Open 811 - Lovers and Losers (New Game+) [Game Over]

[yessiree]

VC 1.25

With 9 votes, it takes 5 to eliminate

Kerset (2)

- T-Bone, Bambi Jay

T-Bone (2)

- Bingle, RationalMadman

Anastasia (2)

- LlamaFluff, VFP

Bambi Jay (1)

- Kerset

Bingle (1)

- Something_Smart

Note Voting - Anastasia

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-05-25 22:00:00)

[VFP]

the last game before we re-rolled

this time he made a conscious effort to be more passive and only began being more active/controlly towards the end of day

So what's the indication that this is Llama scum? I don't understand.

[RationalMadman]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12686381

From #42 onwards, you display high observation capability as Town here, I have skimread your games actually after our Newbie game not just now.

I was curious how a Newbie knew to breadcrumb Tracker report the way you did. I don't understand why you claim I haven't read your games, what would I lie about that for? I have played with you and got a strong read on how you play as Town even from that game alone, you do not miss or fail to read anything as Town, I have strong reason to believe this.

[RationalMadman]

Isolation#42 onwards I mean.

[RationalMadman]

When were you culted in that game? I do not know for sure how to read you based on that.

[RationalMadman]

I never said I have direct meta that you don't read much as Scum, I said I don't know why you missed the win-con in massive bold text since you consistently read a lot as Town in the game we played and other games I've read from you as Town.

[RationalMadman]

Your reasoning here is you clinging at any reason to justify a vote on our pair, the very thing you accuse me of doing to your pair.

[RationalMadman]

I do not even slightly Townread how you are going for Ana and myself here, the reasoning makes absolutely no sense in how you linked Vanillas to their pairs either.

[VFP]

if we elim town lovers game state is:

4 town
3 Mafia

if 1 town player votes the wrong lover pair, the 3 mafia can quickvote speed elim.


if we elim town vt game state is:
4 town
4 mafia

you need 2 town players to vote wrong before mafia can quick vote.
margin of error is different.

1st of all, VT lim is 5 town, 3 scum, but I think you meant this.
I re read the below and I mis read originally.

If we miss in vt we still need 2 mis-votes to lose.

However, you're putting a bad argument into play.
On a lovers mis lim you get the below.

4 lovers voting
3 VT's with 2 town mindset. The argument is that the VT could be wrong. The only argument is town VT should never just vote willy nilly. Othewrwise it's the same with 2 town voting within the 6 lovers.
For example, if we lim VT (lets assume Llama for argumet sake).

Tomorrow we have to lim in the VT's which is then a 50% chance. Since the lovers would be a 33% chance.
Getting it wrong loses.

When we mis lim lovers we have the below.
50% chance to lim the right lovers, and 33% on the VT. There's no actualy difference.
It's purely down to if town are wrong or not. More town means more chance of town being wrong so it cancels each other out.

I've also pointed out why 2 mafia is better than 1, so if it comes to a 50% over a 33% chance then it should favour in the lovers.

[VFP]

Because Town care more about what's written in big bold text about the game especially when replacing in. Scum are more intrigued in what's in their PT simple to understand. Some players aren't observant and won't read all rules in detail (I skimread, myself) but you ignored a major thing written in massive bold text.

Wut?
That's wrong for a start. However, your argument is that town me doesn't do it because of meta. Why does my meta suggest that I do it as town and not scum?

[VFP]

Which account? You broke rules by entering the Newbie game as a Newbie and not as an SE then, didn't you?

No. newbiews have 24hours to take the slot otherwise a newbie can take the slot.
I joined after 24hours of no one taking the slot.

Be pretty careful when acusing someone of breaking rules.

[VFP]

In the game we played, you didn't have a single derp moment and had plenty of the opposite. That is how.

I already stated how the game state fell into place though.
But your argument was reading my games. Are you saying that none of my other games I have a derp moment?

[VFP]

You implied it. Why else would Vex not want to distance themselves from what you are saying as their scum-partner pair of lovers?

How/where did Vex and S_S distance from you and T-bone? If anything Vex trying to pocket me is a non-partner tell whereas Vex playing around T-bone and yourself and suddenly a gentle clash happening when T-bone scumreads Vex implies that I am not the partner, T-bone and you are. The only thing we agree on with Vex is that I doubt they were bussing Bingle and Kerset, that friction seemed/seems genuine except that it magically stopped afterwards.

Why can Vex not do this from their own play?
There was no suggestion of this what so ever.

