Mini Normal 2213 - Village (End Game)

[Save The Dragons]

i think the post that originally triggered me as scummy actually comes from town when i think about it more so i'm kind of null, townlean at the moment

[Noraa]

i don't feel like there's enough content to make an informed read on slots like Max and Dunn and Rlotus

why isn't Andres on this list?

But also, Dunn has given basically enough content to have a weak read at least. The other two are kinda ... eh.

[Noraa]

Also UC voyager isn't much better.

[JohnnyFarrar]

UC came in intending to joke so hard he only read one post.

[Noraa]

I can't remember who said this. But someone said VFP was town bc his first post was the same in another town game. Basing reads off of one post is kind of
If its one sexy wall of town spew, that's another situation but like .... one sentence ...

I can see VFP as town here. The amount he's contributed is kind of small tho. I remember last time I saw him, he had a lot of reads. I can't remember if the reads were right or wrong but I do remember he had a lot of them *and* he justified most of them/was willing to justify them if you asked

[Noraa]

T.T can someone just like have a full set of reads + reasoning so I can sheep. I have no idea what im doing.

[Save The Dragons]

i was giving examples, not making an exhaustive list

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Just did a reread and I have something to discuss here. I have something for Johnny as well but I'm going to separate the posts for context.

I didn't say I had any type of read on VFP

But my thing is why did you single out the VFP voters? Why not the Johnny voters or the Noraa voters. I’m trying to understand your angle here and it’s not making me feel good.

As I reread this post it stuck out to me because I feel like it should be apparent to Ita why the VFP wagon was of interest to me, specifically because of the comments he later makes regarding VCA. I remember thinking when he first posted about VCA that I also play that way in later Days and because of that playstyle I've grown more attentive of early voting patterns and wagons in general. I feel like Ita, as a player who touts VCA, should not have been surprised that I "singled out" the VFP wagon.

Quotes where he mentions VCA:

Spoiler:

And yeah you are the townsiest townie that ever was in a town Noraa!

Remember a while back I said I could read you. I still think I can. It doesn’t really show up in your play. I think if you’re scum it’ll show up in your voting patterns. And I do vca so...

Wtf, who votes a day 13 IC?
All we have to do is no lim every day, hope something assists in stopping kills and I'm actually confirmed as town or scum by that point.

I don't think VCA is reliable for me. Sometimes I vote like twice in a whole large theme and sometimes I vote every two minutes. Theres ... no consistency.
But Ita, I do think you're town so I'll try to save you. Lemme first figure out why your wagons piling up lol.

VCA is reliable for everybody, lol.

I don’t ever really know why I’m scumread but I always am. I just assume it’s because I say or do things that’s easy for scum to latch onto. But if we do decide to wagon ssbm I’ll vote there. I still don’t like the fact of the singling out of the VFP wagon, even though he explained it.

I think the main thing I wanna address here is the part about directly talking to Noraa
what I see as the core cause of that is that Noraa simply has the most posts so far, by a sizable margin. So it's easiest to interact with her.

Do not like this post.

VOTE: Gamma

Can you articulate why? I can see a potential logic to this comment, I wonder if I'm right about it.

I feel like you approached it defensively, when Noraa was not scum reading you for it, and I when I read through, I did not think twice about it. But for you it was "the main thing you wanna address here"

Felt like you were primed to defend yourself

So reading this, I disagree with Luke's conclusion, though I do see potential for a townie thought process behind the post...

But my thing is why did you single out the VFP voters? Why not the Johnny voters or the Noraa voters. I’m trying to understand your angle here and it’s not making me feel good.

Correction, there were four wagons with 2 votes: Gamma, STD, Max, and VFP. I’m curious why VFP’s stood out to you over the others.

VFP's actually had movement of people coming on and off, so it stood out to me. I think at the time there had been 3 people, maybe 4 that had voted VFP at some point. 2 RVS votes on the same person does not a wagon make. When votes start going on and off like that though, it piques my interest

yeah I thought like this too, it's why I voted VFP

As a person who moved on then off of the VFP RVS vote, I just thought it would be funnier to play into his joke.

Spoiler:

Should I claim?

Should I claim?

Maybe not quite yet, but things do appear to be moving in that direction

I'm a day 13 IC - unlucky for some.

I'm a day 13 IC - unlucky for some.

