Mini Normal 2205: RotITGBSMoD [game over!]

[osuka]

A not very popular explanation would be if there was only one scum between the claims and we were forcing scumreads on town slots, creating the feeling that we are not being able to find out who is scum (considering that we're scumhunting for 2~3 where there is just 1).

yea i kind of have paranoid pangs in my gut that what happened was:

Andante was informed that there are Four

Other

Players with guns in the game.

and she misread it.

I'd rather lose because of that than lose because we decided to not listen to her info.

so let's just assume we are in a 4 gun world and there are minimum 2 wolves in the 4Gun-Pool

i think that we should go with "there are 4 players _total_ with guns. i'm pretty sure she phrased it like that in the past and frankly if my role pm had ambiguous information like that i would ask the mod about it. i think it's safe to assume she had it right

[osuka]

(assumed VT)?

did you happen to catch the many times this was disproven or were you too busy "juicin"

also: will it help if i ask what your case is on osuka from an outside perspective? because i'm looking and i still don't really understand why you're so convinced he's scum. you've had a hard scumread on him since, like, page 7 or something. there was the bit about how you didn't understand/see merit in some of his posts early on (editor's note: 1835) and how he was being caustic -- i agree he was unnecessarily hostile in response to a simple request for clarification, but toxicity isn't really AI to me.

249 is you saying "i'm gonna tunnel you without regard for your good posts, only your mistakes" which is. literally just what scum do

you ask about where osuka is directly engaging with players but he's been doing that all game so that doesn't really apply anymore

your scumpool in 642 is 3 conftown and osuka, 2 of whom are now dead which is. interesting

this is just turning into an iso skim now but you get the point

everything past this point just seems to be inflammatory insults from both sides and a restatement of the assertion that osuka is "doing nothing" and being "a juicer". what is your case? are you just keeping your promises from 249? i'm not trying to ask this in bad faith but i'm having a hard time thinking you're actually looking at this player's post history objectively

I'm not sure what you assuming VT there from a Vanilla read is bad for? You got a Vanilla read and assumed VT. Thats not wrong, that's exactly what happened to what you're claiming. If I was a rolecop with that result on a GS I would also do the same.
I'm also not disputing that Pooky is VT and I clearly said I trust VT is cleared (even though a scum you means not cleared, but I'll still go with town then anyway).

And why do I still think Osuka can be scum?
Let me explain this simply.

The 3rd scum are going to be with Anya, Osuka, and Andre.
I think Anya is scum. I think Andre looks more town after discussion today. If Anya is town, that means Osuka is scum.
I'm surprised that you spent the time to try and debunk this.

And concerning Osuka, my read changed to town majority. You are taking an early post as your argument here, when I'm pretty sure I've said several times that my read changed on Osuka through out the game.

so you townread me, but i'm _still_ in your poe? how do you put the two together? they're completely dissonant

[osuka]

@Everyone voting me: of all the claims so far besides maybe Koba, I'm the one scum want to NK. Just leave me for scum to get

this is sad

[osuka]

After a third reread, I'm comfortable with this vote:

VOTE: Asteria

Why are you actively ignoring that I'm the logical NK tonight?

VOTE: Asteria

I guess I have to say the same to you too

i would love to hear why the fuck you think youre the logical nk tonight

[osuka]

i think i want asteria today, but if you all think that's insane i'm willing to listen. i would be happy with a vfp exec here

[VFP]

Asteria [2]: DkKoba, clidd
clidd [2]: InsidiousLemons, Asteria

Originally I was thinking that scum won't vote with each other like this.
But I think that the traitor may have fucked up and voted with the other, or scum just aren't fully confident in who the traitor is.
Otherwise I think we would be seeing 3 wagons from the PRs, not jsut 2.

[VFP]

so you townread me, but i'm _still_ in your poe? how do you put the two together? they're completely dissonant

Because Anya town means you or Andre are the scum in the VT's (at least from my PoV).
It's pretty common sense here, I think Andre comes off as more town than you. I would lim you before Andre.

I'm glad we cleared that up.

