Mini Normal 2205: RotITGBSMoD [game over!]

[InsidiousLemons]

(assumed VT)?

did you happen to catch the many times this was disproven or were you too busy "juicin"

also: will it help if i ask what your case is on osuka from an outside perspective? because i'm looking and i still don't really understand why you're so convinced he's scum. you've had a hard scumread on him since, like, page 7 or something. there was the bit about how you didn't understand/see merit in some of his posts early on (editor's note: 1835) and how he was being caustic -- i agree he was unnecessarily hostile in response to a simple request for clarification, but toxicity isn't really AI to me.

249 is you saying "i'm gonna tunnel you without regard for your good posts, only your mistakes" which is. literally just what scum do

you ask about where osuka is directly engaging with players but he's been doing that all game so that doesn't really apply anymore

your scumpool in 642 is 3 conftown and osuka, 2 of whom are now dead which is. interesting

this is just turning into an iso skim now but you get the point

everything past this point just seems to be inflammatory insults from both sides and a restatement of the assertion that osuka is "doing nothing" and being "a juicer". what is your case? are you just keeping your promises from 249? i'm not trying to ask this in bad faith but i'm having a hard time thinking you're actually looking at this player's post history objectively

[clidd]

Doesn't say much about your alignment though. You are the type of person who creates fake townslips as town, so I wouldn't be surprised if that desire to "get attention" intentionally was still in your town-range.

Alternatively, the feeling can be real, but you are probably still aware of the reasons your slot is being suspected, so I don't understand why it would be frustrating for town!you if it's not a theater.

[clidd]

whats the point if no one is listening.

You’re calling me Scum for being skeptical about the movement of the votes at the end of D1. No one should be listening to you on that.

Actually, I felt some scumpings reading your ISO, but you have being mostly townposting so I’m ignoring it for now.

[clidd]

Maybe it's just your personality, but the way you say some things at times seems premeditated, as if you had a plan before posting instead of just posting what you're thinking.

[clidd]

But as I said, maybe it's just a misinterpretation on my part.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

this game hurts my head when i think about it

it makes 0 sense for clidd-scum to claim yet another gun when the gunpool is already exploded past the number

it also makes 0 sense for multiple scum to fake-claim guns cuz like

why

just why

i'm going to piece things together tonight and hopefully I don't go insane

[clidd]

A not very popular explanation would be if there was only one scum between the claims and we were forcing scumreads on town slots, creating the feeling that we are not being able to find out who is scum (considering that we're scumhunting for 2~3 where there is just 1).

[clidd]

But I believe that there are mechanical implications that make this scenario less likely ^

[clidd]

So the simplest assumption, if the mech spec about the claims is correct, is that scum is not being obvious and operating in a towny manner (just like Amélie in our past game, Pooky).

[clidd]

Asteria and Lemons would fit well the description of deepwolfs, although it's not so clear whether Dk is scum or not.

[DkKoba]

im not

[InsidiousLemons]

it makes 0 sense for clidd-scum to claim yet another gun when the gunpool is already exploded past the number

it's not unreasonable to think there could have been a certain measure of deliberateness in that, hoping to play town enough that the foolishness of such an unlikely claim would absolve him somewhat. not familiar with clidd's meta but people seem to think of him as a formidable player and he's presented himself well to me so far

i don't think it's worth busting out the tinfoil on that one this early though, just something to keep in mind. better options for today

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

A not very popular explanation would be if there was only one scum between the claims and we were forcing scumreads on town slots, creating the feeling that we are not being able to find out who is scum (considering that we're scumhunting for 2~3 where there is just 1).

yea i kind of have paranoid pangs in my gut that what happened was:

Andante was informed that there are Four

Other

Players with guns in the game.

and she misread it.

