Micro 1010: Divide and Conquer: Round 2 - Game Over!

[Bingle]

Do y’all think Marcistar is samey as in the newbie game or different/townie?

For clarification, I don't think she's particularly towny here. I think she was very towny there and the night and day difference should at the very least raise eyebrows, particularly with the mindset of "she's playing to her scum meta".

[Hopkirk]

Elaborating, poorly, on why you're town and then explicitly dodging a response to the thing I'd brought up in the neighborhood.

What did i dodge?

Also, other things he doesn't want to share but totally exist.

'Doesn't want to share' you say?

was this

Hoppy, when did you talk to FL about norwee?

in response to

Kanna, Flavor Leaf, A50, Flopz, and Isis have all brought it up at different points actually. it might be some kind of sitewide meme i guess?

a serious question? it's fairly obvious i haven't talked to those 5 people (including Flopz) about norway's meta. how did my response to this impact your read and why are you imaging a scum!hop who would be 'told not to worry' about it?

the toxicity complaints form Norway were in team mafia, not some random game i wouldn't have read

what are your issues with my reasons to TR norway

calling me performative is a big wow

Asking what I was waiting for him to respond to after answering both of my posts directly targeted to him.

where's this?

[Hopkirk]

trying to draw my attention away from looking for scum with a shitpush?

[Lukewarm]

Do y’all think Marcistar is samey as in the newbie game or different/townie?

I think that there are parts shining through that are the same, but that feels like just who Marci is as a person tbh. The thing that is different, from my PoV is that her first 3 posts in the last game were all clearly trying to build up the banter with Meuh. And when I tried to banter with her this game, she called me out over in. Both here and in the neighborhood. (so I think in the first game, he goal was to build rapport with Meuh. In this game it was figuring out my alignment)

As for the similarities, I remember, Meuh, who had the most experience playing with her put this

It's mostly meta, Marci just seems to be acting naturally. Nothing seems off about her gameplay, her habits and thought processes are the same, she's been extremely consistent with her other town games

So at least some of it is her personality is shining through regardless of alignment.

Norwee, if you were scum, after having seen her scum game, and knowing that would mean 2 of the town players just witnessed it, would you think she would be safe as the 6p choice?

If yes, why?
If no, why do you think Not_Mafia or Bingle would have made that choice?

[Bingle]

what are your issues with my reasons to TR norway

In a full 50% of games, Norway is scum. You spend your first two posts posting a guide to playing well as scum and establishing specifically that you think Norwee has a weak scumgame. When pushed, you justify this based on meta provided from 5 people: 4 of whom would be incredibly unlikely to share that fmpov. I focused on FL, because he literally siteflaked in the aftermath of a game where he leaned heavily into the narrative that Norwee was the deepwolf. You know, the game Norwee was complaining about FL's (among others) toxicity.

Four pages later you come back with a comment about how you have reasons to townread Norwee, but "who cares about sorting the small hood". This, notably is the entirety of your ISO with the exception of a naked RVS vote on Luke.

[Bingle]

where's this?

Spoiler: Nearly Sequential Posts in YOUR ISO

nice, GL is the obvtown between GL/Lukewarm

three or four things from Norway feel much more likely to come from town but who cares about sorting the small hood

- first post about 'fuck being in the 3p hood'
- being toxic to NM after reading his comments complaining about scum being toxic being personally upsetting to him like a week ago. either lacks self awareness and is doing it as scum to be unpleasant, memeing, theater, or town. vibes most as town there
- amount of posts
other stuff but those are three of them so it fills the 3-4 i mentioned to t h e letter

Elaborate, please.

Hoppy, when did you talk to FL about norwee?

Me and hectic got lost backpacking and ended up in Norway one time and we saw this film set and Hectic was all like 'hey hop, isn't that flavour leaf working on the lighting tech'. i thought he was joking but it turned out that it actually was FL, then when we went over to say hi we all started joking about how it's weird that it wasn't Norway we met since we were in Norway at the time and FL started going on this long rant about how Norway has low WIM as scum or something...

Disagree. We've talked about Dunn, I'm waiting for a response from Hopkirk, and I agree with your logic on GL given his response. Luke and Scamp both strike me as the kind where their alignment will be more obvious if I let them do their thing and I can afford to be a passive observer on marci at the moment.

Sometimes, it's better to know how to let the thread breathe to get reads.

what were you waiting on a response from me on?

nice, GL is the obvtown between GL/Lukewarm

three or four things from Norway feel much more likely to come from town but who cares about sorting the small hood

Elaborate, please.

Hoppy, when did you talk to FL about norwee?

