If me, bork, VFT, and notsci are all transparently town, it makes sense why peta didn't want to point to a specific scum in that group because...we're all transparently town.In post 2454, The Bulge wrote:my interpretation of this line is "peta didn't want to shake things up too much because the actual townies in the bloc were all transparently so, and he didn't want to risk blowing his partner's deep cover"In post 1768, Infinity 324 wrote:Peta didn't want to point to examples because the townies were all transparently town and he didn't want to sow paranoia on a buddy.
it doesn't make sense to say this at all if infinity doesn't think there is a partner in that bloc, regardless of any alternate theories she has given since then for why peta might have done that.
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the only scum motivation i can really see here in infinity presenting this contradiction as such is that infinity thought the inclusion of that clause would make the argument hold more water to get prism off her back
and i don't really feel like it does to me.playing alt of borkjerfkin- Infinity 324
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Originally I didn't include the part about the (possible) buddy in the townbloc, but I didn't want my argument to depend on the entire townbloc being town. I didn't check the part I added in I guess.- Kismet
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part of me feels like 2459 was an attempt to recover from a misstep made in 2458
if infinity is town, it really shouldn't at all imply that vft is scum due to anything related to 1768
just don't know if that was a defensive move or if it was just a clarification =/playing alt of borkjerfkin- The Bulge
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doesn't make a difference here what I think you meant. it's scummy to lie and give false reasoning.In post 2468, Infinity 324 wrote:
Ok but what do you think I actually meant and why is that scummyI don't believe that is what you meant. your wording in the original quoted post does not at all imply speculation. this is a good example of the backpedalling/stretching of ambiguous wording I talked about last night
this is just more of the same damage-control-type responses I've been so far unsatisfied with, so no.In post 2470, Infinity 324 wrote:
Are you happy now? I should've added a word in the original post, that's literally all it wasIn post 1768, Infinity 324 wrote:Scum often don't know how confident to be, especially when they replace in, town generally have examples in mind when they're suspicious of a group. Peta didn't want to point to examples because the townies were all transparently town and he didn't want to sow paranoia on a(possible)buddy. If you want I can argue this point with you until I can convince you I believe it- The Bulge
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fair take, and I appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt. it was a clarification. after I posted "VFT if not", I wanted to convey more clearly "if there is indeed scum in the bloc, and not infinity, then I'd think VFT" so it wouldnt be interpreted as me saying there has to be scum in the bloc. like I said I have no holistic opinion of the townbloc or its dynamics, I don't think I've even read up to or around when it formed.In post 2478, Kismet wrote:part of me feels like 2459 was an attempt to recover from a misstep made in 2458
if infinity is town, it really shouldn't at all imply that vft is scum due to anything related to 1768
just don't know if that was a defensive move or if it was just a clarification =/- Infinity 324
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*deep breath*In post 2479, The Bulge wrote:doesn't make a difference here what I think you meant. it's scummy to lie and give false reasoning.
What was the original problem you had with my post?
What was the scum motivation to lie about that post?- The Bulge
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See this just tells me you think we're at an "agree to disagree" impasse, so why haven't you shifted the discussion to that? I said I don't like how you worded your earlier posts and felt it betrayed your scum alignment. You said your words didn't accurately reflect your thoughts. I don't believe that and no amount of backpedalling will convince me to. so I'm taking your original statements at face value. yet you continue to try and justify them to me? you're flailing.In post 2473, Infinity 324 wrote:
It's because I thought it was pretty clear what I meant to begin with, to be fair I didn't quite understand the problem you had with my posting and I thought the explanation was more obvious than it actually was. I still don't think a townie would make as big a deal out of this as you are, because my point still holds if there's no scum in the townbloc. My wording just wrongly implied that I believe such a scum exists.In post 2451, The Bulge wrote:I don't think you want your points and thought process to be fully laid out on display and explored and have all its holes exposed. the stretching and backpedalling and retroactive justification is spinning it all into a more convoluted web. if you were town being incorrectly pushed for a take you feel has been misinterpreted, I would expect some kind of summary, or alternate explanation, or a dumbed down version at least. instead I get stuff like you quoting the same post I have a problem with twice in a row as if that should be convincing me of anything new. you're looking for evidence that you didn't let your perspective slip instead of just explaining what you meant.- Infinity 324
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To me the fact that the presence of a word could've solved your entire problem probably means you should've taken a more inquisitive approach rather than "wow look at this obvscum"In post 2479, The Bulge wrote:this is just more of the same damage-control-type responses I've been so far unsatisfied with, so no.- Infinity 324
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I have a very difficult time believing that you think a townie couldn't misword something as I did (putting aside the backpedaling stuff).In post 2482, The Bulge wrote:See this just tells me you think we're at an "agree to disagree" impasse, so why haven't you shifted the discussion to that? I said I don't like how you worded your earlier posts and felt it betrayed your scum alignment. You said your words didn't accurately reflect your thoughts. I don't believe that and no amount of backpedalling will convince me to. so I'm taking your original statements at face value. yet you continue to try and justify them to me? you're flailing.- The Bulge
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quite simply, it looks like tmi. is tmi that blatant something scum will slip up on? maybe not. on it's own it confuses me, but it's fishy. so I express that. it's not fishy enough on it's own to equate to a full scumread in a vacuum. what makes you definitively scum to me, though, is that I believe you lied to me in your explanation.In post 2481, Infinity 324 wrote:
*deep breath*In post 2479, The Bulge wrote:doesn't make a difference here what I think you meant. it's scummy to lie and give false reasoning.