Oh shit.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: MaxTheFox

This message in particular made me chuckle as I typed it

I'm a day 13 IC - unlucky for some.

Oh shit.
UNVOTE:

... but then I read this. It strikes me as either a direct defense of Italiano, or possibly an indirect defense of VFP. I think it's too early, and Luke's reads are too weak to justify this type of play if he is town.

I am feeling a little better about Kyouko's play rn, recent postings by him show a decent level of thought

I still think they're scum

Noraa should we start a wagon on them then?

Here we have Luke looking to start a wagon on me, but not actually voting me. He appeals to Noraa for permission to start the wagon. While I do townlean on Noraa, I'm abysmal at reading players like her (Creature comes to mind), so I don't trust myself to read her accurately. All that being said, I do think Noraa is the most universally TRed player in this game so far and if !scum Luke or !scum Italiano could convince her to start the wagon, I do think they might avoid suspicion after my flip.

Italiano has

also

appealed to Noraa to wagon me in a reply that is seemingly directed at Noraa, but does not explicitly appeal to her. See below:

Wtf, who votes a day 13 IC?
All we have to do is no lim every day, hope something assists in stopping kills and I'm actually confirmed as town or scum by that point.

I don't think VCA is reliable for me. Sometimes I vote like twice in a whole large theme and sometimes I vote every two minutes. Theres ... no consistency.
But Ita, I do think you're town so I'll try to save you. Lemme first figure out why your wagons piling up lol.

VCA is reliable for everybody, lol.

I don’t ever really know why I’m scumread but I always am. I just assume it’s because I say or do things that’s easy for scum to latch onto. But if we do decide to wagon ssbm I’ll vote there. I still don’t like the fact of the singling out of the VFP wagon, even though he explained it.

Tbh I find it hard to believe they're both scum brazenly defending like this (feels too easy), but there is some shit going on here.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

A good portion of this quote is snipped because I wanted to address these two quote-replies in particular:

But it's got the snap and the crackle

But no pop

I can't fathom why you would restate the joke? Did you just not read the context of my post?

VOTE: UC

I think that the one with the underscore is scum. ss__ that one
um because their posts on page 73 has a weird interaction w/ UC. Post 73 feels super extra.

I find myself nodding with this post

Johnny, if you go back to 73, you'll see that I'm essentially making the same comment toward UCV that you made in the top part of your snipped quote: "Someone already said that.

Now say something useful

." I'm wondering what makes you feel agreement with Noraa here?

[ItalianoVD]

So I read up on that Brutality game and Andres and RLotus were both town and Dunnstral was scum. Andres started off the same in that game as in this game, so it’s at least nai. Lotus tunneled me like a madman which is why I knew you had to be scum. I don’t see scum tunneling town the way you did in that game so I can assume it’s within your town range to do so. Dunnstral was non existent on Day 1 that game and sort of picked it up on Day 2. Scum!Dunnstral could be a thing, but I assume he towntells as town, otherwise I can’t read him him off of the games I’ve played with him because he’s been scum.

[ItalianoVD]

UNVOTE: VFP

Was RVS, but not really seeing anything worth voting for now.

[Noraa]

post 232 really reminds me of a post that scum me would post. but most people aren't like me so im inclined to TR it.

[JohnnyFarrar]

But it's got the snap and the crackle

But no pop

Nora just said that.

Is what I said.

What do you think of Italiano, and the Johnny-Luke interaction?

Is the extra part. To me at least

Italy looking better

[Noraa]

my suggestion is to either yeet Andres or Dunn.
It seems stupid to be going and yeeting Ita, VFP, or Mon who are all known to be LHF.

Dunn wagon has a decent amount of resistance. Tbh im really uncertain on Dunn but I do think that if he doesn't start towning up, he maybe should die today because if he is scum and gets replaced, its very damn possible that I'll just let him go and the replacement will slip by for a long time and that's horrible. And Andres dipped off saying he was drunk and still hasn't come back. I have a specific reason why I think Andres is scum which, if he is scum and comes back to the thread, I think I can verify. If he doesn't come back, then he needs to be replaced. However, I do also hope he doesn't rep out cuz my tell won't necessarily work on someone else. I think that if both Dunn and Andres get replaced, we should yeet Andres because im more confident in that being scum(kinda) I dunno im just still very weirded out that I dont have a solid read on Dunn at this point. Normally, like 3 posts in, I should already know exactly what alignment he is!!!!

