Newbie 2061 | Views of Tallinn | Town wins

[VFP]

VFP, thoughts onmarci?

228 is a good post from town mind set plus pushing the game forward, but majority of their posting is just fence sitting and safe for me.
I can go into more detail if you want though but I'd rather lim here than Catboi from my bottom 3.

I'll try to read marcistar and pears isos by tonight so I can try and understand the push on them.

It kinda surprises me that VFP has T3 as a strong town read, I'm mostly aprehensive by T3 playstyle. The way he hastly wrote VFP off as an unreadable player rubbed me the wrong way.

You can tell me why T3 is scum for you.
I'm not sure if T3 was being serious on me being unreadable as I'm sure they can have views on my playstyle.

I think t3's lil push for jailor to out is kinda scummy, also how he hammered norwegianboyee so soon after he entered the game... just feels like he didn't wanna give the effort to give in depth reads

What makes Pear town for you?
If NM hammered yesterday would that be scummy like T3 knowing how Nm plays?

Taking a shot somewhere between Marci/N_M today does seem like a solid idea to me and I think their flips would be telling on the other's alignment, especially red ones.

Whats you're reason on either?

This post doesn't really change my mind on Pear. The only real point against Pear I agree with is the lack of interaction/ignoring others, I do wish they had talked more directly. Calling Pear's early posts fluff or empty is extremely weak to me considering they were some of the meatiest content we had up to that point. You can always put on conf bias glasses on a reread and see the scumminess in posts and I can see why you think some of the things you do, but it doesn't really click to me. Shooting Pear today seems like a bad call.
Oh actually another point that makes sense is the scum team versatility and while that is true, I can't justify going after someone who looks town otherwise just because of this.

I strongly disagree with this and feel that Pear is scum. If that early posting is classed as meaty then scum have been getting a free ride so far. But there's a chance I'm wrong and there's another scum to hit so I am willing to reasons where to go.

I haven't liked Marci's recent posts and considering the pressure being put on her, I'll go ahead and ISO her.

I'll VOTE:

Not_Mafia

for now since I like having my vote somewhere

I'm not liking this if Marci is scum, but I'm sure a follow up will ease my thoughts here.

Ask me things then...? I don't check the thread often anymore since i've been a bit busy with classes and such lately, but i'll still see it.. I can reply to whatever you ask

Why didn't you vote Norwee yesterday?

Pear has had a lack of interaction but has been posting content.

What parts are content? Because I have been through Pear's ISO a few times now and I don't see anything of the sort, that's not forced or just plain empty.

516 won't quote for me on phone for some reason so I'll do a separate post here.

[Not_Mafia]

Scum is in samawoodo, meuh and catboi, you heard it here first folks

[VFP]

Spoiler: Pear 516

1. Yes, if you read my scumgame you'll find that I similarly overexplain when I make a post I feel is important. That's what I said, except you're convienently leaving out that I did the same thing in my towngame. That was my point. If it's something I do all the time, is it a scumread? I don't really think that's the case.
2. Um, yes. It would've looked good if Norwee had flipped red...? The way you're saying it it seems like you're mocking me for having that mentality, but that isn't even what I said. This is the sort of thing that's making me wonder whether you're on the level or not. I don't feel like town would push half-truths and intentional misinterpretations so hard.
3. Everyone did have a lot of empty posts day one...? You're acting like it's a silly thing to say, but it's true. If everyone's doing something in a game, you can't single someone out and say it's AI for them.
4. It's not OMGUS because in spite of your questionable behavior while scumhunting, I don't actually think you're scum as of right now. I didn't SR Sama, and that's affecting my opinion of your slot. After all, if I want to call you mafia, I have to be able to justify what I've seen out of Sama as a mafia player. Maybe another read'll change that but as of now I think you're okay.

I'll answer your questions, but I just want to put it out there that I'm fully aware you're asking it less for my actual insight and more to get ideas about who my partner is, because you've

totally caught me.

