Newbie 2061 | Views of Tallinn | Town wins

[lendunistus]

Majority has been reached and

T3

has been eliminated! Their role was...

Vanilla Townie

Spoiler: Role PM

Vanilla Townie

Welcome!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

You have no special abilities.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

[lendunistus]

Day 3 has ended and Night 3 has begun!

Night 3 will end on the 3rd of May, Monday, 2021 at 8am EDT. (If you would like the night to end sooner, send me a PM requesting me to do so; once every living player has requested a fast night and all night actions have been submitted, the night will end as soon as possible)

Night actions may be submitted until 7:50am EDT on the 3rd of May, Monday, 2021.

Night 3 Deadline: (expired on 2021-05-03 15:00:00)

apologies for the inconsistent deadline, i'm not able to start the night at 12am-1am EDT

[lendunistus]

Pearofclubs

has died! Their role was...

Vanilla Townie

Spoiler: Role PM

Vanilla Townie

Welcome!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

You have no special abilities.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

[lendunistus]

Day 4 has begun!

Day 4 will end when majority is reached or on the 10th of May, Monday, 2021 at 9am EDT, at which point there will be no elimination.

You may now post!

[Meuh]

[Meuh]

This is not what I had in mind when I told Marci we were gonna carry town

I think all 3 of us were viable kills, of the opinion that Catboi's our last maf atm but I'll have to do some rereading, I was gonna do some during the night but then I remembered that if I did there was a 1/3 chance I wouldn't even get to share what I got out of it

MELO's so scary why didn't you guys kill me

[Meuh]

I asked everyone about people I wanted them to elaborate their read on, so either people they haven't or barely have mentioned/interacted with so we can build a fuller picture of the game, I feel like the partners are probably not interacting much, so asking these questions could help bait out scum/scum interactions, which would probably be pretty great.

I ask because it struck me as the sort of move that is designed to appear like someone is being helpful on the surface but is largely directionless and accomplishes nothing, a maneuver I've attempted as scum before. I don't think asking people for opinions on others based on putting names together seemingly at random accomplishes much.

---

I find myself with several people I fos, and not much in the way of townreads.

Fair enough, there's more meaningful ways to contribute, but like I've said before I was trying to paint a wider picture of the game. With the way this is going, I'm starting to feel like the partners are likely quiet and not interacting much, so forcing potential partners out of their comfort zone would be nice.

I feel like scum are fine with this gamestate, so I don't wanna be on either of these big wagons. VOTE:

Tori

I feel dumb for diverting that wagon that was 50% hitting scum now

[marcistar]

i got blocked again

[catboi]

First things first: please don't rush things by voting early. I know with 4 alive there's no possibility of a quickhammer with just 1 vote, but I'd like to avoid any sort of unnecessary risk. Make your intentions clear before voting and don't rush the day, out of respect for other players.


That being said, my first thought on entering the day was that I felt it was very hard the last couple of days to find someone who was scummy on their own merits, and that tends to happen when you're working from a false paradigm. The fact is I think Not_mafia almost certainly would have jailed lukewarm the night he was killed. I also am skepptical that lukewarm-scum chooses to kill one of the people who was suspicious of me rather than marcistar, who was on my side. I think I was misclearing someone. And I intend to look back with that in mind.

[catboi]

marci:

did you breadcrumb or hint at your role prior to day 2?

[Meuh]

OOh dang spicy opening

[catboi]

I actually think I can towncase myself based on how Sama + VFP interacted with me, but that's not my main concern right now.

[Meuh]

My main issue here is that I don't really actively scumread anyone in the game, it's just about who I feel the

less good

about, not who I feel

worse

about yknow? There's been a lot of that this game actually
Also I'm gonna outwardly claim VT if that's relevant to anything at all, although I think I've made it pretty clear

[Meuh]

I'm going over Catboi's end of day 1 and I still can't shrug off the way he acted, he was discussing how a town flip on me or Norwee would suck considering our activity in 322 and having Norwee as second highest town in 239, then Norwee posts 361 and suddenly Catboi's completely alarmed. I have a hard time believing someone would jump over completely over that singular post, Catboi in particular I don't think seems like the kind of player to do that. It feels opportunistic. Even if you use Norwee being one of the only wagons at the time, so was I, you'd have to consider that I was bottom 3 on the same readslist I've linked, and while he does voice reconsideration of his read on me (in 372 for example), that's still a huge jump in a read in a short span of time.

