Newbie 2062: The Hubble Telescope - End!

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 1-7

The main mirror was so finely polished at completion that if you scaled it to be the diameter of the Earth, you would not find a bump more than 6 inches tall.

Andante

(2): RationalMadman, T3

orctin

(2): Clasko, JacksonVirgo

T3

(1): Andante

Clasko

(1): Ivyeo

Ivyeo

(1): Demainer

RationalMadman

(1): Rathe

Not Voting

(1): orctin

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline: May 8, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2021-05-07 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[RationalMadman]

I crack under pressure, I do not work well under it

If you and Orctin are both Mafia, would you react this way? I am not playing a mind-game here, I'm asking you to either admit it or explain if you react differently to that kind of pressure (Orctin has 2 votes on him).

[Andante]

Well I'm not maf, I can't speak for orctin, none of their lines have stuck out to me so idk, like, I've skimmed over most tbh, I'm not ignoring orctin, just haven't seen an AMAZING post from them

[RationalMadman]

Well I'm not maf, I can't speak for orctin, none of their lines have stuck out to me so idk, like, I've skimmed over most tbh, I'm not ignoring orctin, just haven't seen an AMAZING post from them

Okay which post?

[RationalMadman]

Sorry I skimread haven't as have

[RationalMadman]

I will like clasko and ivyeo to contribute more. At the moment I still think Andante js scum who is playing well, as opposed to town who is playing poorly (the frustration, genuine or not, is better play from Scum in this scenario).

Pressure does make people feel less pleasant, I do believe town especially who wanted a friendly newbie game, could experience a lot of anger and frustration in Andant's shoes. However, I do not follow Andante's reads or reasoning and that defaults me to scumread the Appeal to Emotion

[RationalMadman]

I think both of the other SEs than myself are town, actually I'm starting to townread Ratheore strongly than JV because Rathe, while dedicated to short posts, is consistently pushing people to reveal thought processes that would help town regardles of if Rathe is scum or not. The way rathe just questioned Andante is something I don't believe would happen if Rathe was scum there, not even if he was Andante's partner.

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't think SE/Newbie really matters too much tbh, but yeah JV likely town lol I like his start, and I know what's to come in this game, so scum should be scared... unless he decideds to tunnel another town again lmao

I completely agree that SE/Newbies aren't leagues apart, SE literally just means they've played a few extra games and that does not equate to skill at all. Scum should indeed be scared regardless heh, because I still caught scum slippin' in that game even with my bad start lol

[JacksonVirgo]

Andante seems to be using classic scum Appeal to Winrate. Basically saying : I'm too valuable ton to lim.

Can you explain what this appeal means? I have not heard of it

[JacksonVirgo]

I will not unvote Andante at this point. There is high effort put in but there is something really 'appeal to emotion' as opposed to 'appeal to logic' about andante's approach. So, I will not unvote, I'm willing to push through to force a claim. I'm aware I said 2/5 is worrying before but the reaction of Andante here feels like scum trying to strongly imply 'don't you dare vote me'. This also strikes me as odd as in an earlier post, Andante specifically reolied to me saying that as town, she doesn't give a damn whwn being BW'd on but basically says 'fuck you' to those voting her. I am very inclined to scumread Andante at this point, there is a very high stress level to being voted that simply doesn't make sense to me.

The push on T3 could definitely be what Town Andante would do. I even buy the reasoning, however I don't quite grasp why Andante's hostility to people seems solely based on how likely they are to vote her.

I would actually like you to read through this game here this is a recently closed game and they did a lot of AtE in there and it's the reason why their actions in this game is NAI this far into the game.

[JacksonVirgo]

I would even prefer an Orctin elimination by far. Nit because he is voting me byt because of how ridiculous and shallwo the reasoning why has been for any of his reads and actions (including the vote on me).

So unless Orctin is a viable vote, I will stick to Andante if today is Andante vs T3. T3's claim of reaction testing me seems genuine, more genuine than id he'd justified the hard TR on me without saying it was a bait for me.

They are being wagoned more than Andante...

[JacksonVirgo]

Honestly Day 1 is always a Crapshoot - and odds are against town with any day 1 vote cause it's just to easy to basically have 2 townies facing off against each other which i am starting to wonder if that's what is happening with Rational and Andante. At which case then need to think about who's really egging the two sides on - there's your scummie

I would need to read back to look that way at the last few pages, as busy at work so do it later, but i would suspect your best scum target isn't one of them, but someone on the side wanting to keep attention there.

Vote: NoVote

I am just saying this now, regardless of the fact if you're thinking of a no-elim. If you are, we are not doing it. That happened in my last game and it got me so mad it wasn't even funny.

Chances of scum getting killed at night is 0%.
Chances of scum getting eliminated during the day is always more than that and thus not doing so will land in a bigger issue to the Town than not.

[T3]

I don't think SE/Newbie really matters too much tbh, but yeah JV likely town lol I like his start, and I know what's to come in this game, so scum should be scared... unless he decideds to tunnel another town again lmao

I completely agree that SE/Newbies aren't leagues apart, SE literally just means they've played a few extra games and that does not equate to skill at all. Scum should indeed be scared regardless heh, because I still caught scum slippin' in that game even with my bad start lol

BRAND newbies are definitely different, but yeah.

[T3]

I did a mathematical run of a 9 player 2 scum mountainous a while ago and scum had about a 59% chance if we elimmed every day and a 71%chance if we no elimmed on d1.

