newbie 2060: creatures, game ofer

[fferyllt]

Does it help or make it harder for you to get what you you? (For Egix to push todays vote on Bell)

Screwed that bit up. I hope it makes it easier, but more importantly, I hope I'm right. If I'm not, then this day likely ends with a town loss.

[fferyllt]

Luke, part of what puts me off about you is that you express such singleminded confidence that I'm scum and you've solved the game.

I know tunneling is a thing, and it's not the first time I've been tunneled, but the singlemindedness of it in a situation where a miselim loses the game today is over the top enough that I'm having difficulty reevaluating YOU. Every time I start thinking about how Ivy's play has an opaqueness to it that's troubling, that thought trail gets sidetracked by the sheer intensity of your tunneling, and whether that's something a logical (based on your own posts) player would do here.

Tunneling is something that town and scum both do. Look no further than how Demainer was tunneled on Ivy to a similar degree on day 2.

[schadd_]

Spoiler:

vote count 3.2

not voting (5):

Lukewarm, fferyllt, Ivyeo, Egix96, unwnd

with 5 alive, it takes 3 to eliminate a player. day 3 ends april 26th at 16:30 central US time; in (expired on 2021-04-26 16:30:00)

mod notes

• ooba

[/area]

[Lukewarm]

Luke, part of what puts me off about you is that you express such singleminded confidence that I'm scum and you've solved the game.

I know tunneling is a thing, and it's not the first time I've been tunneled, but the singlemindedness of it in a situation where a miselim loses the game today is over the top enough that I'm having difficulty reevaluating YOU. Every time I start thinking about how Ivy's play has an opaqueness to it that's troubling, that thought trail gets sidetracked by the sheer intensity of your tunneling, and whether that's something a logical (based on your own posts) player would do here.

Tunneling is something that town and scum both do. Look no further than how Demainer was tunneled on Ivy to a similar degree on day 2.

Is it really tunneling, when I have considered all the options? And posted my thoughts on all of the options as well?

From my PoV, the only possible options are: [you+unwnd] [you+Ivy] [unwnd+Ivy]

I considered all of them, and from my PoV [you+unwnd] makes the most sense to me, [you+Ivy] has the slimmest of chances of being possible, but then [unwnd+Ivy] makes the least amount of sense. That would mean Bell made a game losing play when they were well on track to winning. Like they could have just sat back an won the game.

Once I drop that from consideration, my only options left are[you+unwnd] or [you+Ivy]
So from my PoV, either way, it just has to be you.

I am pretty sure that it is unwnd over Ivy as your partner, but when we walk into day 4, I will give unwnd a shot to try and convince me otherwise (but I admit, that will be an uphill battle).

Spoiler:

and didn't you come into day 3 with "singleminded confidence" that bell was scum?

[Ivyeo]

That thought trail gets sidetracked by the sheer intensity of your tunneling, and whether that's something a logical (based on your own posts) player would do here.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say here, are you suggesting that Luke's tunnel is illogical and therefore contradictory to the rest of his play?

[fferyllt]

Luke, part of what puts me off about you is that you express such singleminded confidence that I'm scum and you've solved the game.

I know tunneling is a thing, and it's not the first time I've been tunneled, but the singlemindedness of it in a situation where a miselim loses the game today is over the top enough that I'm having difficulty reevaluating YOU. Every time I start thinking about how Ivy's play has an opaqueness to it that's troubling, that thought trail gets sidetracked by the sheer intensity of your tunneling, and whether that's something a logical (based on your own posts) player would do here.

Tunneling is something that town and scum both do. Look no further than how Demainer was tunneled on Ivy to a similar degree on day 2.

Is it really tunneling, when I have considered all the options? And posted my thoughts on all of the options as well?

Yeah, it absolutely can be tunneling.

From my PoV, the only possible options are: [you+unwnd] [you+Ivy] [unwnd+Ivy]

I considered all of them, and from my PoV [you+unwnd] makes the most sense to me, [you+Ivy] has the slimmest of chances of being possible, but then [unwnd+Ivy] makes the least amount of sense. That would mean Bell made a game losing play when they were well on track to winning. Like they could have just sat back an won the game.

Once I drop that from consideration, my only options left are[you+unwnd] or [you+Ivy]
So from my PoV, either way, it just has to be you.

Then your pov is flawed. And I have to figure out if it's flawed because you're wrong town, or scum pursuing a miselim. Even if I figure that out, it may not be enough for town to win at this point. 3-2 is extremely chancy imo.

I am pretty sure that it is unwnd over Ivy as your partner, but when we walk into day 4, I will give unwnd a shot to try and convince me otherwise (but I admit, that will be an uphill battle).