[VFP]

i think i want asteria today, but if you all think that's insane i'm willing to listen. i would be happy with a vfp exec here

I still can't see how anyone would ever consider you as a serious player when all game you have just said lets lim VFP, even though there's a VT result claim on me.
It really shows the level of Mafia games these days. I feel it doesn't get better from here either.

[osuka]

i think i want asteria today, but if you all think that's insane i'm willing to listen. i would be happy with a vfp exec here

I still can't see how anyone would ever consider you as a serious player when all game you have just said lets lim VFP, even though there's a VT result claim on me.
It really shows the level of Mafia games these days. I feel it doesn't get better from here either.

my apologies - it seems that while writing that post, i forgot the fact that you're incapable of inference

if asteria is scum, which i think is likely to be the case, you're not cleared. you are, in fact, mechanically, an objectively better execution than asteria because your flip strongly suggests asteria's alignment, and we don't risk killing a possible tpr

[Asteria]

After a third reread, I'm comfortable with this vote:

VOTE: Asteria

Why are you actively ignoring that I'm the logical NK tonight?

VOTE: Asteria

I guess I have to say the same to you too

i would love to hear why the fuck you think youre the logical nk tonight

Because I'm non-consec nea. I investigated N1 and my next chance is N3. Scum don't want me giving more info. They could let me live but then whatever info I have D4 will be confirmed when I do die

[DkKoba]

i think i want asteria today, but if you all think that's insane i'm willing to listen. i would be happy with a vfp exec here

I still can't see how anyone would ever consider you as a serious player when all game you have just said lets lim VFP, even though there's a VT result claim on me.
It really shows the level of Mafia games these days. I feel it doesn't get better from here either.

my apologies - it seems that while writing that post, i forgot the fact that you're incapable of inference

if asteria is scum, which i think is likely to be the case, you're not cleared. you are, in fact, mechanically, an objectively better execution than asteria because your flip strongly suggests asteria's alignment, and we don't risk killing a possible tpr

Wheres your asteria vote then?

[osuka]

i think i want asteria today, but if you all think that's insane i'm willing to listen. i would be happy with a vfp exec here

I still can't see how anyone would ever consider you as a serious player when all game you have just said lets lim VFP, even though there's a VT result claim on me.
It really shows the level of Mafia games these days. I feel it doesn't get better from here either.

my apologies - it seems that while writing that post, i forgot the fact that you're incapable of inference

if asteria is scum, which i think is likely to be the case, you're not cleared. you are, in fact, mechanically, an objectively better execution than asteria because your flip strongly suggests asteria's alignment, and we don't risk killing a possible tpr

Wheres your asteria vote then?

can you not read?

[osuka]

but sure you've got a point
VOTE: vfp

[VFP]

I still think asteria and Lemons as the scum PRs though.
You have to remember, Scum know how many guns they have. Before Clidd claimed, and before Lemons claimed we have 3 PRs (1 being dead). With just 2 alive PRs I think it would have been harder for them to lim in this so Lemons adding to the mix only makes sense to claim back to the PRs.
Not to mention, if Clidd is town here, they know town have another PR with a gun and most likely want to try and draw this out.

If we lim a town, Town Dk always hits scum if not blocked. However, the doctor may just cover one of the PRs in hope of killing DK there.
I still think a lim on a PR basically VT now is better.

Lemons scum means that Pooky isn't cleared (To clarify before I get some dumb question to why, the checks would have been No gun and not killed as Lemons would be scum. So Pooky

COULD

be a traitor or Doc).
I don't think Pooky will ever be scum here though, but this needs to be said.

The pool for asteria has to be Anya / Osuka / Andre. Outside of this is a scum claim.

If both Dk and asteria ever claim RB then asteria is always lying. RB only exists on a DK town. Andante proved this by getting a result.

Concerning Clidd, he reads the game carefully. It's just makes no sense to claim a PR here when we are already focused there due to Lemons.
I'm most confident that Lemons and Clidd are not a pair. I also don't think asteria and Clidd are ever an acceptable paring here.

This leaves
Lemons + asteria - From how both claims were given, it's high plausible. This would mean that we have a

Gunsmith / 1shot detective / Weak Vig to scums Doc / Traitor / Role blocker.

