Newbie 2064 - (GG)

Cabd · Post Post #250 (ISO) » Mon May 24, 2021 12:19 pm

Votecount 1-6

With 9 players alive, it will take 5 votes to eliminate.

JamesTheNames (3): JacksonVirgo, humaneatingmonkey, navigatorv
Orctin (2): Micc, Dum
Micc (1): Orctin,
JacksonVirgo (1): JamesTheNames
navigatorv (1): NinjaStore
humaneatingmonkey (1): Fizz Raab

Not Voting (0):

The deadline for day one is set at (expired on 2021-05-29 20:18:34)

Fizz Raab · Post Post #251 (ISO) » Mon May 24, 2021 12:23 pm

In post 177, JamesTheNames wrote:
My opinions on Fizz Raab

Spoiler:
In post 89, Fizz Raab wrote:
In post 86, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
In post 84, Fizz Raab wrote:I'm sorry, how does overexplaining stuff this class as a scum move? I think voting for me over this is absolotely ridiclilous. What's wrong with overexplaining something? Please tell me.
so you agree, you're overexplaining?
So what if I am. It still doesn't classify as a scum move and a ridiclious reason to vote me.
I am not completely aware with the normal tone of this forum, this feels rather passive aggressive to me. I think the term is flaking? Acting suspiciously under any pressure.

In post 150, Fizz Raab wrote:
In post 91, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
In post 89, Fizz Raab wrote:So what if I am. It still doesn't classify as a scum move and a ridiclious reason to vote me.
What classifies as a scum move in your opinion?
For one people voting without a reason for it. People who just do short posts without a reasoning for it. I think this is one dumb vote on your part. Why is the guy your defending classifies as town?
Humaneatingmonkey, run. Your posts range from 20 words to 64 words, I am curious how short short must be, this is seeing an 8 calling it an 8, then seeing an upside down 8 and calling it a 6. I wouldn't mind more clarification as to what you think is or isn't Alignment indicative, my personal opinion is post length isn't indicative but can be a nod in a direction with enough context. Very curious to see how JacksonVirgo responds to post 150, I don't expect them to be satisfied with the answer.

My opinions on orctin

Spoiler:
In post 64, orctin wrote:This is total setup for me to hammer Micc - he's at E-1 i believe. At the moment he is high on my scum list but ending day early is generally a bad play. I'd rather allow him a chance to post before a hammer vote goes down

Aside from Micc i dont have much of a town/scum read otherwise really, it's just to early for me to draw those kind of conclusions. but some basic thoughts to help start people down that road.

Fizz Raab - playing the newbie card early
Salsabil Faria - seems knowledgeable on the game - countered to Micc's early push
Dum - new to forum game - able to speculate new opinion and pushed on missing player,
NinjaStore - Strong enough player to stand up for opinion
navigatorv - brought up a no-elim possibility which seems to be counter to most people here, strong enough to push back with some sound reasoning against micc
JacksonVirgo - Joke vote to myself just because we knew each other most likely - started out slow last time i seen him and seems to be doign the same - no read at this point
Micc - Seems quick to throw out heat to someone hoping to build quick attention on someone, pushed for someone to play a certain way but failed to back up his own simple reasoning
humaneatingmonkey-dsjstr - just replaced into game - simple post and vote - not much to read yet but was quick to throw a vote out there.
Why so many null reads? I apologise if I misunderstood your reasoning for voting Micc, but it is due to voting with not much justification and/or voting for the sake of voting. 12 (I think this is how this works?) should alter your read for Navigator, 50 should alter your read for Dum, 13 and 26 are you doing the same as what you are claiming Micc did, I won't stop you explaining why they are different, seems like feigning activity / lurking / voting for the sake of voting but, each to their own, and to their own each.

My opinions on Dum

Spoiler:
103
I do understand the idea behind this, see who "hammers", voila we found scum. I don't like that I'm interpreting this as town lean. I really don't. From my perspective it doesn't make sense for Scum to do this. It ruins your late game claims I would assume, "if they were scum why didn't they go to hammer?".