[ItalianoVD]

As I reread this post it stuck out to me because I feel like it should be apparent to Ita why the VFP wagon was of interest to me, specifically because of the comments he later makes regarding VCA. I remember thinking when he first posted about VCA that I also play that way in later Days and because of that playstyle

I've grown more attentive of early voting patterns and wagons in general.

I feel like Ita, as a player who touts VCA, should not have been surprised that I "singled out" the VFP wagon.

RVS wagons make sense once there are flips. I do look at early wagons and voting patterns, but there is always context. There were four wagons at 2 votes and no one wagon ever reached 3 votes. Both you and Gamma have wrong information.

VCA is pointless unless/until you have flips. I never use VCA before a flip so why are you saying that like that’s how this works.

I’m suspicious of how you are framing this VFP wagon and then when I point out that it wasn’t the way you are framing it, you double down?

Then I ask what you thought about VFP to be going after his voters and in 105 you stated you you didn’t have any type of read on him. And I understand you don’t need to have a read on a slot to go after the voters, but in this context it’s fishy. You’d have more to stand on if the wagon got to L2 or L1.

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler:

But my thing is why did you single out the VFP voters? Why not the Johnny voters or the Noraa voters. I’m trying to understand your angle here and it’s not making me feel good.

Correction, there were four wagons with 2 votes: Gamma, STD, Max, and VFP. I’m curious why VFP’s stood out to you over the others.

VFP's actually had movement of people coming on and off, so it stood out to me. I think at the time there had been 3 people, maybe 4 that had voted VFP at some point. 2 RVS votes on the same person does not a wagon make. When votes start going on and off like that though, it piques my interest

yeah I thought like this too, it's why I voted VFP

As a person who moved on then off of the VFP RVS vote, I just thought it would be funnier to play into his joke.

[spooler=]

Should I claim?

Should I claim?

Maybe not quite yet, but things do appear to be moving in that direction

I'm a day 13 IC - unlucky for some.

I'm a day 13 IC - unlucky for some.

Oh shit.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: MaxTheFox

[/spooler]

This message in particular made me chuckle as I typed it

I'm a day 13 IC - unlucky for some.

Oh shit.
UNVOTE:

... but then I read this. It strikes me as either a direct defense of Italiano, or possibly an indirect defense of VFP. I think it's too early, and Luke's reads are too weak to justify this type of play if he is town.

Not sure where you got that it was a defense of either Italiano or VFP?

You said that something

I had done

had piqued your interest
"VFP's actually had movement of people coming on and off, so it stood out to me... When votes start going on and off like that though, it piques my interest"

It me. I did that.

So I dropped my own reason for doing it.

[ItalianoVD]

my suggestion is to either yeet Andres or Dunn.

I don’t agree with Andres right now. I guess giving him some time is alright because I’ve seen him do better as the game progresses.

[JohnnyFarrar]

I have a lot of respect for Andres game as well

[ssbm_Kyouko]

As I reread this post it stuck out to me because I feel like it should be apparent to Ita why the VFP wagon was of interest to me, specifically because of the comments he later makes regarding VCA. I remember thinking when he first posted about VCA that I also play that way in later Days and because of that playstyle

I've grown more attentive of early voting patterns and wagons in general.

I feel like Ita, as a player who touts VCA, should not have been surprised that I "singled out" the VFP wagon.

RVS wagons make sense once there are flips. I do look at early wagons and voting patterns, but there is always context. There were four wagons at 2 votes and no one wagon ever reached 3 votes. Both you and Gamma have wrong information.

VCA is pointless unless/until you have flips. I never use VCA before a flip so why are you saying that like that’s how this works.

I’m suspicious of how you are framing this VFP wagon and then when I point out that it wasn’t the way you are framing it, you double down?

Then I ask what you thought about VFP to be going after his voters and in 105 you stated you you didn’t have any type of read on him. And I understand you don’t need to have a read on a slot to go after the voters, but in this context it’s fishy. You’d have more to stand on if the wagon got to L2 or L1.

Luke voted and then unvoted VFP before the other 2 votes on VFP, so at that point, there

had been

three players that had voted for VFP, even though not all of those players were still voting them. That is what I, and I think Gamma, have been saying.

