Open 808: The Council Has Spoken

[yessiree]

@Yessiree, please vote for me, so that I can self hammer if I need to!

I'm not gonna vote you so you cannot do specifically that. Also don't self hammer as any alignment.

I am generally a strong believer in not voting for yourself, UNLESS the alternative is a no-elim, which is ofter worse for the town then a mis-elim

The issue with that is the basis that we are gonna lim me next if we are wrong about you. So from my pov that's obviously a failed plan from the start.

Except that is not how it should have played out.

If we voted me, then the council would track you. If the mafia kills, then you are 100% cleared. If the mafia no-kills, then we gained an extra free elimination. Yes, you would go into tomorrow undersuspicion, BUT we would have an extra miselim before we lost.

As is, we are going to go into tomorrow with me pushing pretty hard for you, so youre still under suspicion, but now we have not gained a free elimination.

...

We don't gain any free lims by elimming today. How is this so hard to understand? You get the same number of lims in a 1v5 and 1v6, sans any night action shenanigans.

And yes mafia can NK a conftown but we also generate one more conftown in the process, while also narrowing down the Poe.

[yessiree]

I am strongly getting the impression that you are valuing you personally not getting voted out over the town winning this game. Which obviously does not help me stop thinking you are scum...

Let's say we elim me, mafia kills nono, you are track cleared going into 1v4. I don't trust you enough or anyone else to find the last scum between the remaining players. At the same time, I don't think elimming you wins the game for town, so if one of Arte/BM/Raya is cleared, I also don't trust them enough to find the last scum either.

[Raya36]

But then Raya did not bite on the BM=scum line, and suggested instead that we vote Yes today followed by BM tomorrow. And Yessiree changed his tune, and started suggesting a no vote

Can't believe I missed this one earlier. It's not our fault the guy who's supposed to engage with us today kinda just dipped you know? It would've definitely cleared some stuff up between BM Raya and me, but it never happened. And speaking of Raya, what are you even scumreading me for? This is slothful

My problem is everyone is playing very town-like. I'm not even scumreading anyone in my pool. I just think by interactions you make the most sense as scum

Don't think that's an accurate assessment of the game state at all. But it looks like you've already made up your mind, and aren't willing to change that so whatever

It could still be BM, it could still be moz (but their interactions are way too close, it would be like they were blatantly saying they were partners). BM is in the council and I think you're more likely to flip scum than moz.

[Lukewarm]

...

We don't gain any free lims by elimming today. How is this so hard to understand? You get the same number of lims in a 1v5 and 1v6, sans any night action shenanigans.

And yes mafia can NK a conftown but we also generate one more conftown in the process, while also narrowing down the Poe.

Literally the elimination today would have been the free miselimination...

My point was that if we kill one of us, and the other is tracked, then EITHER, the mafia kills, and we enter MElo with both of the two of us no longer under suspicion, OR the mafia no kills because they do not want to clear us, and we gain an extra miselim.

D3: 1:6 -> miselim -> 1:5 .....

[

Lukewarm

+ Yessiree] under suspicion

N3: 1:5 ->Night kill -> 1:4 .....

[

Lukewarm

+

Yessiree

] under suspicion

D4: MElo

[We enter MElo, without either of us under suspicion]

We have 1 miselim

D3: 1:6 -> miselim -> 1:5 .....

[

Lukewarm

+ Yessiree] under suspicion

N3: 1:5 -> No NK -> 1:5 ......

[

Lukewarm

+ Yessiree] under suspicion

D4: 1:5 -> miselim -> 1:4 .....

[

Lukewarm

+

Yessiree

] under suspicion

N4: 1:4 -> Night Kill -> 1:3
D5: Elo

[We enter Elo without either of us under suspicion]

We have 2 miselim

Either way, we can deal with the PoE on both of us before we are out of miselim

If the vote does not pass from today (which I am still unclear on), then

D3: 1:6 -> noelim -> 1:6 .....

