Open 809: Charge Me Up! [Over]

[VFP]

do you trust mathblade?

As town? Yes
To follow? No

[DkKoba]

robert's staying in there, but there's a free spot rn and i would hate to have to ask people to vote you if you're alive and its lylo after a theoretical town!robert flip.

Well I would have lim Robert but no one seemed interested.
Missed the train there.

I would have lim ND as well yesterday but also missed the train!

i was literally trying to make the vote between my current cc and a confirmed scum now, yesterday, so its like ? i already guiltied this mf first if you think about it theyre just trying to cc now with a fake guilty i guess. like i was a momentum swinging vote onto my scum partner d2 unless u wanna assume im exactly only partners with yesiree here?

[DkKoba]

do you trust mathblade?

As town? Yes
To follow? No

weird why not follow? after he hardpushed the wagon very early on a now flipped scum?

[VFP]

I forget most of what happened yesterday.
I think yessiree was town though.

[DkKoba]

Yessiree (3): NDMath, Robert M Hunter, Save The Dragons

This is what a scum wagon looks like.

this is what i quoted before vfp im pretty sure and said that this analysis pings town for you bc of the fact it calls out a confscum and the top POE person.

[DkKoba]

I forget most of what happened yesterday.
I think yessiree was town though.

and thus - i would have to be the dumbest mafia to not just tunnel onto a town ndmath and let yesiree die over scumpartner a50

[VFP]

weird why not follow? after he hardpushed the wagon very early on a now flipped scum?

I've played far too many games with Math to blindly follow.
It's no discredit to Math at all either.

[DkKoba]

but I am not the dumbest scum player - so it is an impossible situation after a50 flipped scum. and thus i should be cleared

[VFP]

Yessiree (3): NDMath, Robert M Hunter, Save The Dragons

This is what a scum wagon looks like.

this is what i quoted before vfp im pretty sure and said that this analysis pings town for you bc of the fact it calls out a confscum and the top POE person.

Oh, maybe I was right there.
I remember that post.

Well if you're town, scouts honour I go for ND then Robert.

[DkKoba]

but this game they literally already got 1 scum and i helped and he is townreading me here

[DkKoba]

or we can get it correct today and just win tomorrow

[DkKoba]

like i said - force ndmath to participate and show their colors. ive already explained many times over that ndmath has been way too shallow in relation to actual town!ndmath meta. town ndmath is way more decriptive in their read depth.


the fact ndmath like even has a pretend poe solve right away is crazy actually i just thought of this - like lets PRETEND ndmath actually is a legit watcher and they saw scum me visit flow. why does ndmath expect me to be there - why are they not surprised? why is their tone like matter of fact, like its something they expected + they even betray this tone with the poe they already had right there ready to go. town perspective there is to be more focused on how incredulous it is first and not have a team prepared there.

[VFP]

but this game they literally already got 1 scum and i helped and he is townreading me here

As I said, I've played enough with Math.
Math is just in my lim pile.

Did you know, last time me and Math played together, after scum was found Math wanted to push me as scum after I gave them NK immune and they were already more or less confirmed town (no lim possibility). And it was obvious that my bus driver action was involved in having a Mafia night kill themselves.
Who does that as scum? But yet Math was having me as scum.

This is an example to why I don't always trust Maths lead unless I have a good opinion on it too.

[VFP]

As I said, I've played enough with Math.
Math is just in my lim pile.

Never*

[DkKoba]

i mean like im pretty sure the case that i am town here is very compelling because i literally.. voted A50 at a point a scum would not.

[VFP]

@ND do something so I can either scum read you and move to you or keep my vote. The ball is in your court.
Ignoring this I'll just vote you

There you go Dk, I'm a willing person.

[DkKoba]

god i hate trying to self towncase while i am high that was literal brain pain LOL

[VFP]

Must be even harder as scum!

[Flea The Magician]

Jeeze another 5 pages on top... ok...

This needs my entire damned day apparently...

What song do I use....