I'm not saying you should be doing VCA pre-flip. I'm saying that I, as a player who likes to use VCA, have resultantly become more attentive to RVS voting. I believe that you, also as a player who uses VCA, should have developed a similar sense.

What do you mean by framing the VFP wagon, and in what way am I framing it? I also don't think you asked me

what

I thought of VFP. You asked me

if

I had a solid read on him. I think the reaction you're having to a couple of votes is giving me the ground to stand on.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Spoiler:

But my thing is why did you single out the VFP voters? Why not the Johnny voters or the Noraa voters. I’m trying to understand your angle here and it’s not making me feel good.

Correction, there were four wagons with 2 votes: Gamma, STD, Max, and VFP. I’m curious why VFP’s stood out to you over the others.

VFP's actually had movement of people coming on and off, so it stood out to me. I think at the time there had been 3 people, maybe 4 that had voted VFP at some point. 2 RVS votes on the same person does not a wagon make. When votes start going on and off like that though, it piques my interest

yeah I thought like this too, it's why I voted VFP

As a person who moved on then off of the VFP RVS vote, I just thought it would be funnier to play into his joke.

[spooler=]

Should I claim?

Should I claim?

Maybe not quite yet, but things do appear to be moving in that direction

I'm a day 13 IC - unlucky for some.

I'm a day 13 IC - unlucky for some.

Oh shit.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: MaxTheFox

[/spooler]

This message in particular made me chuckle as I typed it

I'm a day 13 IC - unlucky for some.

Oh shit.
UNVOTE:

... but then I read this. It strikes me as either a direct defense of Italiano, or possibly an indirect defense of VFP. I think it's too early, and Luke's reads are too weak to justify this type of play if he is town.

Not sure where you got that it was a defense of either Italiano or VFP?

You said that something

I had done

had piqued your interest
"VFP's actually had movement of people coming on and off, so it stood out to me... When votes start going on and off like that though, it piques my interest"

It me. I did that.

So I dropped my own reason for doing it.

I know you're the one that did it, and I and I believe the rest of the thread understood why you did it. What I did not understand was the town motivation for a post explaining it off as a joke. It happened early on during RVS, and offering an unprompted explanation indicates that you felt a need to defend the action. This is what makes me think it is a "defense." It seems more likely to be for Italiano because you are defending the action that brought my attention to the reason I originally voted for Italiano. I saw the possibility it could be in defense of VFP because it could make his wagon seem like less of a big deal when you explain that a former vote for him was a joke.

[UC Voyager]

I gotta catch up. It's been a rough few days I promise to start generating content soon

[JohnnyFarrar]

Hope everything's ok

[Lukewarm]

I know you're the one that did it, and I and I believe the rest of the thread understood why you did it. What I did not understand was the town motivation for a post explaining it off as a joke. It happened early on during RVS, and offering an unprompted explanation indicates that you felt a need to defend the action. This is what makes me think it is a "defense." It seems more likely to be for Italiano because you are defending the action that brought my attention to the reason I originally voted for Italiano. I saw the possibility it could be in defense of VFP because it could make his wagon seem like less of a big deal when you explain that a former vote for him was a joke.

Unprompted? What are you talking about?

I saw like 4+ people talking about the movements on and off of VFP (which I was a part of), so I chimed in to the conversation.

[Lukewarm]

Literally every stance Kyouko has made feels off to me. Like they are hunting for excuses to scum read people (which scum do), instead of actually reading people (which townies do)

VOTE: Kyouko

[Lukewarm]

I know you're the one that did it, and I and I believe the rest of the thread understood why you did it. What I did not understand was the town motivation for a post explaining it off as a joke.

It is also hard to take this post as genuine, when Kyouko is a person who literally questioned me directly over it

I'm a day 13 IC - unlucky for some.

Oh shit.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: MaxTheFox

Why you voting Max my guy? Why the switch so soon?

JohnnyFarrar - horrible track record of reading. always seems scummy to everyone.

Ftfy

Can confirm.
Got scum read last game because I was the only one not pushing a SR on Johnny

(we were both town)

Speaking of which, don't worry Johnny, I am starting with a hard SR on you this time. I learned my lesson

So where's the vote?

So which is it? Was it so obviously a joke vote, that it is scummy for me to explain it? Or was it something that you thought you should question me over?

Kind of hard to believe both imo