I'm not certain enough to lock it in. I'm still thinking and weighing things up. On day 2, I put my whole thought process into the game thread because I was getting to grips with ~3 weeks worth of game, in 2 days. I wanted my reactions, theories, conclusions, etc. about the game into the thread as data for reading me. This game day, I'm mostly here to react to stuff as it hits the thread, which is in some ways maybe easier to read, and I still want to be transparent. I'm not going to pretend I have stronger reads than I do. I have one super-strong scum read and I and I want to absolutely assure that town gets a scum elim today and the game actually reaches 2-1 and doesn't end with a scum win on day 3.

p-edit I see your new post and I'll go over it when I can get back to the game. I really need to shut things down and deal with vaccine-itis.

[Ivyeo]

I'm really sorry, have been busy IRL, reading from start of day now.

[Egix96]

^^ Scum.

Replacing out leaving a vote on another player at ELO is absolutely not something Town-Bell would do.

I'm more than satisfied he should be the elim.

Fmpov it would be reckless of me to say he must be scum for it, but it is indeed extremely irresponsible.
The thing is that it's caused a shift in the dynamic since I was feeling like the cross vote was likely to be ffery v. Luke.

This afternoon I should be able to make a start on re-reading.

[Ivyeo]

So I've been in a similar situation in video, and was told that I shouldn't out my reads on the two that we're probably not executing (FF and Luke in this case) today because it could give Scum a better idea who to kill does that appliy here too?

[Lukewarm]

So I've been in a similar situation in video, and was told that I shouldn't out my reads on

the two that we're probably not executing (FF and Luke in this case)

today because it could give Scum a better idea who to kill does that appliy here too?

I guess this proves that you are better at convincing Ivy then I am

[Lukewarm]

^^ Scum.

Replacing out leaving a vote on another player at ELO is absolutely not something Town-Bell would do.

I'm more than satisfied he should be the elim.

Fmpov it would be reckless of me to say he must be scum for it, but it is indeed extremely irresponsible.
The thing is that it's caused a shift in the dynamic since I was feeling like the cross vote was likely to be ffery v. Luke.

This afternoon I should be able to make a start on re-reading.

I guess from an outside PoV, it only really proves that either Bell or Ivy or both must be scum, because any TvT scenario would have already resulted in a loss.

From Ivy's PoV, she knows for certain Bell's alignment no matter what, TvS, SvT, or SvS

Spoiler:

its SvS

From my PoV, it proves Bell+fferyllt. The play clears Ivy in my mind Post 714, and I already know I am clear

[Ivyeo]

@luke
I may be missing something, you're scared to go for bell because you're afraid of a FF+You+Me in F3 right?

[Ivyeo]

Oh, I could have phrased that better too ig, I didn't neccesarly mean who were are executing I was refering to who we were most sure of as evil, and just putting that because I was tired, still open to hearing other opinions on who to exectue, but I'm pretty sure that slot is just evil at this point.

[schadd_]

unwnd replaces bell.

[unwnd]

Hey ffery and everyone else

I haven't read much of anything but did feel like ffery/bell (myself) could be potentially warring against another as tvt

[unwnd]

I did catch one thing in my eye though

Someone saying My slot/FFery could be scum together

And to that I say -- You're delusional. As it stands right now I am indeed town so let me go back a bit further and wonder where this mess started

[unwnd]

FFery I went back and saw you did a huge dive on my slot but also Lukewarm. I also noted that Lukewarm had a decently receptive response to it as well. I assume your thought process right now is that you have two scum who are working from different positions. Bell being the slanker who hates being scum and Lukewarm who allows Bell to get away with it. Right now I don't think that's reality, and while I don't have an exact name to address I do again believe you're town here and that this isn't a team of masterminds either

[unwnd]

FFery can you tell me what makes you so confident on Ivyeo town? Purely from an active standpoint she fits into my head visual of 'inbetween the current shitfight and just letting it happen'

Because I'd be lying if that feeling did not influence me to try and salvage this

[fferyllt]

I don't have a godtier town read on Ivy.

I'm not going to try to dig into this again until maybe tonight. But, here's my bedrock assumptions

I really can't conceive of Bell not being scum.

I would be hammered by now if he were replace-out town and left a vote on me.

I'd be yelling about your not unvoting me, except if Luke and Ivy were both scum this game would be over already.

Egix is cop-cleared town. There's no third option here.

[unwnd]

Ivyeo I ISO'd your slot and noted that you believed it was Demainer>Egix in terms of your evil team, yet somehow the conversation has been more about me and FFery. Some other notable feelings I saw is this strange inference of 'not wanting to get it wrong' earlier in the game with a lot of loose dialogue, and then coming in with strong convictions towards your team. Where exactly did this change and more importantly, why are you not fighting over it?