Anyway that's been adressed a bunch already, the other issue with the post:
1-navigatorv. As of right now, everything they have done looks extremely townie to me, especially with the reads they have been posting (Wich i mostly agree with).
So you disagree regarding Jackson, Salsabil (myself), these slots aren't scum in your eyes, they are neutral. As of post 103 navigatorv viewed orctin as town, you didn't, post 80 implied (loosely) a town lean on Dum, both of these you view as neutral. I can't help but to see this as not helpful, if you don't have reads on somebody, say you don't have reads on somebody, or just make something up for content. Regardless the main issue at hand:

The Micc vote justification? You are suspicious of him because he is overexplaining things, you look at past games he has had a stake in, and your conclusion as to what is most likely, is that he is trying to help people "understand the game and have fun". I don't understand. I am confused.

My opinions on JacksonVirgo

Spoiler:
I don't understand why their vote didn't move to navigatorv pre post 130. On the note of post 130:
Also I disagree with Orc, they will not defend themselves properly and we won't get any pressure reads until they get pushed on. Again not voting but throwing intent is meaningless.

Why didn't you move your vote onto Dum? You considered him to be "scummy" along with the player I replaced, they do something, overall seen as scummy, yet you sit back and don't vote? Instead the vote hovers around a player who wasn't around. As of this very moment I think you are the scum duo.

My opinions on humaneatingmonkey

Spoiler:
I mean, he is clear about what he likes and doesn't like, posts for fun, I have no issues with this, he may not enjoy walls, but a "why" wouldn't hurt to have. Meh.

My opinions on Micc

Spoiler:
Explains himself, nice. I would have preferred no 112, would've made the Dum gambit more useful for everyone, but being open has its benefits also. I also appreciate his comments on how people are playing, he said he'll catch up, I'm hoping when he does, he'll comment on the Dum comment, and the little quarrel between Navigatorv and JacksonVirgo. Basically he feels like what orctin was attempting earlier ^, but done with a much more town oriented aura.

My opinions on NinjaTools

Spoiler:
Please post more. Why didn't you put Dum on E-2 in 165? Why didn't you vote for Micc after your 44?

My opinions on Navigatorv

Spoiler:
It appears he is actually bothered by certain people's post quality and relavance, annoyance at lack of content being created, I'm not very experienced but this just feels towny to me

Individually, Fizz Raab, or orctin are the scummiest, but of course, there are 2 scum out there. JacksonVirgo and Dum as a scum duo makes sense to me, even though individually they aren't the most scummy, but when I consider them in conjunction, it makes sense to me.
This can easily change based on the response to this post, I don't want to be stubborn and cause issues.

UNVOTE: Micc
VOTE: Dum
This puts Dum at E-2.

By the way, if anybody really wants content just say so.

And you are wrong if you think I'm scum when I've been way more helpful than HumanEatingMonkey has. Tell me what is alright with HumanEatingMonkey doing short posts without any information or real contribution to the game? Please explain your thoughts because I rather give out full details with my overexplaining things than having one post liners which is ridiclious to think that's fun when really, it does absolutely nothing to help with this game. Are you scum I wonder as well if your sticking up for someone being clear on likes and dislike posts and one liners. How is that not suspious to you?

JamesTheNames · Post Post #252 (ISO) » Mon May 24, 2021 1:50 pm

In post 251, Fizz Raab wrote: And you are wrong if you think I'm scum when I've been way more helpful than HumanEatingMonkey has. Tell me what is alright with HumanEatingMonkey doing short posts without any information or real contribution to the game? Please explain your thoughts because I rather give out full details with my overexplaining things than having one post liners which is ridiclious to think that's fun when really, it does absolutely nothing to help with this game. Are you scum I wonder as well if your sticking up for someone being clear on likes and dislike posts and one liners. How is that not suspious to you?