[Flea The Magician]

Spoiler: Boys and girls of every age,

mathblade and I are clear ty

VOTE: dkkoba

I'm 1-Shot Watcher, koba was the only visitor lol.

I'd imagine that {Robert, Yes, Flea} is the gamewinning poe since two bussers could have easily instead got yes or me elim'd yesterday.

No opinion on associatives? Instead of "these people TR'd the scumz and HARDBUSSED TO THE NINTH LAYER OF THE INFERNAL DAMNATION THAT IS HELL." that is...

Why do you think scum!Koba tries to clear me out of the gate as scum?

Neither strategy makes sense for scum.

ND fake claiming a guilty on Koba seems dumb because we elim them the next day.
Koba faking a inno on me seems dumb when we said watchers on flow.

I just think Kona’s better than that. So I am confused.

From my own play as scum you don't clear Math as scum, a clear Math is a dangerous Math.

mathblade and I are clear ty

VOTE: dkkoba

I'm 1-Shot Watcher, koba was the only visitor lol.

I'd imagine that {Robert, Yes, Flea} is the gamewinning poe since two bussers could have easily instead got yes or me elim'd yesterday.

I would pick yes here if you’re town and Koba is scum and failing that Robert.

I don’t see Flea as scum here and Flea plus Koba would be better mechanically than to kill flow.

I dunno, honestly I can see me and Koba conflicting a little too much on kills. I like the principal of chaos and madness where Koba strikes me more as a WIFOM/Mech killer.

I'm desperadoing blade tonight

This is a bad idea.

Spoiler: Wouldn't you like to see something strange?

oh wait mathblade, you totally forgot, i'm totally the one leading the kill here as scum!!

yes 100%


me over anyone else here that is my theoretical scum partner here.

i cant believe you didnt have doubt over this claim and rather just immediately went into "what if this is svs?"

I did and still do actually.

I said either neither made sense.

Koba claim

that can be a surprise later - if you're gonna rush my elimination here then you're playing anti-town because we ASBSOLUTELY should take the time to talk when we have a nice old 50/50 going on here.

also my claim doesnt matter here - its either me or ndmath. im not gonna pretend like you think a claim is gonna make me more "credible" when scum were able to easily get their own PR roles clearly

I hate this.. it's standard Koba play, it's NAI, but I still hate it.

Spoiler: Come with us and you will see

who's my partner?

I was at Robert>Yes>Flea but Robert's voted you already so it's probably yessiree like andante is saying.
It doesn't make sense to be anyone on wagon since then you could have easily stopped A50's wagon.

nahh but ndmath really thought that he could frame me as:

leading kill

killing flow trap

not killing mathblade

like no?

Hey you're writing the argument for me.

Hmmmm....

ndmath immediately opening with a guilty is already scum indicative - town ndmath 100% hides the result and waits.


so yesiree is spewed town from this ->mathblade is town bc being leading vote on a50 wagon->andante also similarly double clear from notmafia desperado+d2 push onto a50+being pushed by ndmath d1->vfp very likely town for voting ndmath counterwagon while it was hot.

Not seeing how Yes is TS'd.

we can really like abandon the deepwolf idea, like i said, scum nd throwing themselves into the townblock = them keeping PoE further open.

it means the PoE is effective atm and we should be following it.

I don’t ever abandon a deep wolf idea sorry. Not my style

Tis true. If math doesn't suspect a deepwolf he's prolly scumz

I probably die tonight if Koba is scum

not the cleared watcher? OH WAIT!!! MY DESPERADO KILL!!!!

what watcher is cleared?

They will be tonight if they're right...
I don't like the odds on them being right.

Spoiler: This, our town of Halloween!

imma reread flea too

*Hands over some popcorn*

see yall on D4. I'm done here

Byeeee!

NDmath>Robert>STD should win the game no matter what

I think robert is the most incriminated based on how shitty their progression is on their partner, as soon as I'm pushing ND, robert popped in and tried to shade me, forgetting they were agreeing with my worldview just a few posts ago.