[Lukewarm + Yessiree] under suspicion

N3: 1:6 -> No NK -> 1:6 .....

[Lukewarm + Yessiree] under suspicion

D4: 1:6 -> Miselim -> 1:5 .....

[

Lukewarm

+ Yessiree] under suspicion

N4: 1:5 -> Night kill -> 1:4 (no one is cleared because we no longer have any abilities)
D5: MElo

[We enter MeEo, with one of us still alive, and under suspicion, so the mafia can use us as a scapegoat]

Let's say we elim me, mafia kills nono, you are track cleared going into 1v4. I don't trust you enough or anyone else to find the last scum between the remaining players. At the same time, I don't think elimming you wins the game for town, so if one of Arte/BM/Raya is cleared, I also don't trust them enough to find the last scum either.

1) if you had voted for me, then YOU would have been the one who would have been cleared, so you would not have had to rely on anyone else
2) I actually hate this mindset going into this game.

I play this game, assuming everyone is just as good as I am, so the best path forward is the path that gives the town the maximum amount of information to town, regardless of whether that leaves me at ELo or not. From what I am reading from you, you are willing to deprive the town of information if that means you get to live? That is very much anti-town...

Of course, seeing as how I am pretty sure you are scum, good on you for depriving town of information.

[yessiree]

You're saying the poe is between you and me like it's a matter of fact. Who decided it? You? Me? Raya and her "interaction clears"? Half the playerlist that's barely participating?

But you're right, I should've voted for you. I didn't because I hated voting someone who's openly claiming that he's gonna vote himself. So I admit that's my mistake. Chalk it up to Sunday late night 3 am panic posting.

[Lukewarm]

You're saying the poe is between you and me like it's a matter of fact. Who decided it? You? Me? Raya and her "interaction clears"? Half the playerlist that's barely participating?

But you're right, I should've voted for you. I didn't because I hated voting someone who's openly claiming that he's gonna vote himself. So I admit that's my mistake. Chalk it up to Sunday late night 3 am panic posting.

I think I have been pretty clear on how I did my PoE

Nono is tracker cleared
Arte and T3

BM

are basically cleaer imo because of Day 1. Almost50 tried to get both of them off the council, and then the two of them pushed out almost 50 in response.

I then openly admit that I just really town read Raya.

That just leaves me and you.

Why would I build my strategy around BM having possibly bussed Almost50, for seemingly no reason, on Day 1, when you are right here looking so scummy?

So when I saw an opportunity for us to gain definitive information on both me and you before we entered ELo, I pushed for that hard. Either the PoE is right, and we find the scum between the two of us, OR someone slipped through the PoE (like BM bussing Almost50 Day 1 for some reason) and we would know that we needed to consider things like that.

[yessiree]

And I've been saying that the poe is wrong, the poe is wrong, to you and to Raya, multiple times. Reconsider, no one listens. So here we are.

Nono is the only clear. No one else is cleared. Clearing Arte and T3 over something A50 did is a reading into wifom and, quite frankly, playing into A50's hands, if this is something scum planned, because no way A50 expected to be elimmed that quickly on day 1. If A50 survived and one of Arte or T3 ever flips red, he can carry that cred all the way to LiLo. You openly admitting you TR Raya is still a read, it does not constitute a clear in any way, but even I admit if she can steer clear of so many player's poe she is playing a good scum game.

When you see an opportunity for town to gain information moving forward, I see mistakes and stubbornness to re-evaluate.

[Lukewarm]

And I've been saying that the poe is wrong, the poe is wrong, to you and to Raya, multiple times. Reconsider, no one listens. So here we are.

Nono is the only clear. No one else is cleared. Clearing Arte and T3 over something A50 did is a reading into wifom and, quite frankly, playing into A50's hands, if this is something scum planned, because no way A50 expected to be elimmed that quickly on day 1. If A50 survived and one of Arte or T3 ever flips red, he can carry that cred all the way to LiLo. You openly admitting you TR Raya is still a read, it does not constitute a clear in any way, but even I admit if she can steer clear of so many player's poe she is playing a good scum game.

