DEFCON Mafia 5.0: GAME OVER - NEW AMERICA FORMED

[T3]

At ths point bell feel like high postcount but lacking in content. The reads almost feel forced.
Prism sticks out to me as very townys for the moment. Like Prism threw shade on Vax but offered a reasonable explanation for what it could be. samantha is strong town for the total war thing.

[SirCakez]

Votecount 1.2

FOR TOTAL WAR [18] - Prism, Vaxkiller, Save The Dragons, Et Al, gorilla, Equinox, Cephrir, Nexus, Titus, T3, PookyTheMagicalBear, mastina, DeathNote, The Church of Skitter, Lady Lambdadelta, joqiza, Untrod Tripod, Robert M Hunter,
AGAINST TOTAL WAR [3] - samantha97, Bell, DeasVail

Unconfirmed [3] - Toogeloo, deep-city-lights, marry

DEFCON 5 will last 72h or until everyone has confirmed via voting For/Against Total War.

Countdown to the End of DEFCON 5: (expired on 2021-05-02 09:07:00)

We will not be going to Total War. We will move to DEFCON 4 when everyone has arrived or at the above deadline.

[Save The Dragons]

I HAVE BOUGHT THREE KILOS OF GRADE A COLOMBIAN COCAINE FOR USE DURING THIS GAME

not good old home grown American chemistry teacher-made meth? suspicious...

[Prism]

At ths point bell feel like high postcount but lacking in content. The reads almost feel forced.
Prism sticks out to me as very townys for the moment. Like Prism threw shade on Vax but offered a reasonable explanation for what it could be. samantha is strong town for the total war thing.

I should interject and say normally you shouldn't do this imo, you want to see what they say then compare. I specifically wanted to see if Vax would try to cook up a third option, or try really hard to explain the shift. I'm not really sure how to feel about the answer of different every game/not really remembering 2181, but fishing doesn't mean you catch something every time.

[Et Al]

I thought that you were responding to concerns about your alignment with what essentially amounted to “you’re obviously wrong, duuuh! Why are you even saying that?”

Well, yes and no. Yes because that is what I'm saying, but I still feel like that qualifies as engaging, because I'm inviting people to talk more about the thing that I disagree with them on.

The snark, as I said, was probably unnecessary. But I get scumread for playstyle things in virtually every game I play, and I'm a bit sick of it, especially since people don't tend to respond charitably to my attempts to explain otherwise (see: Nexus).

And this is because your engagement is superficial and hollow, as if you are trying to replicate what you would do as town but haven’t quite found that groove and are getting frustrated that it’s not working out.

Also, this is kinda interesting-- there's nothing in here that suggests that this behavior is more likely to be from scum than from town. I don't

feel

like my engagement is more superficial than it usually is at this stage in the game, but maybe it looks different from the outside. And so I certainly would be frustrated that it's not working out-- as either alignment. (Also, how do you know that I'm trying to

replicate

what I do as town if you've never even played with me? What makes you think this isn't just what I do as town?)

-S

[joqiza]

*drawing a summoning circle in pastel colors*

*lighting incense candles and placing them in the corners of the room*

*sprinkling rosemary and sage*

MARRY... O MISCHIEVOUS ONE..... I SUMMON YOU.... FROM THE DEPTHS OF THE INTERNET...... GRACE US WITH YOUR PRESENCE.....

[joqiza]

There's a decent chance she forgot this site exists

[Vaxkiller]

Reading through the list.
Missle Silo is like the only real option huh?

[Vaxkiller]

I mean, I guess the eavesdrop is good for one reason, it confirms your town.... but other than that....

[joqiza]

Looking at the list again I think the one we should really try to get is submarine because it's dangerous in enemy hands. So if town gets it they can just hardclaim it.

Espionage also seems useful since it's just an investigative... maybe if someone rushes counterintelligence too that could be useful. Not sure if worth it but if a townie ended up with it they can hardclaim it and get resolved to ensure all alignment checks are real.

Idk what other troops are really that useful. Most of them seem protective which doesn't seem worth giving up basically a dayvig for.

Maybe some of them are useful to grab just to stop scum from getting them.

[Cephrir]

i think there is some benefit to not outing the submarine immediately -- since they won't be openly nuking, it makes them look like a power role

i think there are definitely a few troops that are worth taking just to make sure someone has them. there are also a few i think are pretty much worthless.

[Cephrir]

i guess ill just get into it, at the risk of maybe giving some insight into my draft selections

I think these roles are worth drafting:
Espionage
Aircraft Carrier
Battleship
Submarine

I think these roles are good to keep out of scum hands, but do very little for town:
Fighter
Radar
Counterintelligence, I guess

I think these roles are just bad:
Covert Ops Team
Eavesdropper?
Fallout Shelter
Strategic Missile Defense

I think this role may be good to keep out of SK hands? but maybe it's not horrible for town either?:
Air Base

Not sure:
Fail Safe

[Cephrir]

my intuition is that the threat of an eavesdropper potentially existing gives 100% of the utility actually having one does most of the time.

[T3]

We dkon't know for a fact that w

[Vaxkiller]

Eavesdropper is a town inno IMO. I suppose scum could grab it, but over the other choices, why? For my perceived inno that everyone else might not agree with? Doubt it.