For me is the attempted attack on me, it's the tell of someone who hasn't played with me before and I find it SAI

[Flea The Magician]

Spoiler: This is Halloween! This is Halloween!

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Spoiler: Pumpkins scream in the dead of night!

i mean if town wants to be smart they can elim ndmath first - its a trade off either way, and nd already claimed 1 shot so not like u expect them to give more results.

OK straight up I think NDMath is the elim here. They've never quite reached TL territory for me while I've been strongly TR'ing Koba.
If they flip red, bonus, if they flip green, we should consider Koba.

From experience Hardbussing an inactive slot works freaking wonders. Remember Election Mafia, Math?

Spoiler: This is halloween! Everybody make a scene!

It’s unlikely. I feel that’s all I can say within the rules. Possible yes probable no.
And if you are you just die.

Because if I die and a scum NK then you’re a scum desperado confirmed which solves my problem.
Or you’re town desperado being very anti town arguing against solving the PoE and attacking one of the few players attempting a solve which means you’ll die
Or you’re lying scum and not desperado which is literally not a problem because you’ll never be able to prove yourself so you’ll be elimmed eventually.

So I give zero fucks other than it adds to my suspicion of you.

A deperado shot cannot be faked by scum at least, so there absolutely needs to be 2 kills tonight, and one of them needs to be Math or Andragon.

VOTE: DkKoba

I'll trade if ND is scum.
Dk is always the lim today but get anything.you need to off you're chests.

i mean do u townread me or do u townread ND - this is the question here.

there is no need to waste an elim on a floundering slot who decided to try to take me down with them since ive been pushing them since early on and already cased them based on the depth of their reads.

Before today you're town over ND.
However, I will always trade a town for scum in claims that aren't required. So I'm probably not the best person to try and convince here.

ND has no reason to call you out in particular. Its obvious that they are a Watcher (or if scum the team have a watcher). Unless CC I have lack of reason to dis believe it other than suspected to be the lim today. But that's down to end of comments yesterday.

I'll give the day a re read tomorrow though and see from there.

i mean like its clear what scum are trying to do and we can prevent them from widening PoE like they want to and keep it as narrow as we can lol

Like we needed more Koba Town proof.

Oh gods ya'll got busy.

V/LA today, will catchup tomorrow.

Hi me.

Am hoping to get thoughts from Yes and flea on koba/me since that's gonna be the most telling information in terms of partner.


@Andante Remind me why you don't think flea is the last scum? Looking at their iso they've been townreading A50/DMG since forever and had weird thoughts on koba. Particularly the thoughts in 1985 when flea had also sheeped koba multiple times earlier on. I also still don't understand their flowtrap tunnel.

A Mafia member can not perform a Nightkill and another action at the same Night.

This probably explains why koba was committing the kill actually.

Will come back to this later.

it's not like you get to call our shots....

I don't see any shot calling here, your defensivness isnt sitting well with me. While you're a

likely

desperado shot... I starting to get sus :/

Spoiler: Trick or treat till the neighbours gunna die of fright!

Also word of warning I am extremely disappointed and dysphoric due to something outside this game so if I take it out on you I am sorry.

*much much hugs*

Spoiler: It's our town! Everybody scream!

you keep saying this... there's literally no guarantee we have a watcher

If me and Dk are scum together then ND is 100% a Watcher.

If I were scum I would have killed Flow for the record.
Mainly to see if it clears not having a Watcher to use as an advantage.
If Dk said no to me in scum chat I'd call them chicken and they would go along with it.
This would have back fired on us, but in the long run we tried a risky play.

It is actually highly likely that me and Dk are scum buddies here. I will be willing to sacrifice my buddy before me as well.

I meant it like, maf don't know for sure if there's a watcher, so they can easily just hit flow... Blade is acting like maf knew for sure there was one

This is a blatant misrep.

What I am saying is that multiple players all of whom cannot be scum suggested to watch flow.