Catboi also had an interest in keeping me alive because I was one of the people shifting away from him and diverting that target to others and posts like Marci's 303 shade Catboi if I were to flip town (and that post would attract Catboi's attention particularly considering Sama would be his partner here) he also seems particularly discontent with 303 with what he said in 329, where he goes after Marci's reasoning against at least one of me and him being scum, and thus indirectly discrediting the link Marci establishes between me and Sama

It seems very reasonable of a theory to me that Catboi started getting worried that a townflip on me would lead to him and Sama being caught soon after, and seeing an opportunity to hop on Norwee, took it and then tried to gain towncred with the unvote in 416

[catboi]

Any PR claim would be a counterclaim to marcistar, so that was obvious enough.

I have thoughts already based on a quick search + skim of ISOs but I want to hear from marci and Lukewarm first.

[catboi]

I'm going over Catboi's end of day 1 and I still can't shrug off the way he acted, he was discussing how a town flip on me or Norwee would suck considering our activity in 322 and having Norwee as second highest town in 239, then Norwee posts 361 and suddenly Catboi's completely alarmed. I have a hard time believing someone would jump over completely over that singular post, Catboi in particular I don't think seems like the kind of player to do that. It feels opportunistic. Even if you use Norwee being one of the only wagons at the time, so was I, you'd have to consider that I was bottom 3 on the same readslist I've linked, and while he does voice reconsideration of his read on me (in 372 for example), that's still a huge jump in a read in a short span of time.

Catboi also had an interest in keeping me alive because I was one of the people shifting away from him and diverting that target to others and posts like Marci's 303 shade Catboi if I were to flip town (and that post would attract Catboi's attention particularly considering Sama would be his partner here) he also seems particularly discontent with 303 with what he said in 329, where he goes after Marci's reasoning against at least one of me and him being scum, and thus indirectly discrediting the link Marci establishes between me and Sama

It seems very reasonable of a theory to me that Catboi started getting worried that a townflip on me would lead to him and Sama being caught soon after, and seeing an opportunity to hop on Norwee, took it and then tried to gain towncred with the unvote in 416

Meuh, my reads as town tend to fluctuate wildly because I get paranoid and suspicious easily. As scum it does not benefit me to change my position so rapidly - look at the end of day 1, Samawoodo wasn't really in danger, I wasn't in much danger, it benefits me much more to sstay consistent in my read on norwee, and then if he gets eliminated, I can claim I was right. As scum it's beneficial to maintain a steady consistency in your reads, where me flipping just to get an elim on norwee would put me in a noticeably worse position when town would likely have elimmed wrong anyway.

My read change on Norwee was a big fail but I tend to overreact a lot. You are making the mistake of reading into erratic/irrational behavior and assuming it is scummy, when often the opposite is true - scum know their objectives and can maintain stances that looks good. They don't have to change positions based on new information. To that end, sacrificing my towncred just to get rid of norwee isn't a move I would make as scum. I'd just protest and hope it goes through anyway with the deadline as an excuse.


If you really insist on going down this road, I'm going to repeat that I really do think that the way Samawoodo and VFP interacted with me should be enough to clear me.

[Meuh]

I'm going over Catboi's end of day 1 and I still can't shrug off the way he acted, he was discussing how a town flip on me or Norwee would suck considering our activity in 322 and having Norwee as second highest town in 239, then Norwee posts 361 and suddenly Catboi's completely alarmed. I have a hard time believing someone would jump over completely over that singular post, Catboi in particular I don't think seems like the kind of player to do that. It feels opportunistic. Even if you use Norwee being one of the only wagons at the time, so was I, you'd have to consider that I was bottom 3 on the same readslist I've linked, and while he does voice reconsideration of his read on me (in 372 for example), that's still a huge jump in a read in a short span of time.