Spoiler:

and didn't you come into day 3 with "singleminded confidence" that bell was scum?

I did come into day 3 with singleminded confidence, and just about the only thing that could have made me even more certain happened: bell voted me and replaced out.

And then unwnd's play has come from such left field that I'm rethinking everything again.

I don't think it will change my opinion on unwnd, but it can't hurt to look again.

I need to go back through and really look at your case for being so certain it's me/unwnd. I need to get past "lolnope", but it does boggle my mind that you see partnery stuff between me/bell in particular.

On day 2, if we were the scum team, there was just no reason to cross-bus. we could have cooperated in getting a miselim, and I think I'm a good enough scum player to do that without leaving partner tracks all over a game. It's one of the few things I feel like I do well as scum.

[fferyllt]

That thought trail gets sidetracked by the sheer intensity of your tunneling, and whether that's something a logical (based on your own posts) player would do here.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say here, are you suggesting that Luke's tunnel is illogical and therefore contradictory to the rest of his play?

Logic-based rethinking is one of the things players can do to avoid getting themselves tunneled about another player.

Luke's play is logic-based and I'm trying to figure out why his tunnel is so intense given that.

I'm falling back on a mindset that's usually my baseline in games. I've gotten tilted, and I'm trying to find equilibrium again. My usual mindset is to look at play and see if I can see a town mindset in it. Even if someone's dead wrong or completely antithetical to what I'm thinking, it can still be a town mindset.

[Lukewarm]

That thought trail gets sidetracked by the sheer intensity of your tunneling, and whether that's something a logical (based on your own posts) player would do here.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say here, are you suggesting that Luke's tunnel is illogical and therefore contradictory to the rest of his play?

Logic-based rethinking is one of the things players can do to avoid getting themselves tunneled about another player.

Luke's play is logic-based and I'm trying to figure out why his tunnel is so intense given that.

I'm falling back on a mindset that's usually my baseline in games. I've gotten tilted, and I'm trying to find equilibrium again. My usual mindset is to look at play and see if I can see a town mindset in it. Even if someone's dead wrong or completely antithetical to what I'm thinking, it can still be a town mindset.

From my PoV, the only way it can not be you, is if it is [unwnd+ivy]. Unless there is a really good case made for the the [unwnd+Ivy] pair, there is not really a reason for me to take you out of the center of my suspicions.

If you want to call that tunneling, go for it I guess

[Lukewarm]

There is more backing it up them my own reads (which I have scum read you for a while tbh)

You were also Clasko's first pick for us to vote out yesterday

I've made my decision:

VOTE: fferyllt

Egix made a case for your slot having to be scum before you even replaced in.

VOTE: Endlessdark slot

And then even you argued against the idea that you could be town from my PoV.

I'm about 99.9% sure of Bell. The probability of Ivy-scum with Bell is incredibly low.

And I don't see Ivy or Unwnd making a case that they are a scum team either.

So I have my own reads / Clasko's read / Egix's day 2 logic / even your own logic to go on.

There are no signs pointing to a Ivy+Unwnd team, but an awful lot of signs all pointed at you.

[fferyllt]

Luke, what was your thought process here?

...

I am not really happy with any of Ahri's posts. They have not said anything substantial, and half of their messages are memeing about being scum.

So I feel like there are two possibilities, they are scum trying to hide behind the meme of it all, or they are a town player that is not actually contributing to finding the mafia...

I am actually leaning more towards them being an unhelpful town, but either way, I don't like it...

VOTE: Ahri

[fferyllt]

@Ivy

What do you think about Dem, Ivyeo?
And what do you think about me, Ahri?

Dem is a lean scum for me. They were pushing pretty strong on Wheme, but their most recent post was them doubting their Wheme read, followed by silence as our votes still aren't coming to a majority. I'd like to hear where they want to go now whilst we're still not fully unified.

Were these the reasons why you were scumreading Demainer late Day 1?

[unwnd]

Ffery I'm still waiting on your assessment on me. Bell is Bell but we're not the same people. Why haven't you considered he was potentially just having an off game?

[fferyllt]

@Ivy who was the townlean?

VOTE: Ahri

Town lean. With the clarification that his feelings haven't changed the inactivity is fine.

[Ivyeo]

@Ivy

What do you think about Dem, Ivyeo?
And what do you think about me, Ahri?

Dem is a lean scum for me. They were pushing pretty strong on Wheme, but their most recent post was them doubting their Wheme read, followed by silence as our votes still aren't coming to a majority. I'd like to hear where they want to go now whilst we're still not fully unified.

Were these the reasons why you were scumreading Demainer late Day 1?