I don't mind if someone posts 10 walls in a row, or 100 one liners in a row. You said you think short posts are scummy. I don't think it alone can be indicative of anything. Could HumanEatingMonkey contribute more? I guess? Is it scum indicative? No.

Cabd · Post Post #253 (ISO) » Mon May 24, 2021 2:38 pm

The VC posted a few posts above includes the 24 hour extension, please refer to it, or vote counts after it, for the correct deadline timer.

orctin · Post Post #254 (ISO) » Mon May 24, 2021 6:48 pm

Sorry for being quiet last couple days - got tied up with things - be getting caught up tomorrow in the thread and see where things are and new read

humaneatingmonkey · Post Post #255 (ISO) » Mon May 24, 2021 11:00 pm

Hey, sorry, now I know I promised a catch-up but today was not a good day for me.

Cabd · Post Post #256 (ISO) » Tue May 25, 2021 4:40 pm

Votecount 1-7

With 9 players alive, it will take 5 votes to eliminate.

JamesTheNames (3): JacksonVirgo, humaneatingmonkey, navigatorv
Orctin (2): Micc, Dum
Micc (1): Orctin,
JacksonVirgo (1): JamesTheNames
navigatorv (1): NinjaStore
humaneatingmonkey (1): Fizz Raab

Not Voting (0):

The deadline for day one is set at (expired on 2021-05-29 20:18:34)

I will be sending out prods in the morning.

JacksonVirgo · Post Post #257 (ISO) » Tue May 25, 2021 5:43 pm

Prodging, am busy

navigatorv · Post Post #258 (ISO) » Tue May 25, 2021 7:03 pm

Sounds like everybody's been having a hell of a last few days, myself included.
I think I've got my emotions more under control though, so apologies for the emotional instability I showed to a few of you.

Since no one's really posted anything, I guess now's probably a decent time for me to post my reads from everyone. I'm re-reading everyone's posts as I write this, so this is probably gonna be long since I'll comment on everything that jumps out at me.

Now, from the top based on the order we were initially listed in:

orctin

Spoiler:

To start, he had the opportunity to hammer Micc and chose not to. There are a few reasons he might choose to do this, both town and scum:
-First is his stated reasoning, he wanted to give Micc a chance to defend himself and also didn't want day one to end early, obviously a townplay.
-Second, he and Micc could be scum and he was trying to keep his buddy alive in a way that didn't look suspicious. Now that Micc isn't in everyone's headlights, he feels safer bussing him.
-Third, he didn't want to look suspicious by hammering without anything decisive, something which applies to both scum and town.
There are more possibilities, but those three seem the most likely.
The next thing I noticed was his defense of Salsa, which was admittedly pretty weak (93 assuming I'm formatting that right?). As I have my suspicions about Salsa's slot, that feels a little suspect, but nothing extreme.
Next was Dum's trap, which, once again, shows very little about orctin and more about the main two the trap involved. One thing I'm curious about is what he meant by a "better vote choice". Saying it that way seems less like he's voting based on who I thinks is the most scummy and more like he's focusing on which wagons have formed. It might just be me reading too much into it, but I couldn't help but notice that.
The last thing he did before he stopped posting for a few days was inform Dum that he was considering casting his vote on him. As Jackson noted, expressing intent to vote without actually doing so does little to apply pressure to anyone, so I'm not sure if this was a genuine intimidation tactic or something meant to seem town-aligned without actually advancing the game forward.
Then there's his break, which could be lurking with an excuse or could be genuine. As someone with plenty of irl shit going on though, I'm inclined to believe him, cause lying about stuff like that just for an advantage in a game is really not cool.

Overall impression: Mixed. He's done a number of things that might suggest scum activity, but nothing concrete.