Lemons + Dk - This is the only pair I can see outside of the pairing from voting. Reason being that neither of these are being voted, but both led the voting. Setup would be

Gunsmith / Non con Neo / 1 Shot detective vs Traitor + Rolecop + Doc

asteria + Dk - This just doesn't make sense for 2 scum to fake claim so early with at least 1 knowing the amount of guns they have, and the other having an idea or also knowing. Setup will be

Gunsmith / 1 shot detective / N2 Rolecop vs Doc / Traitor / Goon(?)

Clidd + Dk - This is the opposite pairing to voting. It's plausible. Setup would be

Gunsmith / Non con Neo / N2 Rolecop vs Doc / traitor / Goon (?)

Dk scum resolves the though of a RB. I haven't seen any evidence to scum having any powers outside of the above.
Option 1 does seem weak for town, and this is what splits my thought. If the mod is in favour of a scum sided game I think this one is the one.
Option 2 is highly town sided, I don't really like this one as much.
Option 3 looks more balanced, but I favour this the least out of the 4.
Option 4 is again town sided. This would be my second option.

As a whole Dk feels like the right option here as they are linked 3 of 4 to be scum.


Clidd - thinks scum is Asteria and Lemons - Voting Asteria
Dk - thinks scum is Lemons and asteria - Voting asteria
asteria - Thinks scum is Dk and Clidd - Voting Clidd
Lemons - Thinks scum is Dk and Clidd - Voting Clidd

A note to take.
I recently finished a game with Clidd where a N1 detective was in the game. This game also had a Gunsmith but not a Vig (Pooky was also in this game). It could simply be a role taken from that game for a fake claim.
But that said, I think Clidd would know that this could be considered as suspicious and he knows I like to refer to previous games for reasoning.
I haven't felt the effort I did from Clidd yet, but benefit of the doubt here it's still early days on a replace in.

@Lemons / Dk / asteria / Clidd

Can you list in order your views on scum to town within the VTs? (Me, Pooky, Anya, Osuka, Andre) I'm not looking for reasons (at least at this point).

@Pooky / Anya / Osuka / Andre

Can you confirm your 2 favoured scum PRs?

I know some of this information is already out there, but I want an updated view, and something I can put into one place.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

but sure you've got a point
VOTE: vfp

we need to kill in the gun-pool

there is max 1 scum in the non-gunpool

[clidd]

@Lemons / Dk / asteria / Clidd
Can you list in order your views on scum to town within the VTs? (Me, Pooky, Anya, Osuka, Andre) I'm not looking for reasons (at least at this point).

I'm leaning town on you (Vfp), Pooky and Anya.

Not sure on DK (can't find good enough reasons to townread or scumread, but can be scum by PoE). They're null.

Leaning scum on Osuka and Andres (one scum between them).

[clidd]

Osuka is more scummy than Andres though, so Osuka>Andres would be the order of intensity.

While my townpool is Vfp>Pooky>Anya.

[VFP]

I'm leaning town on you (Vfp), Pooky and Anya.

Not sure on DK (can't find good enough reasons to townread or scumread, but can be scum by PoE). They're null.

Leaning scum on Osuka and Andres (one scum between them).

Out of Osuka and Andre, who would you day vig now?

Pedit - Okay thanks.
There's reason for this, so bare with me while I wait on others.

[clidd]

Probably Osuka.

[clidd]

Oh, and just to contextualize my activity level, I can vary a lot in the sense of effort from game to game. It's conscious.

Not that I necessarily get tired, but I like to approach games in different ways. It isn't AI.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

right now my solve is Koba - Lemons - Anya for the baddie team

Maybe subsitute Asteria for Koba.

I think we either need a Neapo or a Vig.

what do you think?

[clidd]

Why do you think that Anya is scum, Pooky?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I will guide the legions of Barad-dûr to victory against the pesky Do-Gooders such as Galadriel(Anya) and Gandalf(Lemonz) - None can hide from my Gaze.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I want my fan-fiction to be miraculously right for my postgame bragging rights

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also does your reasoning for wanting anya dead go beyond "she's on the asteria wagon"

anya feels very surface level and barely playing the game