In post 1650, notscience wrote:Presently we are killing Nacho.
Literally why (responding to Ydrasse)
In post 1652, Venus Fly Trap wrote:Are we basically just waiting for nacho's final thoughts at this point?
Pedit i mean .... why not
~ skitter
ExactlyIn post 1654, Kismet wrote:what DO you want?
you have an opportunity to seriously engage, get some thoughts in, game is at a crawl.
now is the time.
YOU HAVE EVERY OTHER SCUM MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMIn post 1757, notscience wrote:Nacho flipping green makes me want to cull the townblock.
But not Bork.
I'd be tilted out of playing the game if i were u prolly. Which is kinda what happened i see with delegating vote to mena and whoeverIn post 1759, notscience wrote:I knew peta was scum and should have just said kill him first.
I’m sorry.
Maybe somewhat relevant to note Mena is 1/5 on scum outside of NM, so had NM gotten pushed thru there was a lot of wiggle roomIn post 1802, Disaster Cartel wrote:I guess if Iverson towns up the salsa!slot a lot it might be like a toss up in (Iverson, mom, infinity) I guess but that's kind of irrelevant if all of (N_M, cakez, bulge) are scum
I wanna believeeIn post 2362, Kismet wrote:if there's one thing i think i am sheepable on this game it is that noddy is town, yes.
please tell me you did thisIn post 2405, Infinity 324 wrote:I'm ok waiting for people to catch up and then voting NM
you want to doIn post 2611, Disaster Cartel wrote:hi, guess who read some stuff
i want to vote bulge but i think mena would kill me if i moved our vote
- ydra
In post 2619, Disaster Cartel wrote:also i'd feel really fucking bad if nm got away when we've been on him all game but like, idk. i'm torn between whether or not scum actually bus nm or try to leave him alive long enough to try and get a quickhammer in
i struggled for a bit trying to reconcile if these wagons can exist as svs and i came to the conclusion that there's no reason that they can't + bulge attacking infinity feels like the only option for scum!bulge when they've committed to having Obvious Townies and few options for those voting them. also the fact that it's like... why not vote nm there so you can get through to another day, imo? like this is projecting but i don't get why bulge choose to vote infinity which is for all intents and purposes atp a vanity wagon
- ydra
disaster over infinity is back in businessIn post 2624, Disaster Cartel wrote:Spoiler:
here's the things that i didn't like from bulge regarding infinity -- it feels like.. the inverse of what actually happened LMAO, like the point that was being made was a gotcha that was supposed to screw over infinity. and then that didn't happen. the things about being intentionally obtuse/discredting are the things bulge did (she's flailing, etc) whether or not he meant to do that.
- ydra
In post 2632, Iverson wrote:Nothing to say, Ydrasse?
In post 2636, Iverson wrote:Maybe next time notsci!
In post 2637, Iverson wrote:Anyway I'm town and Ydrasse is scum so that's cool
i'm a huge fan of Prism's now, that was sickIn post 2639, Iverson wrote:Didn't even consider that I was scumclaiming or understand I was trolling for reactions, straight up she saw that vote and didn't think about it
Really curious how Disaster doesnt get killed on this day. Already got it spoiled that Venus pushes for Mom but ya x3In post 2684, Infinity 324 wrote:Mena's push to vote NM over bulge looks really good, but ydrasse's bulge vote does not, and I feel like she's had ample opportunity to obvtown
That's goldenIn post 2686, Iverson wrote:"I've got to go, Bork. It's all right. I'm not afraid. Some time, Bork, when the team is up against it, when things are wrong and the breaks are beating the boys, ask them to go in there with all they've got and win just one for the Nacho. I don't know where I'll be then, Bork. But I'll know about it, and I'll be happy."
The fact that Nacho, widely revered patron saint of townplay, came into this game with one mission, eliminating the trolling Not_Mafia who was scum anyway, only to promptly get dunked on and watch town go down 0-2 while the Miltank Man just smiles and laughs, absolutely kills me
In post 2803, skitter30 wrote:this has not been one of my better games reads-wise >.>
~
so this is where i'm at rn. in my mind the game is kinda divided into tiers:
{bork/mena-ydrasse}
{infinity/notsci}
{sircakez/mom/prism}
the only two people i'm still quasi-confident on are bork and mena. bork i still think is out of his scumrange and i just don't think mena interacts with nm that way, despite ydrasse's hammer. it's possible i'm getting snowed by the people in this group but i don't think i'm willing to vote there today. if i'm wrong on one of them rn i don't think this is something i can positively identify today with the information i have, and these aren't the people i want to spend today's vote on.
i would say *if* there's scum in that group there's max one. i can't like make the game make sense in my mind if both of them are, it just doesn't compute for me.