Fizz Raab

Spoiler:

Mentioned having previous experience but not much, and that she screwed up somehow in her last game.
One odd thing to me is her reasoning for voting Micc was due to the same reason I did, him throwing a vote out for no reason. What makes it odd is that she waited until nearly two full days after his post to find this suspicious. It's important to note that this was after both I and Salsa had voted for him, which tells me that she was waiting for a bandwagon to form before placing her vote.
When HEM commented on her post being overexplained, she reacted very strongly to it. Admittedly the reasoning for voting her was very weak, so I can understand some of her reaction, though it does feel a little much.
Her back and forth with HEM continued for some time and when he asked her what she thought was a scum move, she basically described his playing style yet didn't vote for him implying either that she still found Micc more suspicious or that who she votes for doesn't truly matter to her.
Her next post was a solid two days later and only came after James had voiced that she was one of the top individual suspects, though he didn't vote her. Again her reaction was very heated despite the fact that most of the attention from that post hadn't even been directed at her specifically. She then turned the heat towards HEM for his one-line spams, which, while that could be a scum tactic (see my analysis on him for more on that), by itself isn't really indicative of anything. She cited catching a scum in her last game for using the same tactic (I'd presume this has nothing to do with her screw up, but as I don't find looking at meta that doesn't directly involve the current game fun, I have no way to say for sure), which feels like she's confusing correlation with causation.

Overall impression: Feeling scummy. While there's a chance that being relatively new can explain some of her odd behavior, so much of it together with no real town indicators is making me feel kind of suspicious.

Salsabil Faria and JamesTheNames

Spoiler:

Since they share the same slot, I'll be covering both together since I feel like their similarities can tell us more about their role than an individual analysis.
Salsa's initial post was a simple vote with little valid reasoning behind it, nothing really suspect their since we were still in the RVS stage. She later swapped to Micc for finding his argument too much of a stretch (either scum trying to add to a wagon that might actually keep momentum or a townie who felt that was scum-indicative).
She posted a reply to one of my counterarguments to Micc that was simply her giving me "town points". Seems like she was trying to appear to be contributing (and possibly pocket me/help strengthen her own vote) without actually doing so in any meaningful capacity.
When Jackson pointed this out, she responded with some sarcasm (that feels very passive aggressive to me) before proceeding to her counterargument, which, while petty, isn't necessarily AI on its own.
Micc asked her what her response to one of my posts that seemed to vindicate him somewhat was, but got no response as she quit shortly after. She did admit to having exams so it's entirely possible that those were simply taking up too much time or it could be that she wasn't able to keep up with the pressure of her role and needed to hand it off. Since she's no longer here we can only speculate, but again, I'd like to believe that most people wouldn't make up irl issues to avoid losing a game.
That brings us to James who immediately began with a gut feeling read list and then did his best to stop the fight between HEM and myself. These actions could be town but could just as easily be scum pretending to be town.
He then posted a much longer analysis that I don't entirely understand certain points of:
-His read on orctin lists a number of posts that should've affected orctin's reads supposedly, but upon examining them myself I don't really see how they conflict with what orctin posted.
-His read on Dum has him begin with saying he understood the reason for Dum's gambit, but then he got confused as to why he voted for Micc during it (despite voting for Micc literally being the key point of the trap, without which it wouldn't have worked in any capacity).
-His read on Jackson feels like a "why are you targeting my slot?" post that would only work if Jackson hadn't already explained their reasoning as to why they didn't vote Dum instead.
-Asked NinjaStore to post more despite NinjaStore literally being camping for most of the game thus far which I don't get, especially with how many others have gone long periods without saying anything.
After this Jackson pointed out a very important detail (that he made no comment about them voting for his slot) which he responded to by more or less dodging the question and asking why Jackson hadn't voted for me or Dum instead. He then proceeded to vote for them which doesn't seem like it was based on actual logic and more like a revenge vote since he couldn't convince them to target someone else.
Their feud continued for some time, but eventually James stopped responding (not sure if it was due to being unable to counterargue or simply feeling like things were going nowhere, both seem entirely possible).
Fizz Raab then took issue with his read on her and HEM (which I went into detail on in her analysis), but he managed to shut down her argument using some fairly decent logic (though there is some issue with HEM's posting, it's not quite as simple as Fizz made it out to be).