Marcistar- If Marci is mafia then likely N-M is also. She defended him from the notion of a policy vote early on, and town!marci might do that, but scum!marci would be pretty unlikely to unless N-M is her partner. As for her own work, I stand by my prior assessment that I can't really remember much that she's done, despite at this moment she has 48 posts, which is the fourth most in the thread. I take notes on other players when something pings me (although I'll fully admit this past week I've been pretty busy/lazy about this game) and I don't really have all that much about her. I'd somewhat forgotten she was playing. That's bad.

Catboi- Upon glancing back over Cat's meta I'm fairly sure he's town at this point. I didn't like his lack of posting at the beginning of the game but he really opened up and started putting in some work. He questioned my theory when it started catching on, he wanted to slow things down and get as much information out of Norwee as possible at the end of the day. I like the push on marci at this moment. As mentioned above, it makes sense, it's just not something I ever noticed. She flew beneath my radar.

I think Marci's a good place to look today. VOTE: Marcistar
It really isn't helping that she's not around now.

1. So Newbie 2022 I din't realise was completed as it hasn't been added to the title. But I'll go over this one as well then, the first thing that I notice is the below though.

Town game first post.

WELL WELL WELL, LOOKEE WHOS HERE
VOTE: SjReaver

How was your week? :p

Scum game first post.

Sorry for being late, I've been doing work related slideshow "training" for my new job and it's taking way longer than I thought. GLHF everyone!

SJreaver, are you new too? That claim was a little weird.
In post 13, mujie wrote:
In post 9, GuiltyLion wrote:
VOTE: Pearofcubs


Are you just voting for everyone who hasn't replied yet in the hopes that they end up replying?


Maybe? As I understand it, borderline random votes are pretty normal early on.

Here first post.

Hey everyone! Sorry I'm a little late.
For those who don't know me already, this is my third game after a pretty long (half a year-ish?) break. If anyone wants, I can give my entire playing history for examining. Don't know how much it'll help since there's not a lot there and I took a huge break.
Now that that's done, let's get right into the thoughtful and logical analysis, shall we?

So I noticed, if you take marcistar, put the c on top of the r, and drop several other letters, what do you get? maFia. Kind of.

marcistar, how do you respond to this compelling and legitimate evidence?

Also, Norweigianboy, two things- first, is there a shorter name I can use? NB, Nor, NBoy maybe?
I'll check his history for myself in a little bit, but do you have a game you can offer for what you're saying about Not-Mafia's meta? I'd be interested in having a look even if his games are similar.

Your start of game post is much more like your scum game than your town game. I'll give these games a decent read though otherwise I won't use them as AI.

2. I wasn't mocking you at all. I was stating a point that it would be good if it was a red flip, it was a green flip so there is no argument because it shows that you were wrong. Now it's down to determine if your push was fake or not. This is no discredit if you're town either as town can be wrong, but me stating that there is plausible scum motive to pushing there.
If this was a red flip I'd have you as locktown.

3. I don't like this deflection although I see where you are coming from. What you are forgetting is that my case isn't built around you having empty reads, that's a part of it. In a game like this with only 20 pages on day 2 (although I'm not sure on Newbie meta post levels) scum are going to want to let it flow. I agree that there are others with lack of anything day1, but I wouldn't say everyone by any means.

4. This is how I read it. I can see that as a replace in scum being worried to target before getting a feel of their play. Maybe I'm wrong, that's why I'm going to focus you today and see how I feel.

The fact your mindset is that I want to know your opinions on these 3 players because I am trying to find your scum buddy makes me think I may be right.
I have already said that there are a lot of people that can be scum with you on a red flip and I haven't narrowed it down at all. You telling me what you think of these lets me look at your interactions day 1 with or about them and decide if it's fake or not. It also lets me see if I'm right or wrong on these slots and to get a better understanding to view in the game.

I like the view on Marci directly. I found them a player that I had to go back to a lot to remember what was said.
Marci / NM isn't a thing here, otherwise you believe that the entire wagon was town.
What's your view on NM too?

