DEFCON Mafia 5.0: GAME OVER - NEW AMERICA FORMED

[SirCakez]

oops >.<
Ignore that first part (remnant of copy-pasting old message), it's just a flavored prod.

[Mognet]

I think I'm not sure I'm uncertain I don't know

these are all true things about me and I will continue to express myself this way for as long as I play mafia

Again this is a misrep. Being uncertain is fine. It’s what you’re uncertain about that is a problem.

[Mognet]

I'm starting to scumread Mognet, I actually have a really hard time believing that his contributions are coming from town because ever since he replaced in it feels like he has just stayed in the thread ever since and when I actually read his posts I feel like a lot of his contributions are being overplayed and faked. It really looks like he wants to look like town rather than just be town. I also feel like he's using this replace in to try to leave a good impression on people.

1452 also kind of doesn't fly w/ me?

We can use this to validate if you are scum fear pushing Mastina or trying to replicate a “I always push Mastina” habit or an intentional bus or just you hate playing with Mastina enough it clouded your judgment.

Why would LLD fear mastina? I find it hard to believe that LLD as scum would fear anyone.
Why would she try to replicate a "I always push mastina" habit when she could be doing quite possibly anything else? An elim is an elim sure but I'm sure LLD has better options that she look for or create.
Also the "you just hate playing w/ mastina enough it clouded your judgment" seems really silly to me tbh.

Kupo what the fuck is this?
I replace in, poke people and get people to play mafia so I am scum?
Like getting reads or anything was pulling teeth.
And I can’t very well be leaving a good impression if I am not leaving a good impression like that entire paragraph is unintelligible word vomit Church Kupo.

If LLD is scum, then she would have reason to fear Mastina if LLD wants a game where no one is thinking. You’re picking at minutia to avoid the trees. The idea with that list was not to be an exclusive one but to say if/when LLD answers we can use it to sort her.

[Mognet]

I'm starting to scumread Mognet, I actually have a really hard time believing that his contributions are coming from town because ever since he replaced in it feels like he has just stayed in the thread ever since and when I actually read his posts I feel like a lot of his contributions are being overplayed and faked. It really looks like he wants to look like town rather than just be town. I also feel like he's using this replace in to try to leave a good impression on people.

1452 also kind of doesn't fly w/ me?

We can use this to validate if you are scum fear pushing Mastina or trying to replicate a “I always push Mastina” habit or an intentional bus or just you hate playing with Mastina enough it clouded your judgment.

Why would LLD fear mastina? I find it hard to believe that LLD as scum would fear anyone.
Why would she try to replicate a "I always push mastina" habit when she could be doing quite possibly anything else? An elim is an elim sure but I'm sure LLD has better options that she look for or create.
Also the "you just hate playing w/ mastina enough it clouded your judgment" seems really silly to me tbh.

oh and remember

this slot apparently scumreads Mastina, according to them. They're not defending Mastina.

Correct LLD. I did not defend Mastina. You say this very sarcastically but again, you dodge the question I asked to do so. Mastina will be hammered, I have noted this several times. I am just attempting to get reads before nightfall and one of those is on Mastina so I won’t assume her alignment either way.

[The Church of Skitter]

Haven't been this confident in a scumread in a long time tbh.

On Mognet?

If so, why does Mognet's joqiza case being bad make them scummy?

-S

his body of work reads like he's trying too hard to get recognized as town

[Mognet]

oh also, how the fuck do i have an "i always push mastina" habit.

i have countless games, including the fucking large normal in team mafia where i have told mastina she was wrong, but town, and proceeded to be frustrated and live with her for the rest of the game.

It's like i'm witnessing someone try to tell me who i am or how i play when they don't know me. like, use meta against me.... but not even bother to learn my meta.

god

Every game I have been provided you have either pushed or suggested Mastina sucks. That does imply a bias LLD. I have enough to read here already but I can already tell you have a...explosive playstyle ...sorry early morning Moogles struggle for words. Can you show me a game where you didn’t attack Mastina?

I think if you can my judgment is a bit hasty. If not then my point is correct then I believe. It is possible it was too hasty for overall meta but yet I don’t see what you’re pointing out this game that is scummy which tends me to believe it’s an overall bias thing. Hell you may even be right (again I need Mastina to post to help sort her) but you’re not really selling me your read is any good when I ask for an explanation or other reads in a polite manner and instead of addressing that you’re coming in and posting this.