That means that it is likely scum would not kill flow. The fact they did means either no watcher or planned substandard kill. Considering they just lost A50 the first is more likely.

I'm confused by what you mean by no watcher. If I were a scumwatcher there would still be the possibility of a town watcher.

I am kinda wanting to elim ND because Koba’s really seeming to wim than ND

I'm obviously biased but I don't see much impressive.
They're just omgusing Robert while acting like they're open-minded about it, and making questionable arguments that they[koba] are town.

I think scum would redirect flow onto themselves or flow forgot.

The reason being is that if they have flow eat the message if someone was a jailkeeper or roleblocker or doctor that saved flow then flow still looks bad. That’s my hunch. Admittedly can’t prove it as no access to scum PT but redirect flow to himself makes sense

Though they really should have just let flow send the message. Flow was obvTown anyway damage minimal.

There was only one visitor on flow, their message could not have been redirected.
And having one scum kill and another redirect that same player is a horrible mech play.

thinking out loud here

the watcher claim by scum!ND seems dangerous because if there's a(nother) watcher they'd be on flow, they'd be able to say they didn't see ND on flow thus proving ND a liar pretty quick. that makes me think scum or town, ND is a watcher and probably watched flow last night.

if scum have a redirector and used it on flow to gain his message, then it's ND as a watcher so the other scum would be a redirector. i'm having trouble seeing them not just redirecting to scum and letting flow take heat for the message.

they'd have to know not_mafia was a desparado though to redirect his target from Andante to some one else. that seems rather unlikely, and it seems unlikely that N_M killed desparado'd someone else on purpose, so i think Andante is pretty safe for me.

i don't find the scum redirector theory very likely at this juncture

Same point as above, having two scum visit the kill is a highly risky play and should be apparent as not the case with the speed I claimed the watcher result.

robert do you have any thoughts besides voting koba

Yeah

I have no idea what's happening with redirectors and all that mechanical stuff, I need it explained slowly.

Ignoring the mech stuff, what are those thoughts?

Anyone else think this is a scumspew?

i think mostly i'm curious about the lack of message at this point. A redirector could explain it but seems highly unlikely.

i'm a little surprised andante didn't get the message, tbh, based on their rapport, but if flow thought andante might die, he might have picked a different target.

@Flea, @yes, did you get a message last night from flow?

I would've claimed it in my first post given the death.

I think flow targetted scum. which honestly would be either Flow targetted Andragon or Koba, I'd need to go look for crumbs.

yay tinfoiling -.-;

Spoiler: In this town of Halloween!

I received a belated message from the mod that Flow Trap is town.

Well there goes my theory, still gunna crumb hunt.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Charge_Me_Up!

im looking at the wiki for this setup specifically

To be clear the wiki interpretation would win here.
So now that that’s straight.

Let’s probably elim Koba who flips town.
Then Andraste shoots ND or it’s a scum claim
Then we elim ND/Andraste

Or Koba is scum and this is literally all spew and go back to sorting if ND is genuine or if this is a gambit or wth happened.

This is the math I know and love.

[Flea The Magician]

That's all for now on catchup...

Am hoping to get thoughts from Yes and flea on koba/me since that's gonna be the most telling information in terms of partner.


@Andante Remind me why you don't think flea is the last scum? Looking at their iso they've been townreading A50/DMG since forever and had weird thoughts on koba. Particularly the thoughts in 1985 when flea had also sheeped koba multiple times earlier on. I also still don't understand their flowtrap tunnel.

A Mafia member can not perform a Nightkill and another action at the same Night.

This probably explains why koba was committing the kill actually.

OK so 1) Its evident you're scumreading me, yay I love it.
2) Why? I want some meat to go with the bones at least. Give me fluff and amma yeet you, what you've given is bearly bones.
3) Convince me why to vote koba instead of just the guilty.

[Flea The Magician]

4) Why if you're so keen on me being the last scum, do you want my thoughts on this rather amusing 1vs1?

[VFP]

5) Flea might be scum.

[Flea The Magician]

I'm always scum, you know this.