Newbie 2062: The Hubble Telescope - End!

[JacksonVirgo]

What makes you think it's a panic claim over a frustrated claim.

[RationalMadman]

Wait did they cc someone. I thought they just claimed out of frustration.

They're blackmailing a Pr to CC that can rule Doc out. Use your head.

I know what you fucking think they're doing. I am not fucking dense. But you have no fucking idea whether they are or not, you're just thinking they are being you SR them, not following up with a cc is conf-bias and can destroy the fuck out of the Town.

Nope. You have the Conf bias and have ever since daystart. You're convinced every single part of reasons to scumread Andante are nillified by the fact she has played terribly in another game she was Town in. That is the defit of Confirmation Bias. In this scenario you aren't even thinking straight. You are not thinking about how she's going to react as Doc here, why would she out? Why would she not ever once answer my questions? Why constantlt AtE, vote me after voting T3 for the same bullshit reason and then out as Doc instead of contributing anything worthwhile?

Why is she outing as Doc and not then insisting you vote me out? Because she's waiting for the CC.

[RationalMadman]

Panic and frustration are coinciding but there's a plan behind the claim and you're helping it succeed.

[RationalMadman]

Definition* not defit

[JacksonVirgo]

Wait did they cc someone. I thought they just claimed out of frustration.

They're blackmailing a Pr to CC that can rule Doc out. Use your head.

I know what you fucking think they're doing. I am not fucking dense. But you have no fucking idea whether they are or not, you're just thinking they are being you SR them, not following up with a cc is conf-bias and can destroy the fuck out of the Town.

Nope. You have the Conf bias and have ever since daystart. You're convinced every single part of reasons to scumread Andante are nillified by the fact she has played terribly in another game she was Town in. That is the defit of Confirmation Bias. In this scenario you aren't even thinking straight. You are not thinking about how she's going to react as Doc here, why would she out? Why would she not ever once answer my questions? Why constantlt AtE, vote me after voting T3 for the same bullshit reason and then out as Doc instead of contributing anything worthwhile?

Why is she outing as Doc and not then insisting you vote me out? Because she's waiting for the CC.

I am all ready to flip reads on them if I have a fucking reason to do so. There is no counterclaim and you have not countered as to why my logic to getting a counterclaim is bad, just ignored it and thrown the same fucking logic back and forth. I am saying that the reasonings it seems like to me is backed up by meta so I have no reasons to think otherwise until I have a mechanical 1v1. I SAID SHE WOULD OUT FROM FRUSTRATION, I NEVER SAID THEY MADE A SMART OR LOGICAL DECISION WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCKING SHIT. This is why I rather mod games, this is just stupidity.

[JacksonVirgo]

Panic and frustration are coinciding but there's a plan behind the claim and you're helping it succeed.

Alright, I'll throw another ball.

Explain why a counterclaim is worse for town than otherwise. Taking into consideration that Andante could be any alignment since we don't know.

[RationalMadman]

Panic and frustration are coinciding but there's a plan behind the claim and you're helping it succeed.

Alright, I'll throw another ball.

Explain why a counterclaim is worse for town than otherwise. Taking into consideration that Andante could be any alignment since we don't know.

Well, that is based on a strong, consistent scumrwad onnehr from me a day phase long as well as something I won't reveal until tomorrow' day phase if I'm alive.


For all you know, I am PR here begging you not to force me to out. Think. Read between the lines of Rathe and my posts as well as whoever reacts from now on, which I'm helping reveal as little as possible by my insertion here.

Trust me please, if this flips Doc, vote me tomorrow and spit on my eliminated body.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'll try to convince you with statistics.

No counterclaim -> Flips scum. We gain a great advantage, Rathe likely dies here if they are Town.
Counterclaim -> We have a definite scum flip by D2 although sacrificing a PR in the meantime.
No counterclaim ->Flips Town. We do not have a definite scum flip going into D2, we also risk the other PR dying and pushing us into a 5v2 mountainous (balanced mountaious is 11v2 which is still scum-sided, think about that).
Counterclaim -> Definite scum flip by D2. We do not lose the PR more than any other way, as the PR is outted already.

On average, if one of those events were picked at random. 3/4 of those will leave us with a greater advantage. That being if we no-cc and they flip scum and the other's are both the counterclaiming.
So couter-claiming here will remove most of the giant risks and give us the greater returns.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'll try to convince you with statistics.

No counterclaim -> Flips scum. We gain a great advantage, Rathe likely dies here if they are Town.
Counterclaim -> We have a definite scum flip by D2 although sacrificing a PR in the meantime.
No counterclaim ->Flips Town. We do not have a definite scum flip going into D2, we also risk the other PR dying and pushing us into a 5v2 mountainous (balanced mountaious is 11v2 which is still scum-sided, think about that).
Counterclaim -> Definite scum flip by D2. We do not lose the PR more than any other way, as the PR is outted already.