Me and hectic got lost backpacking and ended up in Norway one time and we saw this film set and Hectic was all like 'hey hop, isn't that flavour leaf working on the lighting tech'. i thought he was joking but it turned out that it actually was FL, then when we went over to say hi we all started joking about how it's weird that it wasn't Norway we met since we were in Norway at the time and FL started going on this long rant about how Norway has low WIM as scum or something...

just reposting this with my response not within quotes because messed up

- first post about 'fuck being in the 3p hood'
- being toxic to NM after reading his comments complaining about scum being toxic being personally upsetting to him like a week ago. either lacks self awareness and is doing it as scum to be unpleasant, memeing, theater, or town. vibes most as town there
- amount of posts
other stuff but those are three of them so it fills the 3-4 i mentioned to t h e letter

[Bingle]

I’m not sure Bingle is genuine about his suspicion on whether i am being genuine on Marcistar.
I realize that’s probably an weird thought but that’s a feeling i have.

Marci was noticeably nervous about branching out in the aftermath of the game I was linked to and you and Luke encouraged her to sign up here because of the familiar faces.

Press Doubt to X.

[Hopkirk]

what are your issues with my reasons to TR norway

In a full 50% of games, Norway is scum. You spend your first two posts posting a guide to playing well as scum and establishing specifically that you think Norwee has a weak scumgame. When pushed, you justify this based on meta provided from 5 people: 4 of whom would be incredibly unlikely to share that fmpov. I focused on FL, because he literally siteflaked in the aftermath of a game where he leaned heavily into the narrative that Norwee was the deepwolf. You know, the game Norwee was complaining about FL's (among others) toxicity.

Four pages later you come back with a comment about how you have reasons to townread Norwee, but "who cares about sorting the small hood". This, notably is the entirety of your ISO with the exception of a naked RVS vote on Luke.

why did your brain go from 'four of these people wouldn't say that'
to
'so it must be the fifth'
instead of
'so nobody said that and hopkirk is making it up'
in the second case there's the MUCH more valid question of why i subsequently use it as a reason to TR norway rather than the much weirder/irrelevant 'was it FL' angle you leanred into

[Hopkirk]

what were you waiting on a response from me on?

ah right, here i was asking which one of the questions you were waiting on (or both). because i want(ed) to know if the FL question was serious because it seemed like a stupid fluff question so it was weird you were waiting for a response to it as a serious point

[Bingle]

what are your issues with my reasons to TR norway

In a full 50% of games, Norway is scum. You spend your first two posts posting a guide to playing well as scum and establishing specifically that you think Norwee has a weak scumgame. When pushed, you justify this based on meta provided from 5 people: 4 of whom would be incredibly unlikely to share that fmpov. I focused on FL, because he literally siteflaked in the aftermath of a game where he leaned heavily into the narrative that Norwee was the deepwolf. You know, the game Norwee was complaining about FL's (among others) toxicity.

Four pages later you come back with a comment about how you have reasons to townread Norwee, but "who cares about sorting the small hood". This, notably is the entirety of your ISO with the exception of a naked RVS vote on Luke.

why did your brain go from 'four of these people wouldn't say that'
to
'so it must be the fifth'
instead of
'so nobody said that and hopkirk is making it up'
in the second case there's the MUCH more valid question of why i subsequently use it as a reason to TR norway rather than the much weirder/irrelevant 'was it FL' angle you leanred into

You're quoting a post where I talk about why FL wouldn't say that. I have no idea if Flopz would say that. I focused on FL to see if you would own up to it being bullshit when questioned given I think he's the one least likely to have brought it up, and you responded poorly.

The focus on FL instead of going straight to pushing you for making up reasons to TR Norway was to see if anyone would comment on the weird angle after bringing it up in the neighborhood and drawing attention to it both there and here.

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral
Vanderscamp
GuiltyLion
Hopkirk
Lukewarm
marcistar

I'm leaning town on Hopkirk
I want to lean town on Vanderscamp but I'm not there yet

VOTE: Lukewarm

[Lukewarm]

Dunnstral
Vanderscamp
GuiltyLion
Hopkirk
Lukewarm
marcistar

I'm leaning town on Hopkirk
I want to lean town on Vanderscamp but I'm not there yet

VOTE: Lukewarm

[Dunnstral]

For context, I think you look kind of bad inside of the neighborhood

[Lukewarm]

For context, I think you look kind of bad inside of the neighborhood

In what way?

[Dunnstral]

Your interactions with Marci feel awkward, you feel like you're buddying up in there, and your pseudo-gambit was awkward

[Lukewarm]

I openly admit that I was buddying up to Marci, both in the main thread and in the neighborhood thread. But... then I used her response to read her.

I just saw a game of how scum!marci responded to being buddied by a town, so I checked to see if she responded the same way. She didn't.

[SirCakez]

Votecount 1.3

Bingle (2) - Not_Mafia, Vanderscamp
Lukewarm (2) - Hopkirk, Dunnstral
Vanderscamp (1) - GuiltyLion
marcistar (1) - NorwegianboyEE
Hopkirk (1) - Bingle

Not voting (2) - marcistar, Lukewarm

(expired on 2021-05-24 08:40:00) remain until day end

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority.

[Lukewarm]

And to be honest with you, 100% of the only reason I signed up for this game was to play with Marci so she would be more comfortable leaving the newbie queue. We even talked about that before we signed up. Of course I am then going to be friendly with her once we get here.