[Vaxkiller]

Fallout shelter is a scum claim.

[Cephrir]

Fallout shelter is a scum claim.

yeah, and i think scum won't take it for that reason, hence just bad

[Et Al]

Fail Safe is pretty strong, at least if you are a townread player, because it can't be endgamed. But not as strong as the other four.

Air Base is also good for town, because scum are likely going to be killing in the pool of people who aren't nuking.

-S

[Et Al]

@mod will the deadline be suspended if there are slots that need replacing?

-S

[DeasVail]

I thought that you were responding to concerns about your alignment with what essentially amounted to “you’re obviously wrong, duuuh! Why are you even saying that?”

Well, yes and no. Yes because that is what I'm saying, but I still feel like that qualifies as engaging, because I'm inviting people to talk more about the thing that I disagree with them on.

The snark, as I said, was probably unnecessary. But I get scumread for playstyle things in virtually every game I play, and I'm a bit sick of it, especially since people don't tend to respond charitably to my attempts to explain otherwise (see: Nexus).

And this is because your engagement is superficial and hollow, as if you are trying to replicate what you would do as town but haven’t quite found that groove and are getting frustrated that it’s not working out.

Also, this is kinda interesting-- there's nothing in here that suggests that this behavior is more likely to be from scum than from town. I don't

feel

like my engagement is more superficial than it usually is at this stage in the game, but maybe it looks different from the outside. And so I certainly would be frustrated that it's not working out-- as either alignment. (Also, how do you know that I'm trying to

replicate

what I do as town if you've never even played with me? What makes you think this isn't just what I do as town?)

-S

The comments on being scumread because of your playstyle really don’t do much for me and I also don’t appreciate the implication that I need to be familiar with you in order to read you.

The reason for my thoughts was that much of your posting felt like what scum would do trying to do what they would do as town, because a lot of it didn’t actually make much sense to me as coming from town. (What I said about the questions to me and nexus being unnecessary and likely not thought through)

Btw I also don’t see what your complaint is about Nexus given you responded to his suspicion with “it’s clearly NAI”. That’s really shutting down any further conversation

[Et Al]

I backed up and asked him an actual question in 280 and he pointedly ignored it

-S

[Et Al]

a lot of it didn’t actually make much sense to me as coming from town

Can you elaborate on this? Why doesn't it seem like something town would do?

-S

[samantha97]

I think this role may be good to keep out of SK hands? but maybe it's not horrible for town either?

[gorilla]

with regard to role drafting, I'm going to quote this from the previous game. The point about drafting the submarine is a strong one.

Subject: DEFCON Mafia 3.0 - Over, American Victory!

Defcon 4 Guide

Ignorance of the rules is no excuse. Understand things before you make your selections.

1. You get to choose between being able to nuke/defend from a nuke ("missile silo"), and having a PR ("troops").

2. If you choose "Troops", you get to list which PRs you want in the order that you want them. You don't need to include all the items; it can be as little as one. There's a draft, where you're more likely to get things high on the list than low.

If you don't end up with anything on your list, you get a missile silo.

The troop choices are:
Fighter: Rolecop
Espionage: Cop (one faction at a time)
Aircraft Carrier: Roleblocker
Battleship: Doctor
Radar: Tracker (does not track night-kills)
Counterintelligence: Framer/lawyer
Submarine: Anonymous daykill (starting D3)
Eavesdrop: Get PMed 1/6-1/3 of scum QT
Air Base: Immune to night actions
Fallout Shelter: Immune to daykills
Fail Safe: Vengeful

3. Scum get to coordinate their checks. We don't.

4. The SK gets one free pick, outside of the draft.

So, with all that in mind, some advice:

1. Do not choose missile silo. Do not do this.

If all you want is a missile silo, choose Troops and list Submarine as your only choice.

It's critical that we keep this out of scum hands. We may not be able to stop the SK from getting it, but we can make him use his free pick on it, and we can keep scum from getting this altogether.

The more people who do this, the better chance that town gets Submarine instead of scum.

You either get a Submarine, which is awesome, or you get a missile silo, which is what you wanted to begin with.

2. If you're going for troops, I'd advise against a "steal from the scum" mentality. Better to have Espionage than Counter-espionage, better to have Fighters than Air Base. I'd also advise against going for Submarine -- leave those to the people hopefully following point 1. Fighter, Aircraft Carrier, Espionage, and Battleship are all really good powers that deserve top spots on your list -- at best, you'll get one, at worst you'll make it harder for scum to get them.

3. I'd really advise putting Fail Safe (Vengeful) on your list. Unless you expect to get night-killed N1 or N2, it's categorically worse than just having a missile silo.

4. WIFOM it up in the thread. Town benefits from a certain spread to the selections, but only if scum don't know what it is.

[Bell]

At ths point bell feel like high postcount but lacking in content. The reads almost feel forced.
Prism sticks out to me as very townys for the moment. Like Prism threw shade on Vax but offered a reasonable explanation for what it could be. samantha is strong town for the total war thing.

Yes, it's RVS and I have no strong reads I'm confident in.