On average, if one of those events were picked at random. 3/4 of those will leave us with a greater advantage. That being if we no-cc and they flip scum and the other's are both the counterclaiming.
So couter-claiming here will remove most of the giant risks and give us the greater returns.

The second counterclaim one is wrong, let me reword.
We will either have a definite scum flip by D2 if scum want to be ballsy and we do not risk losing the second PR D2 making us have a greater chance of getting at least one guilty result in rather than not.

Also by "greater advantage" I mean an outcome that does not straight up put us in a worse position.

[JacksonVirgo]

Before I make any decision, I am not being delusional or conf-biased. I am speaking directly to logic from an unbiased and external point of view, counterclaiming here gives us the highest return. It does not mean counterclaim with a claim, just saying "I am a PR that makes their claim fake" is fine, otherwise eliminating without a counterclaim has the ability to absolutely destroy the Town and I am completely against that.

I also think they're Town but if I am speaking directly to logic, that is also the best play.

[JacksonVirgo]

Also going off "I think X is PR and thus this cannot be" is nothing we go off at all so if you're thinking that, stop because you're wrong more times than not.

[JacksonVirgo]

I would also like you to answer this. What makes you assume I am conf-biased rather than me being scum with them. You said earlier that we were a viable team, yet that didn't seem to come into your head when I was pushing towards the agenda you think scum!andante is pushing.

[Ivyeo]

At this point, the arguement of "Her play doesn't make sense as town" doesn't work if you agree it doesn't work as mafia ethier. It's nonsense. Whilst I understand why you don't like the claim, unless we have a CC I don't think responding by hammering it is the best call here.

[RationalMadman]

I would also like you to answer this. What makes you assume I am conf-biased rather than me being scum with them. You said earlier that we were a viable team, yet that didn't seem to come into your head when I was pushing towards the agenda you think scum!andante is pushing.

Because there is no use talking to you as if you're the partner. If you are, then I will convinceore bystanders by sticking to my townread on you.

I think like Scum even when I am a Townie, I play to manipulate regardless, in favoir of my agenda. This game I am Town and my agenda right now is to get you to back off of pushing for an explicit CC to Andante.

If I were scum here, this isn't what I'd do, unless I were scum with you and really wanted a fantastic drama (but I'd never tunnel Andante how I did as scum especially as if she's PR that will really come to bite me, it's not my style, though it's true if you read my earliest games I was a gambit-hungry cretin as scum, I've matured since then believe me).

[RationalMadman]

At this point, the arguement of "Her play doesn't make sense as town" doesn't work if you agree it doesn't work as mafia ethier.

It does work if she's mafia but it was executed very strangely indeed.

She also is risking that a player like me will wet my pants as a vanilla or outright CC her as a PR that happens to rule Doc out if am such a PR.

Btw her CCing Doc could also benefit even if itst a setup and outcome where noone CCs Doc, her being left alive will be called a WIFOM avoidance and people will assume Mafia aimed for Cop.

It's viable indeed, since she believes we're voting her and she struggles to Towntell (even as Town as Jackson Virgo pointed out many times). She hasn't answered a single one of my interrogation questions all game. Not one. She dodges all of them and AtEs

[RationalMadman]

"She also is risking that a player like me will wet my pants as a vanilla or outright CC her as a PR that happens to rule Doc out if am such a PR.
"

I meant risking everything on that

[Takemikazuchi02]

Oh I got replaced. RIP

[Rathe]

Explain why a counterclaim is worse for town than otherwise.

cuz it can reveal the real pr

[Rathe]

for mafia

[JacksonVirgo]

Explain why a counterclaim is worse for town than otherwise.

cuz it can reveal the real pr

Look at my list.

"Oh no I am afraid of outing a PR so bad but I am willing to risk yeeting one because I think they're scum owo"

[Ivyeo]

Explain why a counterclaim is worse for town than otherwise.

cuz it can reveal the real pr

Look at my list.

"Oh no I am afraid of outing a PR so bad but I am willing to risk yeeting one because I think they're scum owo"

*Yeeting one without even finding a definite scum in return

[Andante]

Why the heck would rational, as town push this strongly on the doc claim. "Doc would WANT to die at night not day" ok?? That was my plan, and I was also genuinely never going to out, but this ENTIRE game has been Rational pushing the fact I'm scum, and quite honestly, it's just super annoying. So I claimed, to direct your attention away from me, but instead you're just tunneling me harder, so whatever. You gain absolutely nothing when I flip doc, then if cop/tracker go tonight after you yeet me, VT's vs scum... sounds real fun to me. at least you ignore me here, make maf kill or roleblock me. maf literally can't leave me alone all game.

[JacksonVirgo]

tfas

@Andante so you think Mafia is going to roleblock you all game?

[Andante]

I mean, unless they know cop/tracker, probably not. what scum leaves a pr claim alive? Only situation I could see is Rational leaving me alive to tunnel me, I think between Rathe/Rational is not both town

[JacksonVirgo]

Are you assuming there is a roleblocker here