[Mognet]

One thing that I didn't like about Mognet is their reply to me getting them a mastina scum game that they plead for. They then wanted me to do a meta comparison between the two games which is garbage to begin with. Yet if you wanted a mastina scumgame, wouldn't you do the comparison?

Trenchcoat Kupo I am sad. You disappoint me. I did bring up some Warehouse 13 elements and started on some comparisons. You realize it has been only a few hours since then and I have only touched the surface Kupo? I wanted literal things from you not a “touchy feely” one. Kupo I assure you I will be reading anything provided during the overnight but I think you might be scum here.

Once LLD and Church Kupo poked at me, then you piled on with “One thing I didn’t like...” this is a common scum ploy. You aren’t calling me scummy like LLD and Church are. You’re saying you don’t like it. Scum wouldn’t like having to explain a prior game at a high level. I can then take your high level and then look at the minutia for tone and playstyle myself.

Replacing in is not a instantly I have read everything Kupo. You strike me as experienced and therefore should know better.

[The Church of Skitter]

I don't scumread joqizahim but mognet picking at someone for hedging is a perfectly fine method of reading and his overall play is very town motivated

This take is extremely surface level dude.
First off its not a fine method of reading it straight up isn't something that scum actually does and the logic behind it is ass. His play is town motivated if you aren't reading the game closely and you just see his posts on a glance and go "oh ya this is town ig" but to me it reads like he's doing everything to look town. I think his stance on total war comes from scum who wants to stand out in a playerlist where everyone just wants to get to the nukes. I think he's being anti-total war because if ur scum in this pl and you try to hard to actually want to play mafia, you're probably going to get townread by a bunch of people who just want to get to the nukes as quickly as possible. This also allows him to establish a platform or a "bloc" that he can invade to make sure he doesn't get nuked later. It's like the entire theme of his play.

Oh and also joq is probably town which means its more likely for the dude to be scum.

[Mognet]

I also don't really think I like this joqiza push?

i think i'm willing to hammer mastina, but i want to give her a chance to speak first

I think you might be scum Dr. Strange Kupo.

I don't like committing to things unless I feel good about them.

It's hard to feel good about anything with 24p at the table and no one resolved.

That's basically the crux of the issue. I think I'll be more expressive once I see a flip.

This is why I think you’re not American. You keep hedging way too much. You think you’ll hammer but ...

That should just be I will hammer. You’re saying I think because it’s group pressure to hammer Mastina.

See here you’re being pressured about not having a read. Then you’ll be more expressive once you know? I mean it’s easy to get people right who have flipped.

So why does his phrasing make him scum? Why would scum do that? Why is that impossible for town to do? What's the benefit and why does that benefit make it worth doing? Hell, why would he, as a villager, be more sure of himself here anyways?

Everything being described here is based on magical thinking as opposed to logical thinking.

I read 1451 and I go "oh ok" and nod along
this guy sees it and goes "ya, I think it might be scum" ?????????

?

I said what I said about the hammer, I don't get why being uncertain is AI on D1 of a game. If you think it is, then you shouldn't.

Being more expressive about reads =/= being more expressive about the flipped slot... that's simply not what I'm saying. I'm saying the flip (not necessarily mastina's, but a flip in general) will help inform my reads on other slots.

You’re being uncertain about what you’re willing to do.

I think I’d hammer
I think I’d be more expressive.

It’s too vague and not about reads.

It’s like saying “I think I will tell you a scumread by Sunday” it’s too wishy washy. Either commit or don’t to an action. It’s got all sorts of wiggle room and no accountability,

Dude brings up a point, its D1, its the hardest day in any mafia game, but this guy is sayin "NOPE, you seem unsure on if you want to hammer or not so you must be scum."

So instead of
- addressing why being uncertain is alignment indicative on D1 of a game

we are instead
- doubling down and saying nothing new.
- trying to force down this black or white viewpoint of "commit or don't" which is not as black and white as being described.

I'll give him this, he does add something new to the post by saying that it gives all sorts of wiggle room w/ no accountability, but I'll also add his posts aren't good enough to actually provide that wiggle room and make it so he won't be held accountable. Oh also regardless of the flip no one is going to hold him accountable regardless even if mastina did speak and he did want to hammer her after she sneaked anyways.