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't think SE/Newbie really matters too much tbh, but yeah JV likely town lol I like his start, and I know what's to come in this game, so scum should be scared... unless he decideds to tunnel another town again lmao

I completely agree that SE/Newbies aren't leagues apart, SE literally just means they've played a few extra games and that does not equate to skill at all. Scum should indeed be scared regardless heh, because I still caught scum slippin' in that game even with my bad start lol

BRAND newbies are definitely different, but yeah.

You have no idea of their external experience with forum mafia, let alone their natural skill at the game. Trust me, thinking they're not as good will be your downfall.

[JacksonVirgo]

I did a mathematical run of a 9 player 2 scum mountainous a while ago and scum had about a 59% chance if we elimmed every day and a 71%chance if we no elimmed on d1.

Indeed. That's of course not taking into account PRs but yeah.

[RationalMadman]

They are being wagoned more than Andante...

Numerically, yes, however Orctin is only scumread by the two voting him and also by myself. Furthermore, I said that to pressure Orctin to react, if I actually voted him it risked forcing him to out or worse him being Elim'd before having the chance.

My reads aren't always, if ever, concrete even though I state them that way. I have a unique belief in Mafia that Town should keep pressuring and bluffing scum with reads they're only half-sure of if there aren't strong real ones (and vice versa but less so from Scum to town) so as to endlessly force tells and/or slips which then leads to more data to draw reads, including 'with and not with" reads that help post-flip.

Orctin's reaction was terrible. He found some strange reason to justify unvoting me, which is just not the right thing to do in his shoes especially if he's Town. However, that assumes he thinks about things in terms of strategy rather than perhaps just voting me initially really based on the read he says he had (that I am an overplaying scum member who is overly triny got portray Town) and coincidentally had become less sure of that read up until I said I wanted to vote him through to elimination.

I do not townread Orctin or Andante but I admit that Andante's reactions could be done as either alignment, why I believe she's Scum is because the reads she has don't add up at all in my opinion.

[RationalMadman]

"overly triny got "

Overly trying to*

[orctin]

Well things seem to have settled a little and actually got some rational discussion there with T3 and Jack.

Rational, And dont take offense i'm just talking, your that type player that comes out swinging. You started that way and haven't really stopped. I tend to find those people more distracting and a more time than not going down wrong roads cause they get caught up in the poking people to poke them playstyle. You Poke on players with the only purpose to get a reaction from them, then read any reaction that is pushing back at you as scum. To me it's a bad game play. And earlier you mentioned my comment about scum laying back - if you look you will find i noted that generally 1 scum lays back - the other plays more in the open.

[JacksonVirgo]

why I believe she's Scum is because the reads she has don't add up at all in my opinion.

Could you throw me some examples

[Andante]

why I believe she's Scum is because the reads she has don't add up at all in my opinion.

Could you throw me some examples

LMAOOO imagine saying my initial gut reads on entrances don't add up... hey JV didn't I say your entrance sucked that other game? I literally said in the post I was 0/2 last time I did entrance reads, but I took a stab at it, then read all clasico's lines, and the tone felt scummy

[RationalMadman]

Poke on players with the only purpose to get a reaction from them, then read any reaction that is pushing back at you as scum.

Yes, that would be terrible if I did that.

I townread Rathe voting me and keeping on me as well as the other things he's done.

I townread JacksonVirgo espect for his negative hounding of me and questionin of my thought process as well as quality content that increased due to what I encouraged to happen to the game (everyone talking a lot and attacking each other).

I did not scumread reactions to me by default, however your and Andante's reaction to me has been scummy as has been Ivyeo's lack of reactions to anyone.

[RationalMadman]

Could you throw me some examples

I'll quote later if need be but basically, Andante's reads follow this pattern:

Those that scumread her are scum.
Those that townread those that scumread her lean scum or are unreadable.
Those that lurk are scum.
Those that go gentle on her despite contributing are town.

I have found that this adds up to mean she is either scum or is detrimental to Town if she is Town. It's not just who, it's the why. The actual reasoning behind her reads is always reading as 'let me say something to justify it' not ever wow, Andante has properly analysed this player and makes a decent point.

For instance, when I asked her what kind of meta read led her to scumread T3 she gets furious at me and tells me to reread his games. Then, says nothing more.

When she scumreads Clasko, she lists the quotes, says some generic reason for it being scummy and doesn't even remotely justify it, Clasko could easily be her partner that she tried to soft-bus (bussing where you intend to ubvote them but just in case, your vote makes you look towny later). Orctin coukd also be her partner, both have a very strange set of interactions where Orctin and Andante are two of the most active players and it's a cutthroat atmosphere yet neither has attacked the other at all, in fact Andante did quite Orctin's read on her and soecified how ridiculous it was which Orctin ignored and Andante later tells me ahe has absolutely no read on him (she should scumread him).

[RationalMadman]

"espect for his negative hounding of me and questionin of my thought process"
Especially for*

[orctin]

When i noted a while back some reads Andante was included on that list

See thats something i've seen you do 3-4 time now - post half truths, you take one piece of something someone says - pounce on it - yet ignore the rest - this is why i'm suspect of you - you tend to take one piece of something and then try to use it against people taking things out of context or putting the whole info there when you do - this is to me a scum read cause that's how scum lie, you have to mix in truth with the lie so it looks more believable and townies can see the piece you are using but if they aren't looking hard enough then they fall into the trap of taking that half post as what was actually said