then the infinity/notsci tier. my heart kinda wants them both to be town but i have a really bad sinking feeling that this just isn't the universe we live in at this point. i townread them both early game but at this point those reasons no longer suffice. in particular i'm kinda getting suspicious of infinity and i feel like she's dropped off a lot in a way that's rather reminiscent of her scum MO. these are the reads i definitely want to re-evaluate but probably wouldn't vote today
and then the last tier i think is the best bet for hitting scum, and i think there's at least one, probably two, in there
i actually like sircakez out of all of them the best: i like his entrance today, he's p persistantly pushed for nm yesterday, and he also has anti-partner associatives with l/g
i still think mom is scummy, and am just not convinced by any of the reasons presented for townreading her
and i utterly hate everything prism has done since/including the hammer
i would want to vote in the last two today
~ skitter
Yeah, maybe.. with my current interpretation that was a 2/3 shot of losing in skitts' bottom threeIn post 2805, Iverson wrote:At this point I'd like to just concede if skitter is town.
In post 2908, Disaster Cartel wrote:This game is giving me strong vibes of scum not being able to TR our slot without losing bc I have no idea how we’re being considered in the PoE otherwise
Like my accuracy has been on point recently, this game I’ve basically had the best reads bar peta but there’s been like a concerted effort to keep me marginalised and I can basicslly only mark it down to scumteam pushing and then groupthink
these two are not town they can't beIn post 2909, Disaster Cartel wrote:G2H it’s (cakez, iverson, infinity) and there’s some weird bussing going on bc otherwise they figured the goose was cooked
Uhm doesn't Venus!scum just win the game here by pushing Iverson?In post 2975, fferyllt wrote:Iverson (2): SirCakez, Kismet
Disaster Cartel (1): Infinity 324
Not Voting (5): notscience, Venus Fly Trap, Momrangal, Iverson, Disaster Cartel
Agree, Disaster voting NM means nothing to meIn post 3022, Infinity 324 wrote:DC gets very little credit for voting NM since the slot voted bulge in the end.In post 3019, Kismet wrote:DC has been mostly pinpoint on L&G (scum), NM (scum), and Mara (who you also think is scum) and Mena has been pretty ok to me since early D1.
You were on Iverson but swapped off him for 2779 and I don't get what you saw there (and you even made 2782 later)
I didn't start TRing iverson when I unvoted him, I was only voting him to pressure him into explaining the hammer. Honestly, I don't understand his play here, but I think that's more town-indicative than anything, I just can't see an agenda to his play. Idk obviously one of my townreads is wrong, and I wouldn't even really be townreading the slot if not for salsa being towny as well.
In post 3041, Kismet wrote:there's one other option here that i hate to even consider and it's that my noddy read is wrong, because the switch off nm early D2 needs to be explained somehow
this is the shit that happens when you're down 2-0 i hope everyone's happy
In post 3043, Kismet wrote:would be fucking ballsy for noddy to have made that arrangement w/ mena to go after NM w/ that first wagon as it was and then to go after cakez. Like it has scum motivation to do if cakez is town (maybe even if he's scum) but man I feel scum noddy just fucking hardbusses there and licks his wounds.
goodIn post 3057, notscience wrote:You
VOTE: DC
I’m going to vote at the person half the game is scumreading and nobody is voting because that seems to be how scum has snuck out the last two days
yesIn post 3061, SirCakez wrote:This is a great point I think I'll biteIn post 3057, notscience wrote:You
VOTE: DC
I’m going to vote at the person half the game is scumreading and nobody is voting because that seems to be how scum has snuck out the last two days
VOTE: disaster cartel
works for meIn post 3102, Infinity 324 wrote:I'm just gonna assume cakez or DC are scum, me and cakez voted DC for about 12 hours right?
hey I read that scum game.In post 3207, Venus Fly Trap wrote:Spoiler:
basically this normal as the towngame, and the recently completed panic room that notsci modded as the scumgame.
in panic room he repped in late and basically tried pocketing me and tried to get me to like his slot and basically made his whole game about appeasing me (take a look at his iso if you don't believe me, https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ct[]=32813, it's basically entirely talking to me and about me and in some places even though the logical conclusions of what he was spouting would make me scum, he wouldn't even call me scum).
i called him out on it and flipped him (and infinity was there too!)
and in the towngame, he was not tryharding, he was popping in and yolo-ing whenever he felt convenient, even if it made him look bad. it was a tough pl and people kept trying to flip him because he was one of the easier misflips, and i kept being stubborn about explaining that that isn't how he's playing scum these days and managed to stave off the misflip. he would be trying to be more ~political~ (i.e. have reads that would actually make people townread him, and not just say whatever he's thinking), and would also be sucking up to me more (sorry mena for being so blunt).
