newbie 2060: creatures, game ofer

[unwnd]

Alright but that's not what is happening

[fferyllt]

getting townread is like manna from heaven after late day 2. and you're someone who could be reasonably expected to find town-me in my posts this game.

if you are town, I can't grasp how you're processing this game.

I'm going to back away. not feeling that great.

Maybe there's some sort of method to what you're doing.

[Ivyeo]

I will say, One thing making it feel less like distancing is that it almost feels *too* obvious, though given the hand you were dealt I suppose you may not have a choice

[Ivyeo]

(Also is this 3 people on at the same time?)

[fferyllt]

Do you think it's personally in my best interest as scum to come in here and spit rhetoric at you

No, I don't. If there's something you're trying to pursue with this line of thought, I should get out of the middle of it and observe.

That's what I'm going to try to do.

[unwnd]

Let me try to give a framework of where I'm at right now with everything presented to me:

FFery, I townread your slot when I wasn't here and I came in here in hopes of stopping a TvT. I get what you've said and I get how Ivyeo/Lukewarm could've hammered me. That's fine and a reasonable explanation. If I'm wrong about you then I take zero credit of suddenly needing to change my mind due to the odds I'm in. I think if you're scum here your position has already been set and that's the only thing that could potentially be happening. You're one person however and you have a partner.

That leaves Ivyeo and Luke to worry about. You're absolutely right but it would be such a strange fucking affair for you arguing that (Me/Luke) are scum and then your hypothetical partner Luke arguing that (Me/You) are scum. I mean sure that's a form of distancing but the permeating silence elsewhere is what made me uneasy, and what made me even consider something that you+Lukewarm apparently have no interest in entertaining. I would like a more definitive stance from Lukewarm at the least as to why he thinks Ivyeo is town, and I've noted that you still townread her but it's not golden or anything.

[unwnd]

I will say, One thing making it feel less like distancing is that it almost feels *too* obvious, though given the hand you were dealt I suppose you may not have a choice

Could you explain this thought further? I am town here and I have reasons to think you're just letting either (Ffery/Luke) fight your battles for you

[Ivyeo]

I was saying that you might also be partnered with Luke and trying to make it *look* like you're distancing with FF, essientally anti-distancing you two

[fferyllt]

What looks to you like unwnd distancing from me?

[unwnd]

I was saying that you might also be partnered with Luke and trying to make it *look* like you're distancing with FF, essientally anti-distancing you two

I don't feel like you've made enough of a stance on what's going on either way, despite your comments leaning it being me lol

[Ivyeo]

That's because I'm still not sure what hte right play is. Whilst I'm pretty sure you're 1 of the scum, I can absolutely see where Luke is going with not wanting to have me have to make a call in F3. If we're executing Unwnd today then I shouldn't share my reads bc that gives mafia more info, and if we arent then obviously I should because we're making the call today, and I'm just not sure what direction town is heading. I'd love to hear from Egix on this.

[Lukewarm]

if luke is town you and I can't both be town. it's simple math at this point.

if you're town you can be trying to figure out if one of luke/me is town

If unwnd is town, they should know 100% that you are scum. Because a town bell vote on a town you would have been a scum win. I am unclear why they seem apprehensive on that tbh.

[fferyllt]

if luke is town you and I can't both be town. it's simple math at this point.

if you're town you can be trying to figure out if one of luke/me is town

If unwnd is town, they should know 100% that you are scum. Because a town bell vote on a town you would have been a scum win. I am unclear why they seem apprehensive on that tbh.

I'm town, though. One of you three is also town.

I don't get at all what unwnd's doing here.

[Lukewarm]

if luke is town you and I can't both be town. it's simple math at this point.

if you're town you can be trying to figure out if one of luke/me is town

If unwnd is town, they should know 100% that you are scum. Because a town bell vote on a town you would have been a scum win. I am unclear why they seem apprehensive on that tbh.

Nvm, kept reading and saw where unwnd adjusted their stance a bit in post 780

[unwnd]

That's because I'm still not sure what hte right play is. Whilst I'm pretty sure you're 1 of the scum, I can absolutely see where Luke is going with not wanting to have me have to make a call in F3. If we're executing Unwnd today then I shouldn't share my reads bc that gives mafia more info, and if we arent then obviously I should because we're making the call today, and I'm just not sure what direction town is heading. I'd love to hear from Egix on this.

I'm not sure either, especially in light of a few things that has brung up. Regardless of my own misunderstandings, do you feel any different about me in comparison to Bell?

[Lukewarm]

I would like a more definitive stance from Lukewarm at the least as to why he thinks Ivyeo is town, and I've noted that you still townread her but it's not golden or anything.

If they were mafia, they would have a partner, who I am pretty sure would be trying to give them some help and direction. They seem very unsure on what stances to take, and I feel like that would have softened at some point if they were in a mafia chat with a partner helping them. But they feel kind of alone.

