Mini Normal 2211 || Summer Meet [Endgame]

[bugspray]

maybe scum has informed roles that know something about town roles and hoods/pts.

They don't. I just made a mistake.

??????????

yeah this is literally scum slip caught
VOTE: hem

[InsidiousLemons]

i agree that that post from hem is extremely sus. don't think i've made my stance on it clear yet but yeah, hem do you want to explain why the hell you're so confident that scum don't have informed roles? you've completely ignored multiple people pushing you for a scumslip lolol

[humaneatingmonkey]

so why does literally every tpr have to have access to a pt?

They don't. I just made a mistake.

it's an answer to another question

[InsidiousLemons]

so why does literally every tpr have to have access to a pt?

They don't. I just made a mistake.

it's an answer to another question

okay well this makes me feel a little better. still a bit of a strong statement to say for certain that not all PRs have access to a PT, but i think this is more likely a case of emphatic word choice than a slip. not totally sure though

[InsidiousLemons]

let's take a look at how ivy's case on osuka has evolved over the course of the game.

Osuka is mildly more leaning scum for being unhelpful.
[...]
VOTE: Osuka

first osuka is a scumlean for "being unhelpful" (?)

Bugspray Osuka and Geraintin are who'd I'd be willing to vote into today.

then as far as i can see, no mention of or interaction with osuka for 500+ posts, during which time she's mostly focused on gerain. then she reaffirms her support for an osuka lim

I've been flip flopping the twon in my head and in my vote, but I think I'm good to move here now
VOTE: Osuka

then 7 posts later, after hem makes it clear he won't support a gerain elim and votes osuka, she switches her vote

my process may be opaque (i couldn't possibly know because i'm not an outsider from my perspective), but inconsistent? i never said you were scum. to be clear:

i said that

if it's not tvt

, you're overwhelmingly likely to be the scum

instead of lemons

(bolded for emphasis, not in the original)

please point out where i slipped in perspective. my read on lemons has stayed relatively constant from the beginning of the game and yours is a bit vague if anything, but with this sort of push i can't imagine there isn't at least some degree of hidden motivation behind what you're doing.

The slip comes in that you're still assuming that atleast 1 is scum, which the post doesn't make clear. Even if you say you never siad they were scum, sure as hell felt like you were.

then osuka "slips", ivyeo comes in with the assist for hem's case with the incredibly strong argument that it "felt" like osuka assumed at least one of {lemons, monkey} was scum (he clearly didn't)

Just do Dunn with me

VOTE: Dunn
Okay.

@Ivy

- what's your thoughts on the Osuka claim and where do you think is a better option now?
Do you still think that Osuka slipped?

I still don't like the claim really, but I understand that town is not willing to exec there today. I still really don't see many of their posts from a towny perspective tbh, even the recent posts which just kinda feel like they're there and just to redirect attention. That being Said, Dunn is also in my scum pile for now so I'd also go there.

and now she doesn't even mention the slip when questioned. brownie points i guess for at least using the same fallacious reasoning as before rather than switching to a more logically sound argument, but this progression is all over the place.

[InsidiousLemons]

Sure it's subjective but so is everything in Mafia.

this is patently untrue. it is more than possible to make a facts-based case that does not rely on your personal interpretations and feelings about what a post may or may not mean, especially when, again, the post itself counters your agument.

His "Hypotheticals" seem to be taking a lot for granted, and they're a majority of his cases. It' like using those ifs as excuses to not have to push from his actual PoV.

i could say the same about your overuse of the words "seem" and "feel"

[bugspray]

so why does literally every tpr have to have access to a pt?

They don't. I just made a mistake.

it's an answer to another question

bugspray you can't even comprehend the number of style points you get for winning a mafia game off of a scumslip

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think it's obvious what's happening here.

I'll go to sleep. Don't lynch anyone while I'm asleep.

[InsidiousLemons]

so why does literally every tpr have to have access to a pt?

They don't. I just made a mistake.

it's an answer to another question

bugspray you can't even comprehend the number of style points you get for winning a mafia game off of a scumslip

once bitten twice shy. is there anything in particular that makes you disbelieve that hem was responding to 899 rather than 901? i understand that it is still sketch but i do think we porbably have better options than HEM today

[bugspray]

whether or not it was a scumslip isn't somethoing we can just empirically prove

[InsidiousLemons]

i'm aware of that fact. i'm saying my confidence that it

was

a scumslip is greatly diminished by the strength and simplicity of hem's explanation, and i don't think it's worth limming over when there are other options on the table. how do you feel about my analysis of ivy's case on osuka?