Catboi I disagree with strongly here. 442 is instantly trying to shade T3, and is the only comment today that isn't just a safe comment, and even that has now been left with adding T3 in 482 as uncertain (along with NM who were both in the scum pool previously?)

Why did you miss off iN3krO in your reads?

[Meuh]

Time for some Marci analysis

Took from a much smaller sample of posts this time cause there's no need for more than this to show this issue with Marci's gameplay
Also had to remove a bunch of emojis to make this fit within the emoji limit, and I cut out some parts of the posts which weren't relevant to what I'm trying to point out to make this post easier to read!

Spoiler:

Meuh -

slight town

As of right now, nothing meuh has done stands out as different from the other games I have played onsite with her (where she's always been town so far). Though I'll still be keeping out my eye for her

Establishes she feels decent about me so far
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1. I like the way Catboi's been playing lately
2. I don't trust myself to make decisions rn, my thoughts are all over the place
3. I'd rather play without N_M over anyone else

VOTE:

Not_Mafia

Also purely off activity, Ink and Catboi gone, at this game pace and at their activity would just not be great.
Tori was kinda just my natural conclusion of where to vote at first, not very active + I don't feel too strongly on them + there's already a vote there so forming a counter-wagon from Catboi and Ink sounds best on them

So to sum it up
"buddy catboi"..?

BOOM huge tonal shift. I vote N_M and instead of acknowledging my arguments, Marci discredits me and my post by pointing out my buddying behaviour towards Catboi. This is chainsawing (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... aw_Defense) if I've ever seen it.
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The easy way to play this for scum Meuh here would be to vote Ink and defend Catboi, unless you think me and Ink are the team.

Hmm, not sure exactly what I think.. I just thought to mention that you followed so quick after catboi without a doubt.. you said you liked his recent posts, but you have

that

much trust in him..? That stood out when I read it.

are you suggesting you x in3kor is the team

Fine as justification for her push on me
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I mean this is also an excuse not to play with N_M anymore, which does sound pretty nice.

poor not_mafia always getting dragged

This post makes me kinda feel like she may be trying to pocket N_M, not necessarily scummates with him
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I'm not seeing how could we follow-up on day 2 or what would NM's flip tell us (thought that's what he wants with his gameplan, I think).

I agree with what in3kros saying here, the not_mafia wagon just seems icky to me tbh...
meuh & catboi, is ur plans to base the next day off the nk..? I don't think a not_mafia flip would give much.. no matter what he flips, I don't see a useful piece of info from him.

Meuh's 255 - I feel like not_mafia gets more serious as the game needs it... unless if im remembering wrong..?
this just seems like too easy of an elim to be going for.

So once again, casting serious doubt on me and Catboi for pushing for an easy elim.
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Again, same question to you: Do you believe there's someone else who flipping is supposed to provide more information?

I don't see how peoples positioning on not_mafia would show information about them, since not_mafia is so easy wouldn't everyone just have an easy excuse..?
I think flipping you will make meuh/samawoodoo clearer for me idk if that would work for others too but I don't like how meuh acts with you!!! (and the way samawoodoo acted in 256 kinda gives me similar vibes to what vibes i got from meuh).
How is not_mafia subtly acting different btw...? It's too hard to read them

I mean I don't really think N_M is mafia
Like I don't townread him but I'm not >50% on him being scum, not even >40%. I'm getting to the demotivated "I just wanna get through this" stage that I've hit in other games before and I'm just trying to make the game better for day 2. I should probably sit down and try to form stronger reads/reread posts but my brain is all over the place and I can't settle down on a reasonable thought process. I just want day 2 to be productive

I understand what you're trying to say here, but I disagree. I would prefer we keep as much town alive as possible,
what info did you say you would learn from not_mafia elim?

Marci says she has a hard time reading N_M. I think this sets up a pretty easy defense in the future if her and N_M were scum/scum, as she can just go "well he was being pushed as a policy elim, I didn't actually townread him, I just didn't agree with the logic behind it" and get away with it.
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Are you actually interested in flipping me? How is that supposed to give information on those two?

If you think Meuh is a better vote, that's fine, I've already said I don't oppose it.