I did an ISO read on Ivy, specifially looking for any kind of change in their play style when they could have potentially gained a new partner, either saudade->bell or endlessdark->fferyllt, and did not see any indication that they had gained a new perspective in their mafia chat.

Then Clasko said he was feeling the same way (Ivy feeling partnerless), and him feeling that way validated my own read.

And now, bell's vote on fferylt has proven that it could not be

bell

you+Ivy, further wittling away at the possibility of Ivy being mafia in my mind.

I really, really don't think it could be Ivy, but if I were to entertain the idea, they would have to be partnered with fferyllt, which further locks it down in my mind that fferyllt is the best vote today. And if the day does play out with us voting fferyllt, I guess you can try to make the case that it is Ivy over you tomorrow lol.

[Lukewarm]

I'm just not sure what direction town is heading. I'd love to hear from Egix on this.

1,000 times this

[Egix96]

That's because I'm still not sure what hte right play is. Whilst I'm pretty sure you're 1 of the scum, I can absolutely see where Luke is going with not wanting to have me have to make a call in F3. If we're executing Unwnd today then I shouldn't share my reads bc that gives mafia more info, and if we arent then obviously I should because we're making the call today, and I'm just not sure what direction town is heading. I'd love to hear from Egix on this.

The difference is that I am conftown whereas you are not quite (although you are consensus town, you're not peeked) so I am the kill by default.

[Egix96]

Progress update: I have made notes on the first 15 pages so far.
I was feeling tempted to just spoiler them all and say "No Peeking" but nah, people would just be cheeky and look anyway.
What I will say, though, is that there's a certain person I've talked myself into thinking is scum. It's figuring out who's the other one that's the harder part.

[unwnd]

You'd be at the same place I am then egix. It might sound selfish but I'd really love to peer into your mind here even if you're cop cleared

[unwnd]

I'm willing to try and explain myself further if anything I've said so far is still a bit confusing

[fferyllt]

I feel recovered from the vaccine so I'll be getting back into this in a more organized way today.

[unwnd]

Happy to hear it!

[Lukewarm]

Progress update: I have made notes on the first 15 pages so far.
I was feeling tempted to just spoiler them all and say "No Peeking" but nah, people would just be cheeky and look anyway.
What I will say, though, is that there's a certain person I've talked myself into thinking is scum. It's figuring out who's the other one that's the harder part.

Holding back makes some sense, but I do wish you would do more to lead the conversation, even without revealing your roles yet. While you are playing reserved, it feels like the mafia is getting a lot of leeway to lead the town conversations, and that is not a great feeling imo. Maybe you could pose questions for each of us to answer? That way you could lead the conversation without giving anything away.

With you and Ivy both being quiet, I just feel so outnumbered in the conversation

[fferyllt]

I'll try again.

I would like for you to analyze Bell making that play.

Do you think he purposefully made a bad play, because he knew he was replacing out?

I think he may have felt cornered by the gamestate and likely having to 1v1 me* today. and while real life forced his hand he really wasn't enjoying this game. I just didn't feel his usual energy and curiosity in his posts. So, not purposely a bad play, but maybe not thinking it out, and maybe his partner thinks it would have been easy to get a second vote on me. You and Ivy both forgoing that makes me think that one of you must be town if Bell is scum. This is super likely IMO, and I'm really having trouble getting my head around unwnd's tack since replacing in. Hopefully I'm in a better place today to figure that out.

* not all that relevant except to me, but notching up a me-miselim has been on a few bucket lists for a while. I don't think it's on Bell's bucket list just because of how he views his scum game (as being subpar). So a 1v1 with me wouldn't be something he relishes, IMO.

Do you think he did not think about the fact that making that vote would out him as scum?

I think he did it with his partner's buy-in or he wouldn't have done it at all. So, that partner, who isn't a super experienced player, but has a decent grasp of how the game works, thought it was a good move.

Do you think that he was being strategic with that vote. attempting to help his partner as much as he could before exiting the game?

ding ding ding!

If you decide that it is option 3, I would like you to also answer the question: in making that play, who does it help?

I don't think it helps. I think it was a miscalculation, though maybe not a huge one.

Does it help or make it harder for me to get what I want? (For Egix to push todays vote on either you or me)

I am not going to speculate on what egix is thinking or may do. I have confidence he'll play to town wincon, and do so effectively.
Does it help or make it harder for you to get what you you? (For Egix to push todays vote on Bell)[/quote]

Another question I came up with since my original post:
Imagine we follow your lead; vote bell today, and enter into Day 4 with you, me, and Ivy. Do you think Bell's vote against you today make Ivy more likely to vote me or to vote you Day 4?

Depends on if she's town or scum. My bad feeling about tomorrow is that you could be town and you're probably going to vote me immediately. Then I have to decide whether to cross-vote or not. If Ivy's scum it doesn't matter what I do in that scenario, and if she's not, I hope we can find each other before then.