When you see an opportunity for town to gain information moving forward, I see mistakes and stubbornness to re-evaluate.

Okay, I saw a way for us to see the official roles of "the person I am most suspicious of" and "the person arte is most suspicious of" before we hit Elo.

But what does your plan give us? Nothing. If we no elim, and then the mafia no kill, we gain absolutely no information, and now we are right back where we started, except we no longer have any abilities.

So now, what I am seeing is you depriving the town of information...

[Lukewarm]

Like my slot was the most suspicious slot for both T3 and for Artemiana

Deadline in a day.
This might be an oversimplification but unless we all got played by Raya it's basically autowin.
VOTE: Lukewarm
Lukewarm hasn't been particularly scummy but the previous player in the slot was really bad.

As it stands raya is a paranoia push. It's all makes sense for the game to end after Moza dies and if not then we'll go down that road then

And your slot is the most suspicious for me and Raya

Is it just yessiree and that whole T-Bone and BM thing was actually TvT? And if that's wrong then we just go for BM next. I still think by A50 interaction moz is semi-clear. And Art too.

And I came up with a plan where we could get both of those alignments revealed before Elo. If any one was right, then congrats, we win. If every single player in the lobby was wrong, then its probably a good thing for us to know that for sure before ELo. I cannot understand why town would be so opposed to that plan.

[T3]

Agreed. Out of luke and yessir yessir is looling much more scummy right now.

[Nono]

VOTE: raya kek

[Nono]

sorry, will check later today,, mod away, interest low, will hammer if needed
i like yessir, tbh, think raya is wolf

VOTE: raya for emphasis
thoughts??

[yessiree]

Like my slot was the most suspicious slot for both T3 and for Artemiana

Deadline in a day.
This might be an oversimplification but unless we all got played by Raya it's basically autowin.
VOTE: Lukewarm
Lukewarm hasn't been particularly scummy but the previous player in the slot was really bad.

As it stands raya is a paranoia push. It's all makes sense for the game to end after Moza dies and if not then we'll go down that road then

And your slot is the most suspicious for me and Raya

Is it just yessiree and that whole T-Bone and BM thing was actually TvT? And if that's wrong then we just go for BM next. I still think by A50 interaction moz is semi-clear. And Art too.

And I came up with a plan where we could get both of those alignments revealed before Elo. If any one was right, then congrats, we win. If every single player in the lobby was wrong, then its probably a good thing for us to know that for sure before ELo. I cannot understand why town would be so opposed to that plan.

You are starting to sound like a broken record, haha, yes your... plan, let's see

Where do I even start - for starters, it's a passive mindset, you think since players are under suspicion, they must be flipped, that's being passive - you're bending backwards to conform to other people. Whereas the active mindset is to engage with players who are suspicious of you and make them change their mind. Your plan is taking a copout, it's passing off responsibility to other people instead of taking matter into your own hands. That's why I don't endorse it. That said, I can see why you think it's a good plan, because you replaced into a scummy slot, and you obviously can't speak for your pred. Not me, I've been here the whole time can speak for myself thank you very much.

I can tell you what the plan should've been, the initial plan was to sort BM/Raya at start of this day, because the TBone flip that people seemed to forget now was a pivotal moment for this game, that never happened. That was plan A.

You think no-lim was my plan and blame me for the nolim How many votes were in play? You're seriously gonna blame my lone vote for nolim when you guys failed to get a majority on neither council nor elim before the deadline. You think your plan is so great that it'll solve the game, so why didn't you vote yourself if you're so inclined? All that empty posturing and no action. If I hadn't decided to check my phone at 3 AM on a Sunday night there wouldn't even be a council Nolim is not the best course of action, I admit that. That's not my best plan. But then town apathy is also not my plan. So is failing to reach a consensus on who should be on council 2 hours before the deadline.