Catboi also had an interest in keeping me alive because I was one of the people shifting away from him and diverting that target to others and posts like Marci's 303 shade Catboi if I were to flip town (and that post would attract Catboi's attention particularly considering Sama would be his partner here) he also seems particularly discontent with 303 with what he said in 329, where he goes after Marci's reasoning against at least one of me and him being scum, and thus indirectly discrediting the link Marci establishes between me and Sama

It seems very reasonable of a theory to me that Catboi started getting worried that a townflip on me would lead to him and Sama being caught soon after, and seeing an opportunity to hop on Norwee, took it and then tried to gain towncred with the unvote in 416

Meuh, my reads as town tend to fluctuate wildly because I get paranoid and suspicious easily. As scum it does not benefit me to change my position so rapidly - look at the end of day 1, Samawoodo wasn't really in danger, I wasn't in much danger, it benefits me much more to sstay consistent in my read on norwee, and then if he gets eliminated, I can claim I was right. As scum it's beneficial to maintain a steady consistency in your reads, where me flipping just to get an elim on norwee would put me in a noticeably worse position when town would likely have elimmed wrong anyway.

My read change on Norwee was a big fail but I tend to overreact a lot. You are making the mistake of reading into erratic/irrational behavior and assuming it is scummy, when often the opposite is true - scum know their objectives and can maintain stances that looks good. They don't have to change positions based on new information. To that end, sacrificing my towncred just to get rid of norwee isn't a move I would make as scum. I'd just protest and hope it goes through anyway with the deadline as an excuse.


If you really insist on going down this road, I'm going to repeat that I really do think that the way Samawoodo and VFP interacted with me should be enough to clear me.

Is Lukewarm scum then?

[catboi]

I think it's marcistar, actually, if my very leading question did not make it clear. On day 2, because of Not_Mafia's fakeclaim, I had mentally calibrated to both PR claims being confirmed town. When he flipped jailkeeper, I completely forgot that there's a setup with a jailkeeper and no tracker (I'm not used to this new newbie setup, I've played 1 real game on it). It's very unfortunate but I nly realized it after T3 flipped and I was left wondering to myself who N_M jailed if not Lukewarm. And that was when I realized marcistar wasn't clear at all.

[Meuh]

I think it's marcistar, actually, if my very leading question did not make it clear. On day 2, because of Not_Mafia's fakeclaim, I had mentally calibrated to both PR claims being confirmed town. When he flipped jailkeeper, I completely forgot that there's a setup with a jailkeeper and no tracker (I'm not used to this new newbie setup, I've played 1 real game on it). It's very unfortunate but I nly realized it after T3 flipped and I was left wondering to myself who N_M jailed if not Lukewarm. And that was when I realized marcistar wasn't clear at all.

I looked over the setup earlier and considered this too, yeah, and it is a possibility. Just wanted to make sure I knew where your mind was you could've also just randomly started pushing on me though, I could've seen you just send a wall explaining why everything anyone thought about the game was completely wrong and I was scum
Honestly if Marci were to be a fakeclaim, I do think I was the best person to fakeclaim to have tracked, since I had already heavily hinted towards being VT, was widely townread and she had the precedent to be tracking me.

[catboi]

To be honest, there were some things that were unsettling to me in your ISO, I don't think your stance on Sama/VFP clears you, but there were a few things in your favor. First of all, the report - although it's possible for a roleblocker to no-visit on night 1, I think very few teams would actually do so.

Secondly, there's this post:

OOOOOHHH I just got voted how nice ummm I mean I haven't really done much either...Ok here's a sus, @NorwegianboyEE maybe...? I mean they seem kinda mean...hehehe

It was not about what you did, it was about what you could do and how

Actually

Uhhh I've played a few mafia games but not in this format..(how does one quote)

I'm not sure yet but I think there's at least one mafia between Meuh, Norweegian, and iN3kor

Umm "I think there's at least one mafia between Meuh, Norweegian, and iN3kor" When I play mafia, I usually narrow down to a group of people that all act differently(this could be just the person but...). At that moment, I though meuh was quite odd because of how they had some interesting early town reads, then also Norweegian I thought was constantly talking about somewhat random mafia-ish topics(distracting?), and iN3krO is just kinda coasty(maybe only at the moment idk) So...

