Newbie 2062: The Hubble Telescope - End!
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- fferyllt
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fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
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She- Titan of Trajectory
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Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- Andante
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Andante SheJack of All Trades
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In post 399, JacksonVirgo wrote:Are you assuming there is a roleblocker here
All I know is it isn't 2 goons, if you look at the setup, doc is only in 2 columns- Rathe
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Rathe HeMafia Scum
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Rathe HeMafia Scum
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Rathe HeMafia Scum
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Rathe HeMafia Scum
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Rathe HeMafia Scum
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- JacksonVirgo
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JacksonVirgo they/themJack of All Trades
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No shit sherlockIn post 403, Rathe wrote:if u r actually the real doctor ur claim is anti townTactical Lurker- JacksonVirgo
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JacksonVirgo they/themJack of All Trades
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Wrong, and you should be ashamed of yourself for thinking this way.In post 410, Rathe wrote:either way u being voted out is the best playTactical Lurker- Andante
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- T3
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- Demainer
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Demainer Goon
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There's an element of truth in this, but ivy has already shown her ability to subvert "traditional" mafia play.In post 271, Clasko wrote:
Knowing Ivy's scum game, is it really likely she repeats it, knowing we're both in the game this time around? I think anyone with a grasp of mafia wouldn't do this.In post 269, Demainer wrote:ivy can try preserving her universal tr status by not posting anything just like last time, but I'm not fooled.
Everyone was saying literally the same thing last time, "there's no way scum ivy can be playing like this", twtbaw. They were wrong.- Demainer
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289 gives me good vibes. There's quite a few things to like about this post, especially the depth of analysis that was missing in her previous game as scum. It's not strongly ai, since it could simply be an attempt to improve her scum game, but some of the reads in that post don't feel forced like her reads last time, where she was clearly pushing an agenda with a defined conclusion.- Demainer
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Demainer
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Demainer Goon
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Umm why?In post 319, Andante wrote:whatever, I'm claiming, I'm the doctor, I'm literally dead tonight, so go find scum. thanks. I'm actually getting annoyed by the nonstop pushing on me from you- RationalMadman
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RationalMadman Mafia Scum
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Jammer Andante. Andante should townread how hard I am ohshing and offering to vote me off tomorrow. As Scum I'd want to night kill her, even if Cop would catch me it's safer to force Cop not to investigate outside me and potentially have a win D2.
I am telling you this. If Andante flips Doc, you vote me Day 2.Everyone's a fool in some ways, we all can only try.- RationalMadman
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RationalMadman Mafia Scum
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- T3
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T3 He/himJack of All Trades
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- Demainer
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Demainer Goon
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andante is reading slightly town to me, so I may be biased in this analysis. I'm inclined to believe her claim.
9 possible setups here:
Roleblocker - Cop/Doctor, Jailkeeper/Tracker, Mason/Mason
Rolecop - Tracker/Friendly Neighbor, Jailkeeper/Friendly Neighbor, Tracker/Doctor
Goon - Cop, Jailkeeper, Mason/Mason
The only roles that interact with Doctor are Cop (Roleblocker) and Tracker (Rolecop). Jailkeeper, Mason, Friendly Neighbor all don't interact with Doctor.
Roleblocker - Jailkeeper/Tracker, Mason/Mason
Rolecop - Tracker/Friendly Neighbor, Jailkeeper/Friendly Neighbor
Goon - Jailkeeper, Mason/Mason
On top of that, there's 2 setups involving a real Doctor: Cop/Doctor, Tracker/Doctor.
So, in 8 out of 9 setups, a fake Doctor claim will result in a cc, which leads to the fake claimer being elimed.
andante was nowhere near being elimed at this point, she was not universally sred, so the only reason for a fake claim is a gambit.
But it's also unlikely that scum would fake claim Doctor to goad the real power roles to out themselves as a d1 gambit, because in 4/8 situations where Doctor will be countered, the pr cc comes from a Mason or a Friendly Neighbor, which are hardly of any use to identify.
Roleblocker - Mason/Mason
Rolecop - Tracker/Friendly Neighbor, Jailkeeper/Friendly Neighbor
Goon - Mason/Mason
Outing the Mason is pointless, because scum need to bring the game to lylo to have a chance at faking Mason, which means before lylo is reached, as long as the other Mason claims, they immediately become conftown. Friendly Neighbor is not a meaningful role to out either, since in both cases where the role is outed, there is another pr more powerful than Friendly Neighbor in play (in the Jailkeeper's case, the Friendly Neighbor can avoid nk). So, this is not likely either.
In 2/8 situations, a Doctor fake claim will lead to the real Doctor cc, which is very useful for scum.
In 2/8 situations, the fake claim will lead to a Jailkeeper cc, which is useful for scum, but also incredibly dangerous. The remaining scum could be blocked at night before the scumteam have a chance to take out the Jailkeeper, leading to a complete rout.
So, claiming Doctor to just out a pr is not helpful at all, definitely not at the cost of losing scum. Only 2/8 scenarios definitively benefit scum here.
If scum were at a point where they needed to fake a pr, and did it as a gambit, there are better options. Claiming Friendly Neighbor would be better, because it only results in a cc 7/9 of the time, and 3/7 of the time the cc involves Cop or Doctor, both of which are amazing roles for scum to identify, as opposed to Jailkeeper or Mason or Friendly Neighbor. Claiming Tracker would be good as well, because only 7/9 situations result in cc, and 2/7 involve Cop claim, which is good, and further 3/7 involve Tracker, which is also good. Tracker and Friendly Neighbor make much more sense for a scum fake claim, compared to Doctor.
I don't see scum losing one of its own on d1 for the sake of it, it makes it much harder, for no probable benefit. - Demainer
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