Explain what bothered you about that Samawoodo post?

Like, if I had to pick between the wagons you would be the one i'm most interested in. But this was before norwegienboyees vote on meuh.
(I feel like I need to vote within somewhere thats already voted, because not alot of people are budging, and we need info from a flip.)

Well, meuhs buddying you, and samawoodoos buddying her is how I see it.
So I think generally in most cases, scum wouldn't be buddying scum.
so like if ur scum, meuhs not. if ur town, meuhs not. thats what i was originally thinking but when i think more idk but i still dont like meuh following after you so easily, I don't see a reason for her to.

so then like to explain about samawoodoo, it just seems like he did that because meuh has those kind of thoughts also. (like meuh said ur more townie... and then samawoodoo says ur more townie..) though he could just see meuh as a really townie town leader I guess..?
it just sort of seems like... not really buddying actually but... having too similar thoughts to her..?

The bolded bit seems to have a jump in logic. You say you can't see scum/scum buddying being likely, but never establish why buddying has to be town/scum. I don't see why my buddying-like behaviour makes me and catboi being town/town unlikely. Or Sama's behaviour making me and him being town/town unlikely. Or all 3 of us being town! I'd love elaboration on why you don't think these buddying pairs can be town/town.

I'm editing a video rn so pray I don't lag too much while typing this.

I probably should've explained more in the OG post, but like
I feel like the way you interacted lately doesn't seem townie, though there might be many factors in that like my hella bad memory, which is why I didn't push it too hard.

thats what i was originally thinking but when i think more idk

in my post, shows how im a bit uncertain about it.
To me, catboi doesn't feel like the type of person you would usually buddy which is why ur buddying rn seems scummy imo
Like you usually buddy people who are strong town leaders (who lead for like the whole phase..?) but catboi doesn't seem much like that. Like I can bring up examples of when you've done this out of site, but when i think about meuh x ?????, all I remember is leaders, not floaters. (does that wording make sense>>???")
I think partly I by accident convinced myself that you have to be scum

but like thats the reasons for how you might be scum, but if ur town heres how catboi fits as scum: he doesn't seem that opposed to your actual buddying...? like i got the vibes he was opposed to other parts of you, which in my eyes means he wants you to follow his lead, but also wants to leave his options to pushing you open.
tho maybe im misunderstanding, but this is what I originally thought.

for the samawoodoo stuff: like, he just seems to be doing alot of what you are..? which is why i kinda thought meuh + samawoodoo might be the scumteam. (like meuh doing stuff, and samawoodoo being inexperienced scum, so he just copies what his partner (meuh) does.)

i hope this helps..?

So she establishes she dislikes the Catboi/Meuh/Sama trio's buddying and follwing of each other and thinks there's likely scum in that group
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wait also heres my VOTE: meuh

i think my heads broken reading meuh is always so hard for me

Pre-justifying my green flip
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Catboi was the strongest town leader at that point though. Norwee dropped in actual leading of the game and of activity and had me less and less convinced of his innocence and had pushed on me significantly. I felt better about Pear, but they hadn't said anything in a while so they weren't actively leading either.

This setup against me, Catboi and Sama all at once makes me think Marci/Norwee as our team isn't all too unlikely
Marci knows she can get away with pushing me with meta reasoning, so considering the pressure being put on Norwee, this isn't surprising.

Marci how are you feeling about Norwee?

Catboi isn't the "strongest town leader" imo, maybe like.. at most a townie townie, but he doesn't radiate "leader" vibes. (imo) its fine if you see him as a town leader, but i dont really so I guess thats just a difference we have.

I still feel as if norwegianboyees town, who just got disinterested due to the game going nowhere.

Why can't they be town who is townreading me correctly?

she could be, but when I think about it I don't believe it. I could always be wrong

That's an interesting point about Sama repeating opinions. Do you have other examples of this?