I did address it Church Kupo.
Maybe I did so in a poor manner but I did address it Church Kupo.

The issue is not that it is he is uncertain it’s what he is uncertain about. His actions are always inside his control. If we assume Joqiza an American, then alignments and reads are unknown to him. So reads “I think X is an American is fine”. However inability to commit to an action is a common scumtell. So Joqiza is in my pile until Joqiza has something actionable.

[Mognet]

One thing that I didn't like about Mognet is their reply to me getting them a mastina scum game that they plead for. They then wanted me to do a meta comparison between the two games which is garbage to begin with. Yet if you wanted a mastina scumgame, wouldn't you do the comparison?

Oh ya I get the feeling that he doesn't actually want to do like, any actual work, like at all. Like, this is very like, results-based, but most of the people I've seen who tried to play the game as well as read up at the same time never actually get caught up and have generally always been scum.

Lmao. Church Kupo. This is hilarious. You have been stuck with replacements of poor caliber. I am very results based but I usually do read during the overnights. If I didn’t want to do any work I woulda just hammered Mastina and went onto the night. You’re being very illogical. Almost like you want me to shut up which is odd. I just have to figure out if you’re annoyed Kupo or scum Kupo.

[The Church of Skitter]

I'm starting to scumread Mognet, I actually have a really hard time believing that his contributions are coming from town because ever since he replaced in it feels like he has just stayed in the thread ever since and when I actually read his posts I feel like a lot of his contributions are being overplayed and faked. It really looks like he wants to look like town rather than just be town. I also feel like he's using this replace in to try to leave a good impression on people.

1452 also kind of doesn't fly w/ me?

We can use this to validate if you are scum fear pushing Mastina or trying to replicate a “I always push Mastina” habit or an intentional bus or just you hate playing with Mastina enough it clouded your judgment.

Why would LLD fear mastina? I find it hard to believe that LLD as scum would fear anyone.
Why would she try to replicate a "I always push mastina" habit when she could be doing quite possibly anything else? An elim is an elim sure but I'm sure LLD has better options that she look for or create.
Also the "you just hate playing w/ mastina enough it clouded your judgment" seems really silly to me tbh.

Kupo what the fuck is this?
I replace in, poke people and get people to play mafia so I am scum?
Like getting reads or anything was pulling teeth.
And I can’t very well be leaving a good impression if I am not leaving a good impression like that entire paragraph is unintelligible word vomit Church Kupo.

If LLD is scum, then she would have reason to fear Mastina if LLD wants a game where no one is thinking. You’re picking at minutia to avoid the trees. The idea with that list was not to be an exclusive one but to say if/when LLD answers we can use it to sort her.

Ya bro you're trying way too hard and it comes across as scummy.

if LLD wanted a game where no one is thinking there are better players go after than mastina. She has no reason to fear her. It's also a pretty garbage sorting attempt that probably just gets re-evaluated later and does nothing. tbh we'll probably not even come back to it so it actually just does nothing

[gorilla]

I don't scumread joqizahim but mognet picking at someone for hedging is a perfectly fine method of reading and his overall play is very town motivated

This take is extremely surface level dude.
First off its not a fine method of reading it straight up isn't something that scum actually does and the logic behind it is ass. His play is town motivated if you aren't reading the game closely and you just see his posts on a glance and go "oh ya this is town ig" but to me it reads like he's doing everything to look town. I think his stance on total war comes from scum who wants to stand out in a playerlist where everyone just wants to get to the nukes. I think he's being anti-total war because if ur scum in this pl and you try to hard to actually want to play mafia, you're probably going to get townread by a bunch of people who just want to get to the nukes as quickly as possible. This also allows him to establish a platform or a "bloc" that he can invade to make sure he doesn't get nuked later. It's like the entire theme of his play.

Oh and also joq is probably town which means its more likely for the dude to be scum.

Scum have rarely opposed total war in this setup and his reasoning was the reasoning many town players had when I first played this setup

Bad logic doesn't always come from. I've seen townies vote off terrible logic. I think what he is saying is understandable for a town aligned player even if I don't agree with it, and I think scum often like to attack townies with bad/illogical reads

[gorilla]

EBWOP:Bad logic doesn't always come from scum.

[Mognet]

What if Lady Lambdadelta is committing vehicular manslaughter over her buddy Mastina?

If she's bussing, who cares. A scum killed is a scum killed.