I'd rather lose because of that than lose because we decided to not listen to her info.

so let's just assume we are in a 4 gun world and there are minimum 2 wolves in the 4Gun-Pool

[InsidiousLemons]

though in saying that i recognize that i am still unvoted and am no closer to reconciling my read on koba with the contradictions i brought up in 3678

p-edit i feel like a mod wouldn't word an info pm that ambiguously. why not just say "there are x total guns in the game"?

the fact that andante kept specifically referencing knowing "the number of guns in the game" and not "the number of people with guns" supports this

[InsidiousLemons]

So I know how many people "have guns" this game

look, pooky, to be fair... I have that number, I am 1 in it

idk if I out how many guns in play

based on the number of guns tbh

whatever, there's 4 guns total this game, I have 1, and 3 others are out there

so you're an informed gunsmith?

lmao no joke.. I was like "nah not informed, just gunsmith and I know the 4 guns in play" then I reread my role PM... informed gunsmith lmao

this is pretty conclusive imo

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yea which is why it is super confusing to me

[InsidiousLemons]

?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

here's the thing.

If we assume 2 scum in the 4 Gun-Pool

That means there's only 3 Town Power Roles in this game.

The norm for a Mini Normal is ~ 4-5 TPRs..

Datisi's last two Mini Normals had 4 TPRs each:

Spoiler: Mini 2187

town:
1x town innocent child jailkeeper enabler
1x town joat (neapolitan, gunsmith, tracker)
1x town 3-shot vigilante
1x bulletproof townie
6x vt

scum:
1x mafia multitasking jailkeeper
1x mafia informed ([player] is a town innocent child jailkeeper enabler; there are no town-aligned aliens, babysitters, bodyguards, commuters, doctors, hiders, jailkeepers or rolestoppers, backups for one of these roles, or joats with the ability from at least one of these roles)
1x mafia bulletproof enabler

and

Spoiler: Mini 2163

town:
1x town informed loyal cop (informed there is at least one mafia member with the rolestopper ability)
1x town jailkeeper
1x town commuter
1x town checker miller
6x VT

scum:
1x mafia rolestopper
1x mafia n1 informed (informed there is a town informed loyal cop)
1x mafia goon

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Here's all the possible mech combinations we could have:



Do any of those look like even remotely balanced against Mafia Doctor + Mafia Roleblocker + Mafia Traitor?

[InsidiousLemons]

i don't know why you're assuming 2 armed scum though. in a game with an informed gunsmith and a mafia doctor, doesn't it make perfect sense to put a traitor in there to make the gunsmith's info less reliable? maybe even a traitor PR (like RB) to balance things out? i don't want to get too deep into setup spec but there's a reason these possibilities have been raised.

p-edit i don't really have an eye for balance but mafia doctor + mafia goon + mafia traitor roleblocker could actually be argued to be more plausible, since it would remove the ability for the mafia to coordinate a roleblock and open up the possibility for the doctor themself to get rb'd

[InsidiousLemons]

i need to look through koba's iso with this in mind and decide if it helps my headache or worsens it

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i don't know why you're assuming 2 armed scum though. in a game with an informed gunsmith and a mafia doctor, doesn't it make perfect sense to put a traitor in there to make the gunsmith's info less reliable? maybe even a traitor PR (like RB) to balance things out? i don't want to get too deep into setup spec but there's a reason these possibilities have been raised.

p-edit i don't really have an eye for balance but mafia doctor + mafia goon + mafia traitor roleblocker could actually be argued to be more plausible, since it would remove the ability for the mafia to coordinate a roleblock and open up the possibility for the doctor themself to get rb'd

I am not assuming 2 armed scum. I am assuming 1 armed scum.

If we had 2 armed scum that means we only had 2 TPRs total...

[InsidiousLemons]

wait nevermind that second point i keep forgetting the traitor knows who the mafia are i promise i'm not trying to dumbtell

p-edit ah fuck okay lemme reread

[InsidiousLemons]

i feel like i remember the possibility being raised a long while ago that koba might be faking the weak modifier in an attempt to spare themself from an NK, and get an extra vig shot after the first time they hit scum. could that make things any more balanced? informed gs + one-shot rolecop + full vig isn't incredibly powerful, but knowing that datisi is notoriously scum-favouring and that the gs had very useful info might make it more plausible?

[InsidiousLemons]

also thank you for the chart it's incredibly helpful