Huhhh im so confused, I remembered seeing it before... but now that i'm reading back..
I think it held more weight in my mind at the time, but now doesn't hold as much weight. Their very beginning of the game together.
Also when he was like

in3kro D1 is starting to be kinda sus,

At the time it felt very much like a copy of others.. though I guess not strictly Meuh..? IDK why I remember these things as linked to meuh I think it's because he said that soon after meuh said "maybe slight scum lean" or something like that.

Like, if we vote out nowee or Meuh and they flip town it's going to be incredibly annoying that we removed an active contributor to the game because people were too afraid to vote a lurker.

Ahh, I didn't really think of it in this way.. I don't really think about activity levels often

Maybe I'm just tunneling meuh too much, but I'll be going to bed (soonish..? i'll be awake but not on my laptop so no more playing )... there'll be time tommorow right..? When I wake up, if votes aren't moving around I'll vote not_mafia with you guys. I don't think he's a good vote at all, but we do need a flip. praying I have a clearer mind tmmrw

So Marci scumreads me pretty heavily, even says she may be tunneling. Then she doesn't mention me again, until...
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Really? What are your reads right now?

I think t3's lil push for jailor to out is kinda scummy, also how he hammered norwegianboyee so soon after he entered the game... just feels like he didn't wanna give the effort to give in depth reads
Otherwise, i'm not really sure.. but I think vfp feel kinda weird idk how to explain well, but like... well I just don't really like what he's done so far. since I townread pearofclubs, his read on them didn't really sit right with me originally. His thoughts could be valid tho, since he has an outsiders pov on it and wasn't there in the moments.. But idk it just seems to be pushing at really nothing..? Pearofclubs would be such an easy push for a scum to make without getting blood on their hands, since they're majorly townread.

So like my order would prob be t3 -> vfp -> catboi -> not mafia -> pearofclubs -> meuh

and now I'm the person she wants elimed the least??? What??? There's absolutely no discernable train of logic from Marci on this read and I don't see any reason as to why (town) Marci would now feel this way. Norwee's flip doesn't do anything to clear me or the people Marci thought I was likely teammates with (Catboi and the Samawoodo slot), the only thing that changed is that I was now more widely townread and I had expressed a pretty strong townread on her, which would make me more advantaegous for scum Marci not to push on. This makes 0 sense to me if she's town. Didn't she say she thought there was at least 1 scum within me and Catboi? and now he's third and I'm last on here. There's just no natural evolution to this read.
Also uh Marci forgot Ink on this list

So yeah in conclusion, Marci's train of logic on her read on the Catboi/me/Sama slot trio doesn't really make sense, especially her read on me. If Marci is elimed and flips red, N_M looks absolutely terrible, considering the way she handled the day. However, she still has plenty of possibilities for a teammate, as she wasn't heavily discussed yesterday (and therefore doesn't actually have much interactions we can POE scumpairs off of) and has been very non-confrontational. Her only day 1 vote was the one on me.
I think it's worth mentioning that Marci is generally a non-confrontational player, so it's not

too

scummy as to how she handled day 1, but I still think town!Marci would be slightly more aggressive than she was.

[marcistar]

What makes Pear town for you?
If NM hammered yesterday would that be scummy like T3 knowing how Nm plays?

I feel like pearofclubs posts had good intentions.
Knowing how not_mafia plays, I wouldn't think he was scummy if he hammered.

Why didn't you vote Norwee yesterday?

I didn't feel like he would flip scum.

Spoiler:

Also uh Marci forgot Ink on this list

Ahh whoopsies, I didn't notice that.. I think I would place them between pearofclubs and not_mafia on the list

So yeah in conclusion, Marci's train of logic on her read on the Catboi/me/Sama slot trio doesn't really make sense, especially her read on me. If Marci is elimed and flips red, N_M looks absolutely terrible, considering the way she handled the day. However, she still has plenty of possibilities for a teammate, as she wasn't heavily discussed yesterday (and therefore doesn't actually have much interactions we can POE scumpairs off of) and has been very non-confrontational. Her only day 1 vote was the one on me.
I think it's worth mentioning that Marci is generally a non-confrontational player, so it's not

too

scummy as to how she handled day 1, but I still think town!Marci would be slightly more aggressive than she was.