What was the original problem you had with my post?
What was the scum motivation to lie about that post?
the scum motivation to lie about it is so they won't get caught doing tmi I suppose?- The Bulge
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(I won't be doing this)In post 2484, Infinity 324 wrote:(putting aside the backpedaling stuff).- The Bulge
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do you think I'm confbiased somehow?In post 2483, Infinity 324 wrote:
To me the fact that the presence of a word could've solved your entire problem probably means you should've taken a more inquisitive approach rather than "wow look at this obvscum"In post 2479, The Bulge wrote:this is just more of the same damage-control-type responses I've been so far unsatisfied with, so no.- Infinity 324
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How can you interpret something as TMI if you don't understand what it means?In post 2485, The Bulge wrote:quite simply, it looks like tmi. is tmi that blatant something scum will slip up on? maybe not. on it's own it confuses me, but it's fishy. so I express that. it's not fishy enough on it's own to equate to a full scumread in a vacuum. what makes you definitively scum to me, though, is that I believe you lied to me in your explanation.
the scum motivation to lie about it is so they won't get caught doing tmi I suppose?- Infinity 324
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I think you're very confbiased if town yeahIn post 2487, The Bulge wrote:
do you think I'm confbiased somehow?In post 2483, Infinity 324 wrote:
To me the fact that the presence of a word could've solved your entire problem probably means you should've taken a more inquisitive approach rather than "wow look at this obvscum"In post 2479, The Bulge wrote:this is just more of the same damage-control-type responses I've been so far unsatisfied with, so no.- The Bulge
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so vaguely shading the entire group of Extremely Obvious Townies without further developing that thought is the more town-looking move? pleaseIn post 2475, Infinity 324 wrote:
If me, bork, VFT, and notsci are all transparently town, it makes sense why peta didn't want to point to a specific scum in that group because...we're all transparently town.In post 2454, The Bulge wrote:
my interpretation of this line is "peta didn't want to shake things up too much because the actual townies in the bloc were all transparently so, and he didn't want to risk blowing his partner's deep cover"In post 1768, Infinity 324 wrote:Peta didn't want to point to examples because the townies were all transparently town and he didn't want to sow paranoia on a buddy.
it doesn't make sense to say this at all if infinity doesn't think there is a partner in that bloc, regardless of any alternate theories she has given since then for why peta might have done that.- Infinity 324
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That's fine, I'm just saying that I don't necessarily have a problem with that reasoning because I can't judge it from an unbiased perspective.In post 2486, The Bulge wrote:
(I won't be doing this)In post 2484, Infinity 324 wrote:(putting aside the backpedaling stuff).- Infinity 324
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It's probably more effective at least (in a vacuum one of 4 players being scum is a lot more likely than any particular one), and I do think he'd have gotten a lot of pushback if he tried to argue a particular scumread in that groupIn post 2490, The Bulge wrote:so vaguely shading the entire group of Extremely Obvious Townies without further developing that thought is the more town-looking move? please
Is there any way you think I should be approaching this differently as town?- Infinity 324
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I guess part of what's frustrating me about this interaction is that I don't normally expect my reasoning to be 100% clear to people and often expect to have to be asked clarifying questions to sort things out. So when I do that and then am told that I'm lying it's like wtf do you want me to do? I also tend to be quite careful expressing opinions as scum, as I think most people are, so I don't really have a reason to lie about what I said because I already thought it through. If I'm trying to be unbiased, I think you have a decent chance of being town, especially if NM flips scum, but if you are town you're sorting me in totally the wrong way.- The Bulge
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I still feel very strongly that you're looking for reasons you can give that make me look wrong, instead of focusing on ensuring I properly understand your stance. it's reactive, not proactive. your words suggest I am missing something that you're saying, but your actions seem defensive, like I'm striking a nerve. town wouldn't feel so nervous here, because there's no other outside pressure from any other slot atm, and my word alone doesn't carry much weight in this game.Infinity 324 wrote:Is there any way you think I should be approaching this differently as town?- The Bulge
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Ok, is there anything you still don't understand (even if you don't believe it?)
It's possible I'm approaching this unnecessarily defensively. The frustration I talked about above is probably why- Iverson
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Might be time for me to retire as a mafia player and just play video games all day instead.
I feel like I understand what that sentence said from Infinity yet somehow struggle to make it through the explanation, and the lack of explanation would not have particularly bothered me to begin with, so I'm kind of just ?_?- Infinity 324
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Idk why scum sends bulge to solo push me, if there are more townread members of the scumteam then that would give the push a lot more legitimacy. Even just a quantity of people pushing on me would help to give it more legitimacy. Scum play is messier that I'm describing here but I think if scum!bulge wanted to push me he would probably not go all out? - Infinity 324
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