Mini Normal 2205: RotITGBSMoD [game over!]

[VFP]

i checked PookyTheMagicalBear in hopes of identifying him as either traitor or doc. it felt more productive than attempting to sus out a town fakeclaim.

he is confirmed vanilla townie.

Doesn't a rolecop have a gun?

[Datisi]

vote count 3.02

with 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to make a decision. day 3 ends in (expired on 2021-05-07 10:00:00).

execution

DkKoba [3]:

Anya, Andresvmb, InsidiousLemons

Anya [2]:

VFP, DkKoba

not voting [4]:

clidd, osuka, PookyTheMagicalBear, Asteria

mod notes

~ one two seven three

flavour

[VFP]

This just makes me think Anya is a roleblocker and Lemons is actually scum here. A day 2 Rolecop would suggest that there aren't 2 Mafia docs, which would also mean that Dk and asteria are both scum. They are never going to both be scum.
The check on Pooky is odd here. But this makes Pooky town regardless for me.

I think Anya is a good lim still.

@Clidd

thoughts here?

[InsidiousLemons]

i checked PookyTheMagicalBear in hopes of identifying him as either traitor or doc. it felt more productive than attempting to sus out a town fakeclaim.

he is confirmed vanilla townie.

Doesn't a rolecop have a gun?

see 3318

[VFP]

So to confirm.

Andante confirmed that 4 people have a gun

Andante - gun - confirmed
Lemons - gun
Dk - gun
Asteria - gun
Scum 1 - ???
Scum 2 - ???
Scum 3 - ???

Non con Neo
N2 rolecop
Weak Vig

So we probably have a JOAT roleblocker / rolecop, mafia doc, and a traitor.
2 mafia docs will never work with a rolecop and a weak vig. I'm not going to entertain that there are 2 mafia docs.

If Lemons was town here, they would have checked either me or Asteria to get a clear, but instead go for convenient. And to want to vote Dk over Asteria helps the agenda of them voting off town Dk, then most likely my push, followed by Asteria.

I've decided.
Anya - Doc
Lemons - JOAT
Andre / Osuka - traitor

[VFP]

And since Lemons is basically a VT now, I'll lim in Anya or Lemon to prove the above.

[InsidiousLemons]

This just makes me think Anya is a roleblocker and Lemons is actually scum here. A day 2 Rolecop would suggest that there aren't 2 Mafia docs, which would also mean that Dk and asteria are both scum. They are never going to both be scum.
The check on Pooky is odd here. But this makes Pooky town regardless for me.

I think Anya is a good lim still.

@Clidd

thoughts here?

this 2 mafia docs thing needs to die. the first page of this thread confirms that there is

"a mafia doctor"

. not at least one mafia doctor, not some number of mafia doctors, "a". one. anything else would be tantamount to the mod lying about the setup.

mafia doctor and a traitor? maybe, especially in a game with an informed role who knows the number of guns.

the check on pooky was motivated by the fact we know he's non-gunned. i had a strong gut suspicion that he could be the doctor and wanted to see if i was right

[VFP]

DkKoba [3]: Anya, Andresvmb, InsidiousLemons

Could just be an entire scum wagon here.

[VFP]

Scum only need 2 mis lims aswell.
Lemons is putting us into a position on a plausible mis lim even in their mind.

I'm giving you a scum lim.

[DkKoba]

VOTE: lemon

[Asteria]

rise and shine maybe we should actually get a wolf today to mix things up. VOTE: DkKoba

rest well Andante

Yeah idk, 2 nights of no shot is suspicious. I was voting here but Koba is at E-2

andante was shot over asteria because asteria isnt even active on n2

kinda leaning towards voting koba because for me to believe their claim it would have to be a ungated roleblocker and a mafia doctor against a weak vig + informed gunsmith... and that's like looking pretty scumsided

Agree with the reason andante was shot over me. Also keep in mind how the guns have to work for Koba to have one. We have 3 for town which means scum can only have 1 gun. Doc and traitor both don't have guns but I think everything else scum does (which would be a roleblocker in this case). I'm still doubtful on that setup making sense. Also the roleblocker might not be ungated. If Koba tells the truth their shot could have landed on doc protected scum.

I'm pretty sure all scum are within Anya, Andre, Osuka, and Pooky.

If we decide against Koba today I'd be more than happy to go osuka.

I can’t see Asteria being Scum and voting them before tonight is certainly a bad idea

Just commenting on this to say I'm biased but agree. At least give me a chance to try to use my ability. I'll give info D4 if I'm alive and then you elim me because I really should not be alive

I doubt asteria is killed tonight

???

okay first thing's first. i am hardclaiming

town N2 rolecop

. crumbed it in the first word(s) of each line of this post:

n two

other quick points

-

role

claiming this messily after like 5 pages of softclaiming and floundering and confusion makes it pretty much unthinkable to me that andante is being anything but genuine here. my shaky but incredibly persistent gut townread had some merit to it all along dadgummit
-

cop

, mafia, vig, gunsmith, etc. all have guns. given the wide range of roles that can possess guns, i don't think focusing too hard on the total number before anyone at all has flipped is going to grant us any useful setup information. i still don't truly understand why you're so convinced a traitor must be in here. again, trackers do NOT have guns, so it doesn't tell us anything about the veracity of robert's claim. why didn't you bother to verify that before going down this road?

i had hoped to get this claim in at the very start of the day to avoid the appearance of picking a side with my night result, but the late daystart meant that i fell asleep before that could happen.


i checked

PookyTheMagicalBear

in hopes of identifying him as either traitor or doc. it felt more productive than attempting to sus out a town fakeclaim.

he is confirmed vanilla townie

.