and i was right in that analysis, and he was town there (and infinity you were in that one too iirc!)
and here he's a lot more like the latter than the former. he isn't having reads that would particularly get on anybody's good side (like, literally does not need to pick a massive fight about nm repeatedly on day1, setting himself up as contrary to general thread opinion). he isn't being super try-hard-y for him. he isn't trying to get me to townread him in particular. he isn't trying to pocket me - the way he's playing this game isn't orienting around me, which si what i would expect to happen if he were scum. in panic room, he basically kept trying to appeal to me, as my vote is ultimately what was going to decide how that day played out. i have a certain amount of sway here too, and he isn't trying to tap into that. he isn't particularly going out of his way to interact with me. i don't think this is what current-era-mena's scumgame looks like. it looks a lot more like the normal imo.
In post 3703, Morning Tweet wrote:Is Venus/Infinity a viable scumteam or am I way off the mark?
(on page 6 lol)
In post 3708, Morning Tweet wrote:me too sort of
you were second or third to defend NM and i am biased against everyone who said "No let's not policy NM"
additionally you seemed more passive like theres not a lot of SRing and more i guess normal questioning and less interesting stuff
Like from my two game baseline i think you had a push on me fairrrrlly early in royalty and i forget what happened in one night stand
as it is presently I was thinking less likely cakez/notsci scum and if i had to pick between you and disaster for one, well
starts off by slapping down a scumlean on infinity from like suuuuper early on when infinity was actually looking fine (I don't really think infinity starts to get scummy until considerably later in the game so MT being like "oh yeah infinity = bad at the opening" should stand out because I'd like to remind everyone that basically nobody had significant doubts about infinity in the early game. why? because infinity's posting in the early game *was good* and was strongly replicative of her towngame)In post 3716, Morning Tweet wrote:I've got two schools of thought where i think A.) scum has to do mental gymnastics to justify not voting outA NM or B.) they make somewhat of a show out of siding against NM to look betterSpoiler: Infinity and Mena discuss NM
As it was, Momrangal/Lion was not in the game. Not_Mafia was himself. Leafy shaded NM but didnt really weigh in on it directly.
Venus/Infinity openly defended whilst Mena was pretty heavily against NM.
i dont really recall notsci or cakes focusing on it too much
I find it reaaally hard to buy that no scum assisted NM at all and it was just one bus on him by Mena!scum (two busses after voting leafy). In a game where scum are gonna be dying each phase that's certainly valuable to scum though so im not really counting disaster out
Also I was kinda getting the sense Mena might just be frustrated with NM so it'd be NAI but dont know yet
lolIn post 453, Kismet wrote:like is that really your argument? "shit i got that 10 out of 11 townreads (or somewhere in that vein), but fuck, DANGER ZONE, better play defense"
I skimmed mod iso to the final VC and apparently NM wasn't even in contention by the end of the day like I thought he was so okay then moving on. The Nachomamma interactions are so long i dont really read into them super deeply but SIGH they're probably just as or more important
I'll prob let ydra deal with this when she does get here, but we were talking yesterday bc I wasn't in a great way tbh, and she mentioned that she thinks it's sus that the meta angle is being pushed against her specifically when she just finished a scumgame with infinity where she was like the polar opposite to this and also that she's had like a general low mood thing that she's starting to come out of re: games in general. also this game has just been a fucking slog overall, so I think trying to make that into this strongly AI thing for ydra is offIn post 3722, Morning Tweet wrote:In post 892, Nachomamma8 wrote:i don't like this from disaster cartel. i find it a frustrating experience as scum when i defend lynchbait (or don't push a townie who everyone is railing against) and they don't townread me back. this looks like this - i don't buy thst mena thinks we're gonna townread each other because we have similar readsIn post 528, Disaster Cartel wrote:My not thinking it makes sense that I should be townread in general =/= I don’t think nacho shouldn’t be townreading me more and find it kinda weird he isn’t given that I’ve been on a similar trajectory to him but also, importantly, have gotten there on some things before him (like voting leafy). Given that I can’t just be sheeping him bc of that, I find it weird that someone who’s coming to the game from a v similar viewpoint in many ways, he doesn’t see as town(cause like, yes)In post 894, Nachomamma8 wrote:i also have used my amazing detective skills to gleam that ydrasse is someone who is super town when they're town
and they are not that here
and also regarding the second, maybe Ydrasse isn't always super town as town but im on a big streak of Ydrasse!scum games where she plays identical to what i have read thus far