Overall impression: Scum-leaning. There are a few more town indicators for this slot than for Fizz Raab, but there's still quite a bit fishy that I can't quite believe is town activity for the time being.

Dum

Spoiler:

He was the first to defend Micc and accused at least one of the 3 voters (myself, Salsa, and NinjaStore) of being scum. He also claimed that the person he voted on hadn't posted still but didn't change his vote until I pointed it out. Honestly, that feels like a genuine mistake and not AI (not important, only pointing this out in case someone thinks I'm ignoring this for whatever reason).
The next notable post was his analysis which defended me, but put focus on Micc and HEM for his "not so townie" (the closest he had to scum) reads. Despite putting Micc there, he proceeded to defend him to some extent, but then proceeded to vote for him as part of a trap. My guess would be that he didn't actually believe most of the scum related things he said about Micc and was more trying to distance himself to help his gambit work out better.
After orctin voted for Micc, he sprung his trap and accused orctin of being scum trying to hammer someone. A few problems with that being Micc pointing out that it wasn't actually a hammer before Dum posted, that the gambit relied on the victim to not pay attention to the actual votes, and that the victim in this case was orctin, who could've hammered Micc earlier but chose not to. Even assuming orctin did fall for the trap, these things allowed him to keep his cool and pretty easily shoot down Dum's accusations.
After I voted for Dum based on my conversation with Jackson, he didn't take it well and, similar to Salsa, wrote a rather passive aggressive response, though he calmed down fairly quickly after I explained myself.
He really hasn't posted anything here since which I do find somewhat odd given that I'm pretty sure I've seen his name pop up as posting in other games.

Overall impression: Mixed. I initially believed him to be town, then found his actions suspicious, then began believing he was scum, but having gone back and reread his posts along with other people's impressions of him, I've found that I can't really get a good grasp on what's scum/poor town behavior, what's newbie jitters, and what I'm just looking too hard at. Overall I'd say there's the slightest scum lean, but nothing extreme enough to tip the scales.

NinjaStore

Spoiler:

Claimed he found Micc suspicious but wouldn't vote him because not enough discussion had happened and greatly disliked the implication that we should just vote completely at random and hope we get it.
After coming back from his camping trip, he said he found Dum's gambit to be scummy and wondered why Micc waited to bring up the vote count until after someone voted.
Shortly after, he posted a short analysis pointing the FoS at Dum, Micc, and me, before voting for me on top of it. His analysis isn't entirely unwarranted, I'll admit I've said some things that could very easily be construed as scumplay. Obviously any attempt to defend myself with excuses such as inexperience or emotional issues will probably just seem like me grasping at straws, but one defense that I feel is valid is that fact that certain posts are linked to but summarized in a way that discourages following the link without providing proper context (the most egregious in my eyes is probably the one that linked to post 137 which makes it seem like I voted Dum for no reason despite "complimenting" his trap and then brought up not being afraid to be lynched completely unprompted, both of which are blatantly untrue if you paid attention to the full post in-context.
He has yet to respond to my response so analysis has to end there.

Overall impression: Town-leaning. Overall, despite voting for me, I don't actually think NS is scum trying to turn things on me. Based on what he's said and done, I get the feeling that he's town who picked up on a false lead and then let confirmation bias do the rest. There are a few slight scum behaviors (taking things out of context, use of buzzwords like "defensive", etc.) but these feel less like intentional scumplay and more like unintentionally aggressive townplay.

While I'm here, I feel like it's important to discuss my initial response to the accusations. I'll admit, I acted rashly on account of me not expecting NS to find me the most suspicious. Having been dealing with some irl stuff, I let my head get the best of me and likely made myself look more suspicious in the process. Obviously there's nothing I can really do to change that. What I can do though is put my money where my mouth is. I have a proposition that I'd like to make. I understand if you don't want to risk potentially falling into a mafia trap, so I'll stay silent on it if you'd prefer not to hear it, but if you're willing to hear me out, I'd gladly share, even if the consensus turns out to be a "no".