[bugspray]

i think ivy's case on osuka is super weak but i don't think the progression is particularly crickety. a lot happens in 200 posts and going on dunn who wasnt in the original holy trinity of me, osuka, gerain isn't that awful especially considering gerain would basically be a policy yeet, i've come around, and osuka claimed something we dont want to yeet

[InsidiousLemons]

re: 968 i'm kind of wary of how fine everyone is with a dunn lim. unanimity suggests that scum are okay with it too, and his flip gives us almost no information. with 16 hours to go, i will be waking up tomorrow right around the time of the deadline, and i suspect this is the case for many of us. we probably need to decide on a lim tonight, despite the monkey's resistance.

it's worth noting that in the convo quoted in 728, egix is unable to qualify the difference in "attitude" that he feels in ivy's play between one of her scum games and this one, for which he's "thinking she's maybe town here". he's quite eager to move away from the subject in that post, even attacking me to do so. the only reasons he cites for a townread apart from this are 311 and 420 which, while town-looking posts, don't really do it for me anymore given what we've seen since. this could suggest partner equity if one of them flips scum. i recognize that i'm getting a bit all over the place, but i'm feeling the deadline panic a bit and i want to consider every possible option before we make a decision.

VOTE: ivyeo

p-edit: i never criticized her for saying she'd go for dunn so it's interesting that you focus on that. my argument against her is mostly that the progression of her read on osuka feels unnatural. this is being super, super nitpicky, but it also stands out to me slightly that she seems to classify "town" as a group of which she is not a part in 970. i don't really want to read too much into word choice like this, but it caught my eye, so i might as well mention it.

bug am i right in thinking that your top 2 for today are humaneatingmonkey and dunnstral? i want to see how ivy responds to my post but i'm actually leaning in her direction for a lim atp

[Ivyeo]

His "Hypotheticals" seem to be taking a lot for granted, and they're a majority of his cases. It' like using those ifs as excuses to not have to push from his actual PoV.

i could say the same about your overuse of the words "seem" and "feel"[/quote]
What? I'm not using that kind of language to distance myself from the reads though, that's not the same thing

[Ivyeo]

To clarify, his hypotheticals come from an entirely differnt PoV than his own, and I'm just using words to show that things are leans rather than hard reads.

[Ivyeo]

and now she doesn't even mention the slip when questioned. brownie points i guess for at least using the same fallacious reasoning as before rather than switching to a more logically sound argument, but this progression is all over the place.

Just becuase Ididn't literally use the word "slip" doesn't mean I didn't mention the same perspective that I was refering to.

[osuka]

Dunn we all want to lynch you. I've counted. You'll be eliminated. I think it's better to claim now and leave some time for discussing your flip.

discussing your claim

PR hunting

[osuka]

so why does literally every tpr have to have access to a pt?

They don't. I just made a mistake.

it's an answer to another question

bugspray you can't even comprehend the number of style points you get for winning a mafia game off of a scumslip

once bitten twice shy. is there anything in particular that makes you disbelieve that hem was responding to 899 rather than 901? i understand that it is still sketch but i do think we porbably have better options than HEM today

the timing is all wrong. 898, 899, and 900 were all posted within a minute of each other. 903 only comes 10 minutes after that, and 9 minutes after 901 - he had to have had the time to look at the beginning of the next page. he didn't even quote the post? when you're directing something towards a post that is not the most recent, you generally quote what you're replying to or you pedit, neither of which he did

[osuka]

To clarify, his hypotheticals come from an entirely differnt PoV than his own, and I'm just using words to show that things are leans rather than hard reads.

dumbest post in the thread so far

speaking in hypotheticals is useful to elaborate on what i think the game state is, since i dont actually know what the fuck anyone is going to flip ahead of time. get your head out of your ass

[osuka]

i would say try harder but i think that's impossible

@lemons i still strongly prefer hem but i can settle for either dunn or ivy in no order of preference between the last two

[bugspray]

so why does literally every tpr have to have access to a pt?

They don't. I just made a mistake.

it's an answer to another question

bugspray you can't even comprehend the number of style points you get for winning a mafia game off of a scumslip

once bitten twice shy. is there anything in particular that makes you disbelieve that hem was responding to 899 rather than 901? i understand that it is still sketch but i do think we porbably have better options than HEM today

the timing is all wrong. 898, 899, and 900 were all posted within a minute of each other. 903 only comes 10 minutes after that, and 9 minutes after 901 - he had to have had the time to look at the beginning of the next page. he didn't even quote the post? when you're directing something towards a post that is not the most recent, you generally quote what you're replying to or you pedit, neither of which he did

why didnt you do this check earlier when you quoted the posts together

[bugspray]

They don't

[bugspray]

maybe scum has informed roles that know something about town roles and hoods/pts.

They don't. I just made a mistake.

??????????

[osuka]

so why does literally every tpr have to have access to a pt?

They don't. I just made a mistake.

it's an answer to another question

bugspray you can't even comprehend the number of style points you get for winning a mafia game off of a scumslip

once bitten twice shy. is there anything in particular that makes you disbelieve that hem was responding to 899 rather than 901? i understand that it is still sketch but i do think we porbably have better options than HEM today

the timing is all wrong. 898, 899, and 900 were all posted within a minute of each other. 903 only comes 10 minutes after that, and 9 minutes after 901 - he had to have had the time to look at the beginning of the next page. he didn't even quote the post? when you're directing something towards a post that is not the most recent, you generally quote what you're replying to or you pedit, neither of which he did

why didnt you do this check earlier when you quoted the posts together

i'm agreeing with you here i think

one of either of us is really confused, i'm not sure what's happening

[osuka]

to be clear, that looks like a slip and his explanation isn't excellent imo