Seems like bad play in a game with a known SK though, and a town full of nukes. Like what's her end game? Why bus the ever living shit out of your teammate first chance you get?

I like polar bear Kupo’s question. Polar Bear Kupo can be town.

I will have to look more at LLD and find some games but she seems to me a player who would play aggressively no matter her alignment.

[Mognet]

Haven't been this confident in a scumread in a long time tbh.

On Mognet?

If so, why does Mognet's joqiza case being bad make them scummy?

-S

oh also, how the fuck do i have an "i always push mastina" habit.

I mean, your argument that mastina always ruins games and should be policy'd doesn't really make sense unless you do. So it's a pretty reasonable assumption.

-S

I like this.

A town block in my head is starting to form.

Good times. Will be ready to hammer after Alexandrian missives done later today.

[The Church of Skitter]

The issue is not that it is he is uncertain it’s what he is uncertain about. His actions are always inside his control. If we assume Joqiza an American, then alignments and reads are unknown to him. So reads “I think X is an American is fine”. However inability to commit to an action is a common scumtell. So Joqiza is in my pile until Joqiza has something actionable.

"common scumtell"
So you're actually not thinking at all because the game isn't this black and white. There are things like OMGUS and LAMIST and other buzzwords that people have used and historically speaking those things apparently catch scum but now those things end up being used by newer players that don't fundamentally understand how those things work along with other "common scumtells." To me this reads like you're just going after a "common scumtell" over actually use your brain and think "Is what this guy doing actually make him scum? Is this something that scum actually does? Why is he doing it? etc" and if you answered these questions then you'll find that your read is shit because you're going after a "common scumtell." It's a "common scumtell" so its gotta work!

[Mognet]

I think church is trying to string up mognet over an incorrect scumread and it's scummy. I don't scumread joqizahim but mognet picking at someone for hedging is a perfectly fine method of reading and his overall play is very town motivated

Yay! I have erected a house for you to come in for my block. Who else is in it gorilla?

Also let Church do their thing. They’re trying to sort me. I am not sure if it’s a scum thing or not yet but it is weird. I think LLD/Church/Titus has at least one Russian but Titus’s response seems way more scummy than Church’s.

[Mognet]

I'll hammer when I get off work today, which should be around 6pm cst

Limiting my catch-up time is scummy Kupo especially with no reads.

[Mognet]

[MCMAW SYSTEM] Attention Taskforce members, this is Command.

Soldier DeathNote has been sent a request for new messages.

Carry on soldiers.

Mod Kupo if you edit posts can you please leave the original in a spoiler please?
Thank you Mod Kupo!

[The Church of Skitter]

I'll hammer when I get off work today, which should be around 6pm cst

Limiting my catch-up time is scummy Kupo especially with no reads.

BRO YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN CATCHING UP YOU'VE JUST BEEN PLAYING SHUT THE FUCK UP

IF YOU'RE GOING TO CATCH UP AND READ THE GAME, GO FUCKING READ THE GAME INSTEAD OF PLAY

[Mognet]

Haven't been this confident in a scumread in a long time tbh.

On Mognet?

If so, why does Mognet's joqiza case being bad make them scummy?

-S

his body of work reads like he's trying too hard to get recognized as town

Then explain the difference. This seems like a naked claim.

[gorilla]

I think church is trying to string up mognet over an incorrect scumread and it's scummy. I don't scumread joqizahim but mognet picking at someone for hedging is a perfectly fine method of reading and his overall play is very town motivated

Yay! I have erected a house for you to come in for my block. Who else is in it gorilla?

Also let Church do their thing. They’re trying to sort me. I am not sure if it’s a scum thing or not yet but it is weird. I think LLD/Church/Titus has at least one Russian but Titus’s response seems way more scummy than Church’s.

I think Titus seems like disconnected town. I wouldn't take that read to the bank but it's what my gut says

[The Church of Skitter]

like bro why do you care if your catch-up time is being limited if you just read overnight. Like are you just saying shit just to say it? I don't get it

[samantha97]

BRO YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN CATCHING UP YOU'VE JUST BEEN PLAYING SHUT THE FUCK UP

IF YOU'RE GOING TO CATCH UP AND READ THE GAME, GO FUCKING READ THE GAME INSTEAD OF PLAY

[Nexus]

Moggers might be scum.