I like what you said about Meuh

, and i dont like the timing when marcistar said they knew irl (but it could be just a coincidence) thought it could help us to understand the interactions between them.

I'm not agree with Norweegian thought, could you tell me where those (random mafia-ish) posts are?

Bolding is mine - I don't think scum leaps to an immediate agreement with the first person to suspect their partner.

Next, there's this very early game excange:

Hello everyone!

@Samawoodo - Are you mafia?

My my, testing your scum detector?

I could try mine later aswell

I'm not btw, are you?

ofc not i would never be evil

Would you say evil doesn't fit you?

Actually i'd like to look for reactions aswell so

VOTE:

Toriiiiiiiiiiii

My first mafiascum vote!

Evil doesn't fit me cause I've gotta be here to carry the town to victory Haven't rolled it yet though so idk if I'm good at it at all

Also nice job on casting your first vote, hope you enjoy your first game looking for reactions early is always a good idea

Any off-site experience, if you don't mind me asking?

No problem, i dont mind at all!

Yeah, i played several games but this is my first one here

Actually, this is my first english game (im spanish) and im very excited!

Although I've seen experienced players banter and joke about being scum with each other on page 1, I actually think it's fairly rare behavior for newbies to act this way - they're too afraid of seeming partnered so they would typically tend to avoid interactions like this. The tendency is to be more distant and cautious. Is this a strong read? Hardly. But it's a small point of evidence that I lean toward being towny.

I also think on play alone you've been town, and I picked up on the self-sacrificing VT thing on day 1 in your response to pressure. I think you're most likely town.

[Meuh]

omg looking back at that exchange a MeuhxSama team would be hilarious
I didn't take a very harsh stance against Sama yeah, I didn't ever feel strongly about him so I don't really think you can clear me much on the basis of his flip

Marci is definitely different this game, but I wrote it off as her playing PR for the first time, but that could also just be scum!Marci.

[catboi]

My skim made me think it was her, I'm a bit wary of conf-biasing myself because that was my thought almost right after we went into night phase, but I'll assemble a case as to why I think that.

As for Lukewarm, I really do think they wouldn't be likely to join VFP in pushing their target, it's as simple as that. I also think in3 just doesn't try to bus Samawoodo right away at the start of day 2 if they're partnered.

[Meuh]

My skim made me think it was her, I'm a bit wary of conf-biasing myself because that was my thought almost right after we went into night phase, but I'll assemble a case as to why I think that.

As for Lukewarm, I really do think they wouldn't be likely to join VFP in pushing their target, it's as simple as that. I also think in3 just doesn't try to bus Samawoodo right away at the start of day 2 if they're partnered.

Yeah, those things make sense, plus both players on the slot have generally engaged in pretty non-scummy behaviour generally speaking imo

[marcistar]

marci:

did you breadcrumb or hint at your role prior to day 2?

I don't think I have, I usually try not to hint at my role earlier than I have to, because i'm aware at how utterly

bad and obvious

it is when I try.. why? (:

I think it's marcistar, actually, if my very leading question did not make it clear. On day 2, because of Not_Mafia's fakeclaim, I had mentally calibrated to both PR claims being confirmed town. When he flipped jailkeeper, I completely forgot that there's a setup with a jailkeeper and no tracker (I'm not used to this new newbie setup, I've played 1 real game on it). It's very unfortunate but I nly realized it after T3 flipped and I was left wondering to myself who N_M jailed if not Lukewarm. And that was when I realized marcistar wasn't clear at all.

So you think i'm not actually tracker right..? What made you jump to that conclusion first?

[Meuh]

I do want to point out that rbing Marci would be the correct play for the A2 scumteam, so her being rbed over N_M 2 nights ago doesn't mean anything regarding her alignment.