Ahh, I didn't think I feel like this, but I guess I do LOL.
I really townread you rn, because I thought of stuff during the night Clearer mind

so im not as badass as i am in my mind ??

[lendunistus]

catboi has been prodded.

[catboi]

I think t3's lil push for jailor to out is kinda scummy, also how he hammered norwegianboyee so soon after he entered the game... just feels like he didn't wanna give the effort to give in depth reads

I don't like how this feels like you're repeating something I already said earlier in the day.


I forgot newbie games are on a short prod timer. I'll be back with more later.

[VFP]

I don't like how this feels like you're repeating something I already said earlier in the day.

Do you still agree with it though?

[VFP]

Meuh is always town here for me.
Marci lim works for me and I think we just win with Meuh, T3, and iN3krO as town here.
Marci scum makes NM town and iN3krO is plausibly the partner for 513
Marci town just means 2 scum in Pear, Catboi, and NM

[Meuh]

1 day and 6 hours left, just so everyone knows.
Marci elim is fine with me, there's no one that I scumread more than her really, ISOing her made it clearer that she had a lack of scumhunting and odd tonal shifts which I don't really like. Idk if I feel confident we'll be seeing a red flip though, I think it's the most likely to have a red flip but I'm not >50% on it. We'll have to see ig.
With the lack of a death last night, tomorrow should be a whole lot easier if Marci does end up flipping town, since it'll be a 4v2 meaning less chance for scum's voices to overpower town's. Should also make it easier if she flips scum but I'm more concerned about potentially having 2 scum in the game on day 3.

[lendunistus]

Pearofclubs has been prodded.

Now seeking for a replacement for iN3krO.

[lendunistus]

Pearofclubs has been prodded.

Now seeking for a replacement for iN3krO.

The deadline will be frozen until a replacement is found.

[T3]

So many replacementa.

[T3]

VOTE: pear

[Meuh]

So many replacementa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

[T3]

So many replacementa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

[Pearofclubs]

Whoops. Time really got away from me there.
I've been really low energy lately, I'd say it's because I just got my shot but it's been happening before that, too.
...Actually, my focus usually gets bad day 2. I'll have to work on that if I want to keep playing. It's not fair to you guys.
I'll make an effort to participate between now and the deadline, if I'm still alive tomorrow I'll decide whether or not I should finish this game. Don't feel like it would be fair for me to swap out this close to the end of the day.
Anyway. I'll get caught up and post something of some substance

[Pearofclubs]

Marci scum makes NM town

What makes you say that? Curious, since I've had it the opposite for quite a while.
I feel like the unprovoked defense of N-M coupled with a case for pushing anyone who attacks him would make zero sense from scum!marci unless N-M was her partner.

[Pearofclubs]

Ask me things then...? I don't check the thread often anymore since i've been a bit busy with classes and such lately, but i'll still see it.. I can reply to whatever you ask

Believe me I understand not being around, I totally spaced out and ended up getting prodded for it

What're your reads as of right now? It'll be good to have the information around, should you end up flipping green today- and even if you don't get elimmed, it'll be good to have your thoughts on the books before the days end.

[lendunistus]

Lukewarm replaces iN3krO.

The deadline has been unfrozen.

[Meuh]

Welcome Lukewarm!

[Lukewarm]

Hello all!

I am going to take some time to read through the thread and I will try to build up a wall post of my thoughts as I work through it.

[lendunistus]

Lukewarm replaces iN3krO.

The deadline has been unfrozen.

Also, 12 hours have been added to the deadline.

I don’t know why I forgot that but eh

[Not_Mafia]

@mod Can we have a VC please

[marcistar]

What're your reads as of right now? It'll be good to have the information around, should you end up flipping green today- and even if you don't get elimmed, it'll be good to have your thoughts on the books before the days end.

How many votes am I at..? I'll claim if I need to, but i'm not sure if I need to now.. or if i should wait a bit longer..?

I think that t3 and vfp are scum.