Here is a link to the post-game conversation about it after our last game together, if you want to see how we were talking to one another immediately before the start of this game to compare.
1138

[marcistar]

And to be honest with you, 100% of the only reason I signed up for this game was to play with Marci so she would be more comfortable leaving the newbie queue. We even talked about that before we signed up. Of course I am then going to be friendly with her once we get here.

Here is a link to the post-game conversation about it after our last game together, if you want to see how we were talking to one another immediately before the start of this game to compare.
1138

I'm sorry bestie did i force u?

[Lukewarm]

No, you didn't force me. I like Mafia, and am happy to play. I just would not have normally signed up for this game, because it put me at 3 simultaneous games, and had planned to stick to 2. But I signed up anyways because I wanted to help you branch out and play a non-newbie game.

So far the pacing has not been bad at all trying to be involved in 3 games, so don't worry about it

[Lukewarm]

your pseudo-gambit was awkward

For the people in the 3p neighborhood. This is referring to 164 / 171

Spoiler:

I saw someone asking questions about GL not knowing about the Night Kill, remembered that in the neighborhood chat, he also did not know about Day Talk.

And was like "aha" here is info in the neighborhood that the townies in the other neighborhood would no know. So I tried to get everyone from the 3p neighborhood to give an opinion on the Night Kill situation, and then wanted to see if anyone's opinion changed after hearing about the Day Talk situation as well. But... all 3 of you had the same opinion, and no one changed, so there was nothing to compare amongst the 3p neighborhood. I declared my line of questioning pointless, and moved on.

Hopkirk brought it back up in the neighborhood, and questioned me about it, wanted to know what I was looking for. Declared that my line of questioning pointless from the start, regardless of how you 3 answered.

Maybe so, did not put a ton of thought into it, I mainly just wanted to try and take advantage of the neighborhoods in some way

[GuiltyLion]

yeah I'm not vibing with a Lukewarm scumread, nor the marci scumreads, if whoever's town in Hopkirk/Vanderscamp/Dunnstral could town it up a little bit that'd be great

I read through Bingle's push on Hopkirk but I'm going to reread it now with close attention and think about how much I agree with it

[GuiltyLion]

the crux of it seems to be that Hopkirk said Norway has an established reputation as being low WIM as scum and cited players that he thought had expressed that sentiment, Bingle doesn't think those players would have said that and asked Hopkirk about a specific one (FL), Hopkirk gave a jokey response instead of clarifying where he saw/heard FL talking about it.

I generally feel like "Norway has low WIM as scum" is likely to be something Hopkirk felt is true regardless of his alignment in this game (or nEE's for that matter), like I don't think he's going to just make up a complete lie about another player's scum meta, especially when naming specific players as references. however I do not see why he deflected a question about it instead of just saying where he might have seen FL comment on it, so I can sympathize with Bingle's suspicion there. If this is a premeditated push from scum!Bingle I think it would be hard for him to continue pushing it if Hopkirk had brought receipts, but at the same time I could envision scum pouncing on a townie's careless remarks about meta, so I don't know if it's strictly a town-indicative push especially since odds are not in Bingle's favor.

I do think this rules out a S-S relation and has decent odds of T-S in some direction given the difference in pools

I have some other thoughts that I typed up and deleted cause they amounted to further wishy-washiness than even the above. I'm a bit rusty at this game and feelin like I can't quite make reads yet with the confidence I used to have in my prime

[Lukewarm]

the crux of it seems to be that Hopkirk said Norway has an established reputation as being low WIM as scum and cited players that he thought had expressed that sentiment, Bingle doesn't think those players would have said that and asked Hopkirk about a specific one (FL), Hopkirk gave a jokey response instead of clarifying where he saw/heard FL talking about it.

I generally feel like "Norway has low WIM as scum" is likely to be something Hopkirk felt is true regardless of his alignment in this game (or nEE's for that matter), like I don't think he's going to just make up a complete lie about another player's scum meta, especially when naming specific players as references. however I do not see why he deflected a question about it instead of just saying where he might have seen FL comment on it, so I can sympathize with Bingle's suspicion there. If this is a premeditated push from scum!Bingle I think it would be hard for him to continue pushing it if Hopkirk had brought receipts, but at the same time I could envision scum pouncing on a townie's careless remarks about meta, so I don't know if it's strictly a town-indicative push especially since odds are not in Bingle's favor.

I do think this rules out a S-S relation and has decent odds of T-S in some direction given the difference in pools

I have some other thoughts that I typed up and deleted cause they amounted to further wishy-washiness than even the above. I'm a bit rusty at this game and feelin like I can't quite make reads yet with the confidence I used to have in my prime

I think you are missing the fact that Hop admitted to having lied about talking to any of those people about Norwee (310).

So what actually happened, was that Hop lied about it trying to get a reaction from Norwee -> When Bingle read it, he immediately knew it was a lie, and started questioning him to prove that it was a lie / to figure out why he lied.

[Hopkirk]

Why are you using the term 'lied' here?