JacksonVirgo

Spoiler:

Micc

Spoiler:

humaneatingmonkey

Spoiler:

Last but certainly not least, we have HEM, the closest thing to a wild card all game. Obviously since dsjstr never posted there's nothing to read there, so I'll only focus on HEM.
One thing that's noticeable about his playstyle is just how little he puts into each post. It could simply be wanting to focus on getting his point across as efficiently as possible, but sometimes it feels like active lurking.
His first vote was for Micc, but if his later post is true, he didn't actually agree that Micc was scum, he was simply joining the most active wagon.
He brought up the idea that having day 1 go as long as possible was the most beneficial thing for town to do, which definitely seems like something legitimately helpful to the newbie townies. Afterwards, he linked to a very long guide to tells which, again, definitely feels more town oriented than scum.
One thing I find fascinating but dangerous is that HEM has a tendency to request more information out of others (such as in post 91 and 92), yet doesn't seem to like when people do the same to him (such as his response to 172 and his complete ignoring of what James said about him in 178).
It also seems like sometimes he votes on a dime, whereas others he needs significant reason to change votes. I wouldn't say this is a bad thing necessarily (for one thing it definitely seems like it would make it harder for scum to manipulate his vote), but definitely adds to his "wild card" vibe and makes me want to know more about the way he thinks.
It's also interesting that, despite saying multiple times that he found me scummy, he's never chosen to vote me and even given me advice on how to behave as town, which could mean any number of things.

Overall impression: The hardest to read of all. As I said, HEM definitely feels very wild-cardish, which makes him hard to read and even harder to predict. His desire for information yet closed-off nature on top of many of his micro-posts feeling less like contributions and more like keeping up the appearance that he's doing so and his tendency to try to get a reaction out of people could be either signs of scumplay or signs of an aggressive yet calculating townie. The things that have leaned me most to him being townie are his advice which is generally town-victory aligned and that his unpredictability hasn't been used in anyway that seems anti-town, but I acknowledge the possibility that these are simply smart plays.

Apologies for the length, there was just a lot of information to parse through. Hopefully, even if you don't necessarily agree with everything I say, this can help everyone look at things from new angles and maybe understand my thought process a bit.

navigatorv · Post Post #259 (ISO) » Tue May 25, 2021 7:04 pm

Also forgot to change my vote after going through everything
VOTE: Fizz Raab

humaneatingmonkey · Post Post #260 (ISO) » Tue May 25, 2021 7:12 pm

I miss Micc.
I think navigatorv is town.

JacksonVirgo · Post Post #261 (ISO) » Tue May 25, 2021 7:18 pm

In post 258, navigatorv wrote:(there are a few points that still make me raise an eyebrow at too),

Before I comment on anything else, can I ask what these points are

JacksonVirgo · Post Post #262 (ISO) » Tue May 25, 2021 7:18 pm

In post 260, humaneatingmonkey wrote:I think navigatorv is town.

I did say this earlier aha

humaneatingmonkey · Post Post #263 (ISO) » Tue May 25, 2021 7:21 pm

It's evident that he's putting an active effort to make reads and sort people. My only issue is his reads don't progress as naturally as I want it to be because he constantly flip-flops his reads according to who in the gamestate is the hottest viable wagon. This does not look good to me. But then, being caught changing your reads and still making an effort into committing reads points towards town. It could also be the anxiety he's talking about. He is also obviously scared of elimination, which does not look good to me. But it could also be the anxiety he's talking about. I think the vulnerability and self-awareness might be influencing my reads here, but that's where I'll put him now.

humaneatingmonkey · Post Post #264 (ISO) » Tue May 25, 2021 7:25 pm

In post 258, navigatorv wrote:One thing I find fascinating but dangerous is that HEM has a tendency to request more information out of others (such as in post 91 and 92), yet doesn't seem to like when people do the same to him (such as his response to 172 and his complete ignoring of what James said about him in 178).

I ask questions. You called me rude with no obvious goal and offputting. It's not the same.