I also never said they distanced from me or T-Bone. Quite the opposit, and put us on the back burner. I would normally suggest a re read, but I feel you are proving your point of making stuff up right now and clearly scum.

[VFP]

Every single post you made implied it, so much so you even knew how to organise your townread-to-scumread list in a way that made clear someone many scumread was top of your townreads so as to make clear if you died the next nightphase nobody was confused what alignment Ivy was (putting the other strong townread, Rathe, at the bottom of your townreads helped make it even more clear).

The day before, the way you replaced in and quickly had many townreads, scumreads and even meta-reads on Andante means you have a lot of attention and observation as Town.

Reveal who your main is and I can either realise I am wrong about your meta or prove it more correct. You keeping it secret is your issue, not mine. I have your past to go on and the game we played together implied you do not make mistakes at all as Town and pay huge attention to detail.

It was a poorly done way to show scum I was a tracker. That's not up for debate, it was obvious.
But again, why do I not have this observation as scum? If Andante does X, why as scum I suddenly forget this?
It's the same argument here. I know what I know, I do what I do. Why does town me seem to be smarter than scum me, when scum me has more to lose with fucking up?

[VFP]

I can't talk about your ongoing game(s) so which are you referring to? Which is your main account?

I have about 10 completed games on this account.
You said that you had checked my games and with the word "most" when talknig about on going games, means you read games of mine that had finished.
Which games did you read which were finished?

[VFP]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=85856

This game has no special rules, how can I prove you read special rules from it? You are consistently observant as Town in any game though:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12664967

in that game from your first post you show you read the entire game.

I high lighted the bold. In this game I forgot who I targeted as my night action and it confused everyone for the rest of the game.
So this proves you did not read the game, or my ISO at the very least. And it proves you did not read this game as I already said about the above game.

This game I also had knowledge of different rules in the mod PM when joining in. I was aware that roles were picked and changed every night.
Here, the win con is basic, and I would assume that the scum win con has aditional information in.

So this is where I have you dead to rights.
You are saying that as scum I do not understand the rules, but as town I would.
Not, that I'm pretending to not know the rules to look town, which I wanted to give you enough chance to push as. If you pushed this I may have doubted myself.

Wincons will always say how to win.
What do wincons not normally say? The lose conditions.

You win when all Mafia members are eliminated.

Town lovers wincon

You win when mafia outnumber, reach parity with town, or when 2 VTs are eliminated.

Scum lovers win con

Either I'm just a really dumb player who ddin't read my PM on replace in, regardless of my align, or I'm aiming for town credit here.
Your argument is fake.

[VFP]

I never said I have direct meta that you don't read much as Scum, I said I don't know why you missed the win-con in massive bold text since you consistently read a lot as Town in the game we played and other games I've read from you as Town.

No, you said I don't miss it as town.
You based me as scum for this reason.

[LlamaFluff]

@Ana - You feel that you can accurately meta me from a game that lasted about 48 hours, barely hit 10 pages, had zero flips, etc? Especially if you arent aware of town meta?

[Kerset]

@llama Why did you have no problem with Tbone doing the same on me?

[RationalMadman]

Because Town care more about what's written in big bold text about the game especially when replacing in. Scum are more intrigued in what's in their PT simple to understand. Some players aren't observant and won't read all rules in detail (I skimread, myself) but you ignored a major thing written in massive bold text.

Wut?
That's wrong for a start. However, your argument is that town me doesn't do it because of meta. Why does my meta suggest that I do it as town and not scum?

I have no clue at all what you're saying. I never said Town you doesn't read the text. I asked you why you didn't read it, your answer would help me read you. You answer is to vote my lover.

[RationalMadman]

Scum lovers win con

One line away from it says what?

[RationalMadman]

So this is where I have you dead to rights.
You are saying that as scum I do not understand the rules, but as town I would.

Nope. I already scumread Tbone and nullread Klick, siding towards scum.

You come in and didn't read the bog bold text which would catch the eye of anybody reading the first page, especially as Town.

I asked why you did not do it and you became extremely hostile and defensive and now vote Anastasia.

[RationalMadman]

I asked why you didn't read ot to see your response, not to accuse you of being scum purely due to that. Your reaction is terrible.

[VFP]

I have no clue at all what you're saying. I never said Town you doesn't read the text. I asked you why you didn't read it, your answer would help me read you. You answer is to vote my lover.

You can clearly see that I meant that I do read as town in your opinion.

You'd read it as Town I am sure.

You wasn't asking why I didn't read it, you are saying that as town I do read it and as scum I don't read it.

[VFP]

One line away from it says what?

What?