this is where the walkback begins and it's pretty much entirely based on WIFOM or on the assumption that infinity has a weak scumgame... which is EXACTLY the same argument that infinity has been trying to sell today and yesterday and throughout the game of just "oh I'm not good enough to have done this as scum I've just misplayed things". I don't think morning comes across as particularly interested in thinking about whether infinity is really out of range or not, and doesn't really have any actual reasons why infinity couldn't/wouldn't be able to do that as scum, it's just like a pure discourse thing "would infinity reaaaaaally do this" like yes? why wouldn't she? MT's not engaging with reasons of why she would or wouldn't and is just using this to try and justify coming round to an infinity townread which continuesIn post 3726, Morning Tweet wrote:Would infinity reeeeallllyy defend misty/beeboy reeeeeeeeeeallllllllllllyyyyyy thoughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh (944)
Plus that other stuff that was confbiasing me aka leafy hard tring infinity in 604
Shiiit im impressed if Infinity hard defends misty and pushes Nacho as scumIn post 963, Infinity 324 wrote:Nacho I'm not sure what to tell you, I'm not even just continuing to SR you for the same reasons from early on because you continue to post things that look scummy to me. It's just not worth it to go into that because you're not going to change my mind. I'm not exactly sure what scum!you is supposed to do if me/bork/notsci/VFT are all town, you tried to push VFT and it didn't take. And for everyone else, I don't know who you're bussing and not (though I have some ideas) and I'll figure it out when you flip scum. If you're town, I'm sorry and I'll re-evaluate my view of the game and heavily weight your reads because I know you're a good player and you'll be confirmed town to me then. I just don't see that happening atm.In post 969, Nachomamma8 wrote:You're not the first person to say this but it's not correct.In post 963, Infinity 324 wrote:you tried to push VFT and it didn't take.
If I was scum here I would be pushing townies to die. People can disagree with me and I'd still push for townies to die because playing scum is all about cracking trust and breaking down townblocks. Like in Order of the Stick when I got edged out pretty harshly by a solid townblock I kept pushing at people like Wisdom even though it wasn't popular because you need to push mislynches to win as scum. Here ESPECIALLY I would only need to kill one townie in order to safehouse myself so I can guarantee that I would get that one townie lynched.fucking hell i just dunno if i see itOkay i was gonna ask if Venus could be scum with Disaster then since strongarming mom wouldn't matter in that caseIn post 3718, Infinity 324 wrote:I'm pretty sure VFT is town because skitt singlehandedly strongarmed the elim on mom yesterday. Since DC was likely the other option, there is some world where she's still scum with DC, but that seems very very unlikely to me still.
Why do you find this world unlikely? Or what *is* more likely, i suppose
here. we've now had a complete reversal and MT has managed to line up with the exact same position as her pred in the important elements, which is that infinity!town and us!scum. this is scum's easiest path to a win, and I think that all of MT's posting reads as motivated by getting to that end state. what she's saying about notsci and VFT is fairly immaterial I think, but the cakez pocket attempt (the easiest next person to get onto me) is I think p blatantIn post 3732, Morning Tweet wrote:bottom line right now is cakes is town
infinity seems like town
Notsci and venus i dont know. both seem to have positive things going for them but from what i can tell Leafeon/Momrangal/NM were all pretty easily scum so i expect at least one scumteam member to have done well for themself
and Disaster seems like scum
eeh?
can someone who is not notsci tell me if this is believable or not? because I don't know what to thinkIn post 3702, notscience wrote:For the love of god there’s more than just Bork there’s two others with similar levels of experience
fucking notsci begged me to vote Nacho and I fell for itIn post 3725, Morning Tweet wrote:where did it all go so wrong guys?? I know you both end up on Nacho :C
GOOD QUESTIONIn post 3725, Morning Tweet wrote:How do we have 2-3 consensus scumreads who are scum (Leafeon + Momrangal + kind of NM but not really)
LMAO good times
we established scum probably could not qh because of Mom being so inactive and a probable lack of daychatIn post 3754, Morning Tweet wrote:If Cakes is town scum can just quickhammer entirely can they not..? Why don't they? Ah, it only lasted for four hours (and ofc only a few checked in thread during that time, especially not momrangal). So I suppose it's nothing
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHIn post 3753, Morning Tweet wrote:You know I can only imagine how painful this game must be for the townies still alive at this point, like peta and NM getting away is just owie
I don't think this is true thoughIn post 3760, Disaster Cartel wrote:because nobody was really saying that bulge/NM needed to be TvS and the general feeling was that they were probably s/s.
DC cakez and I think prism were all insisting on voting NM over bulge for reasons that didn't seem logical to me.In post 3752, Morning Tweet wrote:You're bothered by the pushback the bulge wagon got? What pushback
literally whoever is scum in this game is having an amazing game periodIn post 3771, Infinity 324 wrote:Yes if you're scum you're having the game of your life