JacksonVirgo · Post Post #265 (ISO) » Tue May 25, 2021 7:29 pm

In post 263, humaneatingmonkey wrote:It's evident that he's putting an active effort to make reads and sort people. My only issue is his reads don't progress as naturally as I want it to be because he constantly flip-flops his reads according to who in the gamestate is the hottest viable wagon. This does not look good to me. But then, being caught changing your reads and still making an effort into committing reads points towards town. It could also be the anxiety he's talking about. He is also obviously scared of elimination, which does not look good to me. But it could also be the anxiety he's talking about. I think the vulnerability and self-awareness might be influencing my reads here, but that's where I'll put him now.

See I think you're falling for a "fallacy", not sure if that's what you call it. Town would overall be more likely than scum to switch between wagons so much (especially newbie players). This read no longer works now that I've said this, obviously but scum in my experience stays put as much as they can do to AVOID being read as flip-flopping their reads. Scum want to have as valid looking perspective/progress as possible and this is counter that. I know that this does not apply 100% of the time but for now I think that logic is worth not being super suspicious of that specific portion of their content as of right now. Town can also be afraid of an elimination, except there's a fine difference between the way Town and scum both generally have their "tells". The key is being able to tell which is which.

humaneatingmonkey · Post Post #266 (ISO) » Tue May 25, 2021 7:32 pm

The only problem is the progression isn't a result of his own initiative/process, who he shows he has, but others' process.

navigatorv · Post Post #267 (ISO) » Tue May 25, 2021 7:34 pm

In post 261, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 258, navigatorv wrote:(there are a few points that still make me raise an eyebrow at too),
Before I comment on anything else, can I ask what these points are

Mostly small things related to what you will and won't vote for (someone who you don't think is scum but is an active hindrance for example). Nothing that I can really imagine causing any major conflicts in the future and I'm sure as I get more experience I might come to understand some of them.

navigatorv · Post Post #268 (ISO) » Tue May 25, 2021 7:39 pm

In post 263, humaneatingmonkey wrote:My only issue is his reads don't progress as naturally as I want it to be because he constantly flip-flops his reads according to who in the gamestate is the hottest viable wagon. This does not look good to me. But then, being caught changing your reads and still making an effort into committing reads points towards town. It could also be the anxiety he's talking about.

Honestly it's probably a combination of anxiety and the fact that I try to keep my theories as fluid as possible whenever a game involves reading real people. I don't really try to join the viable wagon, it just happens that most of the time, I tend to agree with what's been said by the majority.

navigatorv · Post Post #269 (ISO) » Tue May 25, 2021 7:43 pm

In post 264, humaneatingmonkey wrote:I ask questions. You called me rude with no obvious goal and offputting. It's not the same.

I did ask you to explain yourself better, but my post was partially skewed by my current mood and the fact that what you were saying did come off as rude to me. I am sorry about that and I'll try to take what you say in stride from now on

navigatorv · Post Post #270 (ISO) » Tue May 25, 2021 7:50 pm

Also going to bed now, but if you have any more questions or comments, let me know and I'll get to them tomorrow

NinjaStore · Post Post #271 (ISO) » Tue May 25, 2021 7:58 pm

That's quite a bit of analysis, navigatorv. It's a lot to process and cross reference with earlier posts, but I'll address this part for now.

On Salsabil Faria and JamesTheNames:

In post 258, navigatorv wrote: Since they share the same slot, I'll be covering both together since I feel like their similarities can tell us more about their role than an individual analysis.
Salsa's initial post was a simple vote with little valid reasoning behind it, nothing really suspect their since we were still in the RVS stage. She later swapped to Micc for finding his argument too much of a stretch (either scum trying to add to a wagon that might actually keep momentum or a townie who felt that was scum-indicative).
She posted a reply to one of my counterarguments to Micc that was simply her giving me "town points". Seems like she was trying to appear to be contributing (and possibly pocket me/help strengthen her own vote) without actually doing so in any meaningful capacity.
When Jackson pointed this out, she responded with some sarcasm (that feels very passive aggressive to me) before proceeding to her counterargument, which, while petty, isn't necessarily AI on its own.
Micc asked her what her response to one of my posts that seemed to vindicate him somewhat was, but got no response as she quit shortly after. She did admit to having exams so it's entirely possible that those were simply taking up too much time or it could be that she wasn't able to keep up with the pressure of her role and needed to hand it off. Since she's no longer here we can only speculate, but again, I'd like to believe that most people wouldn't make up irl issues to avoid losing a game.
That brings us to James who immediately began with a gut feeling read list and then did his best to stop the fight between HEM and myself. These actions could be town but could just as easily be scum pretending to be town.
He then posted a much longer analysis that I don't entirely understand certain points of:
-His read on orctin lists a number of posts that should've affected orctin's reads supposedly, but upon examining them myself I don't really see how they conflict with what orctin posted.
-His read on Dum has him begin with saying he understood the reason for Dum's gambit, but then he got confused as to why he voted for Micc during it (despite voting for Micc literally being the key point of the trap, without which it wouldn't have worked in any capacity).
-His read on Jackson feels like a "why are you targeting my slot?" post that would only work if Jackson hadn't already explained their reasoning as to why they didn't vote Dum instead.
-
Asked NinjaStore to post more despite NinjaStore literally being camping for most of the game thus far which I don't get, especially with how many others have gone long periods without saying anything.

After this Jackson pointed out a very important detail (that he made no comment about them voting for his slot) which he responded to by more or less dodging the question and asking why Jackson hadn't voted for me or Dum instead. He then proceeded to vote for them which doesn't seem like it was based on actual logic and more like a revenge vote since he couldn't convince them to target someone else.
Their feud continued for some time, but eventually James stopped responding (not sure if it was due to being unable to counterargue or simply feeling like things were going nowhere, both seem entirely possible).
Fizz Raab then took issue with his read on her and HEM (which I went into detail on in her analysis), but he managed to shut down her argument using some fairly decent logic (though there is some issue with HEM's posting, it's not quite as simple as Fizz made it out to be).

James' question was:

Please post more. Why didn't you put Dum on E-2 in 165? Why didn't you vote for Micc after your 44?

I thought it was a dumb question so I didn't bother answering. I probably should have pointed that out at the time. The answer to James' second question should have been obvious. I had already made it pretty clear that I wasn't willing to put anyone at E-2 so early in day 1.

I didn't cast a vote in 165 because I was waiting to see what Micc would have to say and hadn't decided who was scummier between Micc and Dum yet. Casting a vote for one of them at that time anyway would have probably been a good idea in retrospect. I should be more proactive with my voting rather than hanging back. I eventually did put a vote on Micc since he didn't answer.

Bothering to put in all this analysis work in the first place does earn you some town points. It doesn't exonerate you, but I'm switching votes to a higher priority scum read for now.

UNVOTE: navigatorv
VOTE: Micc

NinjaStore · Post Post #272 (ISO) » Tue May 25, 2021 8:08 pm

In post 258, navigatorv wrote:What I can do though is put my money where my mouth is. I have a proposition that I'd like to make. I understand if you don't want to risk potentially falling into a mafia trap, so I'll stay silent on it if you'd prefer not to hear it, but if you're willing to hear me out, I'd gladly share, even if the consensus turns out to be a "no".

I'm curious. Shoot.

humaneatingmonkey · Post Post #273 (ISO) » Tue May 25, 2021 8:51 pm

We lynch between Dum, JamesTheNames, and Fizz Raab today. Everything one else could stay to Day 2.

JacksonVirgo · Post Post #274 (ISO) » Tue May 25, 2021 9:51 pm

In post 273, humaneatingmonkey wrote:We lynch between Dum, JamesTheNames, and Fizz Raab today. Everything one else could stay to Day 2.

I do not like setting up eliminations. But I do agree this is likely where we lie