The plan you came up with after replacing in and getting an incorrect read on the gamestate hardly matters to me at this point. It is so far down in the list of plans we should've pursued ages ago that If I had to assign a letter starting from "A" for each plan in descending order of priority, I don't even know where it would end up

[T3]

sorry, will check later today,, mod away, interest low, will hammer if needed
i like yessir, tbh, think raya is wolf

VOTE: raya for emphasis
thoughts??

The deadline passed 24 hours ago.

[Lukewarm]

sorry, will check later today,, mod away, interest low, will hammer if needed
i like yessir, tbh, think raya is wolf

VOTE: raya for emphasis
thoughts??

The deadline passed 24 hours ago.

Yeah, the deadline passed with no-elim, but then Arte passed what would be a hammer vote, but too late.

[Lukewarm]

You think no-lim was my plan and blame me for the nolim How many votes were in play? You're seriously gonna blame my lone vote for nolim when you guys failed to get a majority on neither council nor elim before the deadline. You think your plan is so great that it'll solve the game, so why didn't you vote yourself if you're so inclined?

How many votes were in play? Raya was locked onto your slot, and arte was locked on to mine. Me and T3 were active and on right up to the deadline, and could have switched to either wagon.


Raya or Arte switching their votes was enough for us to push the votes through - which I pointed out to both of them.
A single vote from you on me was enough for us to pass a wagon on me - which I pointed out to you as well.

But then as the deadline approached, no one was on, no Arte, Raya, Yessiree, or Nono. Any one of those people being on could have let us pass a vote. I think this thread being dead is gonna be the reason town has a chance of losing this game

Your plan is taking a copout, it's passing off responsibility to other people instead of taking matter into your own hands. That's why I don't endorse it. That said, I can see why you think it's a good plan, because you replaced into a scummy slot, and you obviously can't speak for your pred. Not me, I've been here the whole time can speak for myself thank you very much.

If you had voted for me, then my plan would have been eliminate me, tracker clear you. How much more power could you have asked for to try and "take matters into your own hands" I was trying to set you up to be the full cleared town leader tomorrow, where you could have then pushed for your agenda. But then you passed on that. Almost like you don't think you could have gotten full cleared by the plan...

[yessiree]

Yes, I'm kicking myself now for not leaving my vote on you. I thought the deadline was gonna be on Monday cause I read somewhere where Raya said deadline was in 2 days when I checked in on Saturday my time, so I thought I had enough time to check in at work on Monday.

[T3]

honestly feels like yessir is trying to wriggle out of automatic loss

[yessiree]

If I was mafia I would concede here out of sheer boredom. We are almost 2 days past deadline. The listmod is probably gonna step in soon. I simply don't have the patience to drag this one out as scum. Whoever is the mafia is should just concede so the players aren't held hostage.

[Isis]

I've become aware of this game.

[Isis]

Do not discuss conditions under which you would concede or discuss concession publicly, I view that as a violation of rule 9.

I will be taking over modding this game, whether or not brassherald returns.

[Isis]

Looks like this game should be in night. Locking the thread.

[Isis]

Full VC tonight when I have a PC but I want to get you folks going. T3, Artemiana, and Nono is the council. There was no elimination.

[Isis]

Council Voting 3.F

Battle Mage, yessiree, Nono (1):

Artemiana,

mozamis, Battle Mage, Raya36 (1):

mozamis

Nono, artemiana, yessiree (1)

Nono

T3, Non, Artemiana(4)

Lukewarm, Raya36, T3, yessiree

Not Voting (0):

Remember, a valid vote for council will be three players within a heal tag, the council will be locked in when 4 players propose the same three person council.

Elim Voting 3.F

mozamis (1):

Artemiana

No Elimination (1):

yessiree

yessiree:

(3): Lukewarm, Raya36, yessiree

Not Voting (2):

Nono,T3

With 6 alive, it takes 4 votes to eliminate.

[Isis]

Artemiana was killed during the night! She was a

Vanilla Townie!