For that bit yeah, however 272 was me saying that I liked his response enough to put him back to town lean, though his play the next day shifted him back again.

[fferyllt]

Ffery I'm still waiting on your assessment on me. Bell is Bell but we're not the same people. Why haven't you considered he was potentially just having an off game?

I have considered that. I just have a lot of trouble with him misreading me like he did here. We've played together in most of my games since I came off hiatus.

What was your method/process for getting into this game?

[fferyllt]

@Ivy

What do you think about Dem, Ivyeo?
And what do you think about me, Ahri?

Dem is a lean scum for me. They were pushing pretty strong on Wheme, but their most recent post was them doubting their Wheme read, followed by silence as our votes still aren't coming to a majority. I'd like to hear where they want to go now whilst we're still not fully unified.

Were these the reasons why you were scumreading Demainer late Day 1?

For that bit yeah, however 272 was me saying that I liked his response enough to put him back to town lean, though his play the next day shifted him back again.

Can you explain why going from strongly pushing Wheme to doubting their read struck you as scummy?

[fferyllt]

Spoiler:

d1 final vote count

WhemeStar (5):

Demainer

,

Ahri

, endlessdark, Ivyeo, Lukewarm

Ahri (3):

Saudade,

WhemeStar

,

Egix96

not voting (1):

Clasko

with 9 alive, it took 5 to eliminate a player.

unwnd, what are your thoughts on this elim-vc?

[unwnd]

Ffery I'm still waiting on your assessment on me. Bell is Bell but we're not the same people. Why haven't you considered he was potentially just having an off game?

I have considered that. I just have a lot of trouble with him misreading me like he did here. We've played together in most of my games since I came off hiatus.

What was your method/process for getting into this game?

When I replace in I try and offer up some perspectives I felt were missing, and I would even say I have a tendency to join games I think will be more difficult. As for why that is? I don't go in saying 'my presence will dramatically shift the outcome of this game' rather I go 'I'm reading along and I think everyone is missing something that I wish I could say' then I replace in.

[fferyllt]

Ffery I'm still waiting on your assessment on me. Bell is Bell but we're not the same people. Why haven't you considered he was potentially just having an off game?

I have considered that. I just have a lot of trouble with him misreading me like he did here. We've played together in most of my games since I came off hiatus.

What was your method/process for getting into this game?

When I replace in I try and offer up some perspectives I felt were missing, and I would even say I have a tendency to join games I think will be more difficult. As for why that is? I don't go in saying 'my presence will dramatically shift the outcome of this game' rather I go 'I'm reading along and I think everyone is missing something that I wish I could say' then I replace in.

you were reading along?

[unwnd]

Spoiler:

d1 final vote count

WhemeStar (5):

Demainer

,

Ahri

, endlessdark, Ivyeo, Lukewarm

Ahri (3):

Saudade,

WhemeStar

,

Egix96

not voting (1):

Clasko

with 9 alive, it took 5 to eliminate a player.

unwnd, what are your thoughts on this elim-vc?

Scum are voting together on false pretenses. I'll never be able to ask endlessdark what happened here but you made me wanna go look at Lukewarm's progression towards your slot (and if he has been just on you this whole time)

[fferyllt]

He wasn't scumreading endlessdark on day 1.

Clasko/Ivy/Wheme were his day 1 scumreads. He didn't follow the movement to Ahri.

[unwnd]

Ffery I'm still waiting on your assessment on me. Bell is Bell but we're not the same people. Why haven't you considered he was potentially just having an off game?

I have considered that. I just have a lot of trouble with him misreading me like he did here. We've played together in most of my games since I came off hiatus.

What was your method/process for getting into this game?

When I replace in I try and offer up some perspectives I felt were missing, and I would even say I have a tendency to join games I think will be more difficult. As for why that is? I don't go in saying 'my presence will dramatically shift the outcome of this game' rather I go 'I'm reading along and I think everyone is missing something that I wish I could say' then I replace in.

you were reading along?

Only around the point where Bell replaces out, which made me go back a bit further. I skimmed your case against Bell but his snap reaction to me felt like a greater offense than anything else. Then you two just went back and forth

[fferyllt]

I'm not sure what you mean by snap reaction.

[unwnd]

Ffery if you can just believe me whether you think it or not I think you struck gold with Lukewarm's discrepancy towards Ivyeo

[unwnd]

I'm not sure what you mean by snap reaction.

I think Bell much like anyone else has an ego. Nobody likes to be misread as town, especially in a situation where you know someone. In his mind I think he was convinced you must be scum because you were unable to see that he was town. That behavior isn't even revolutionary, and something I've seen Bell do a ton of times as town.