I don't think Lemons is lying here because if he was he would either choose something different than a rolecop when we already have a nea, or he would be saying since he's a rolecop we probably wouldn't have a nea too and try to get me elimed. He's not doing either of these.

We know for fact that one of the claims is lying now. We have 4 guns claimed and 4 guns total. I don't think Lemons and Koba are both lying so I'm thinking we are dealing with a traitor. If one of them is lying I would bet Koba. Lemons is in a good position right now as scum and this would be a really risky move. Especially since if we do elim me or koba and find out they are town, Lemons would be in a very bad position.

[DkKoba]

vote me for 2 scum VOTE: dkkoba

[VFP]

I've decided.
Anya - Doc
Lemons - JOAT
Andre / Osuka - traitor

This isn't possible.
So I need to re think it.

I want to discuss with Clidd over it first though.

[InsidiousLemons]

Scum only need 2 mis lims aswell.
Lemons is putting us into a position on a plausible mis lim even in their mind.

I'm giving you a scum lim.

look, was my night action choice the most pro-town possible move? with the benefit of hindsight, i can admit that it was not. i got greedy and allowed my overconfidence in my read of pooky and the potential benefits of being right to convince me that checking him was the best option.

VFP's simultaneous persistence in the notion that the claims will self resolve AND that even town!asteria wouldn't die tonight is pretty fuckin fishy to me. 3324 still does not present a scenario wherein we will know 100% who's lying and who's not by tomorrow, unless i'm misreading it.

[InsidiousLemons]

We know for fact that one of the claims is lying now. We have 4 guns claimed and 4 guns total. I don't think Lemons and Koba are both lying so I'm thinking we are dealing with a traitor. If one of them is lying I would bet Koba. Lemons is in a good position right now as scum and this would be a really risky move. Especially since if we do elim me or koba and find out they are town, Lemons would be in a very bad position.

i'm willing to call this a scumslip. in trying to curry favour by defending players she knows to be town, scum!asteria has revealed that she is mentally counting herself as armed mafioso rather than as her real claim. town!asteria does not believe that koba and i are both telling the truth, because to believe so necessitates the belief that none of the mafia are armed. and we know she didn't just miss the andante flip because she directly quotes anya's "rip andante" message earlier in the same post.

sound reasonable to anyone else?

[VFP]

If I flip Green, Lemons, does that change your opinion on asteria?

[VFP]

VFP's simultaneous persistence in the notion that the claims will self resolve AND that even town!asteria wouldn't die tonight is pretty fuckin fishy to me. 3324 still does not present a scenario wherein we will know 100% who's lying and who's not by tomorrow, unless i'm misreading it.

Either mis reading or trying to discredit that this is clearly correct.
Take your pick.

[InsidiousLemons]

not significantly, but i wouldn't want to lim you today, and i don't think you're a high enough priority NK if you're town that scum would bother killing you before asteria flips. it does lend her some slight credibility in that it would be difficult for scum to guess that you're VT, but again, i don't think you'll flip before her

[InsidiousLemons]

okay wait i don't think i understand what you're saying here. you just said you doubt asteria is killed then advocated not limming DK on the basis that "if the other is killed then we have answers", no?

???

It's not hard to understand.
Scum either kill Dk tonight or both get "role blocked"

So then we know that 1is lying and that scum actually have a roleblocker.
Asteria won't be the kill tonight though 9/10 times.

It sorts itself out for tomorrow.

in the scenario where neither dies and both get "role blocked", how do we know with 100% certainly which one is telling the truth?

[InsidiousLemons]

if the answer is "we don't", then the assertion that this must sort itself out by tomorrow is false.

[Andresvmb]

i'm willing to call this a scumslip. in trying to curry favour by defending players she knows to be town, scum!asteria has revealed that she is mentally counting herself as armed mafioso rather than as her real claim. town!asteria does not believe that koba and i are both telling the truth, because to believe so necessitates the belief that none of the mafia are armed. and we know she didn't just miss the andante flip because she directly quotes anya's "rip andante" message earlier in the same post.

I’m not following this logic at all. Walk me through it like I was a child.

[VFP]

in the scenario where neither dies and both get "role blocked", how do we know with 100% certainly which one is telling the truth?

Dk would be the one lying.
It's really not hard but I understand that you was to discredit this kind of stuff to suit 2 more mis lims.

[VFP]

Anya is going to be the best lim here as scum Lemon's makes a claim like that to ensure Anya is safe. Meaning Anya is something important to scum.
I'm thinking Lemons is actually the traitor here.

that whole reaction check felt pretty fake to me. would not be surprised in the slightest if VFP is scum and Asteria's claim is baloney. mafdoc!VFP, anyone?

okay okay actually random thought let me just say this -- are we sure that in the universe where we kill town!asteria today, scum won't just shoot town!VFP tonight and leave us back at square one trying to figure out

if

Koba and Andante are the real deal?

These posts in particular do not seem town minded to someone who has a gun and, have 3 other gun role claims.
I bolded the "if" on 2961 because it's not a case as if, but a case of are. This is not how town gun role thinks in this situation.

Lets get this Anya outta here, unless you want to go for what is most likely a traitor.

[Andresvmb]

We’re not executing Anya. That’s ridiculous. You know there’s Scum in the PR claims, and Koba’s is by far the weakest one (regarding when it was made, how it was made, and the slot’s actual posting), and you want to execute outside to leave this problem potentially for tomorrow? Why?

[Andresvmb]

Anya is going to be the best lim here as scum Lemon's makes a claim like that to ensure Anya is safe. Meaning Anya is something important to scum.
I'm thinking Lemons is actually the traitor here.

There’s so much tinfoil here my head hurts.